American Bands vs English Bands - which is better?

[magtrev]

England bands wise, but the US has Belinda Carlisle which tips the over music scales back in to balance.

 

[-VC-]

Or courtesy of my bigfooty profile:

 

[DemonErrol1964 - dees]

Kiss should have been added the the Yank list, Biggest band going in the 80's.

 

[StuPendus]

Kiss should have been added the the Yank list, Biggest band going in the 80's.

Although I bought their first album, they were the Villi Manilli of the 80s.

Couldn't sing, couldn't play, couldn't act.

All I have to put up is their song Shandy..................I mean really.

 

[Leaping Lindner]

Are we talking bigger or better?? Bigger defines record sales to me and crap such as Matchbox 20, Nickelback, Coldplay etc sell stacks of records.
If we are are talking better here is a few US bands you neglected to mention. Not saying that makes the yanks better but does add weight to the arguement

The Velvet Underground
The Stooges
The New York Dolls
The Ramones
Dead Kennedys
Sonic Youth
The Pixies (the best band of the late 80's)

 

[StuPendus]

No matter who you name or where they come from, in my mind it's who's been the biggest influence on these bands.


And in the end it will only come back to the greatest of them all.


4 lads from Liverpool.

 

[Dandy_GO]

No matter who you name or where they come from, in my mind it's who's been the biggest influence on these bands.


And in the end it will only come back to the greatest of them all.


4 lads from Liverpool.

Hey now, I really like Echo and the Bunnymen too, but greatest of ALL TIME?

 

[SunKing]

No matter who you name or where they come from, in my mind it's who's been the biggest influence on these bands.


And in the end it will only come back to the greatest of them all.


4 lads from Liverpool.

Agreed.
With The Beatles being english the yanks have no chance.

 

[tribey]

Or courtesy of my bigfooty profile:

You're a beautiful young man [m8].

 

[noddy]

Always thought disco music was kind of funky.


But for me the Beatles win hands down

From America i did have a few albums of the Byrds

 

[StuPendus]

Hey now, I really like Echo and the Bunnymen too, but greatest of ALL TIME?

Tell me a group who 40 years after disbanding are still remembered as not only being responsible for the whole band scene, but influenced so many others who influenced others who...............well you should get my drift by now.

Tell me other song writers who's work was covered by so many other artists of all genres.

Tell me any artist that have had 10 songs in the top 10 at the same time, or who had the same song at #1 for 12 months.

Tell me a group who's songs never sounded the same.

Tell me an artist who had nearly half the city see them arrive.

Their popularity made it so others could do their own thing and not have studios pick their songs.


That to me is greatness. Now you might not like them or be around when they were popular to remember but no one has ever and will, in this disposable society, ever be again.

 

[-VC-]

*whoosh*

There goes a joke.

It went over your head, just in case you want to try and find it later.

 

[Leaping Lindner]

............I'm pretty sure Buddy Holly was a yank.

 

[Dandy_GO]

failure to get an admittedly pretty shit joke

Relax, Stu. I was brought up on The Beatles.

 

[StuPendus]

I laughed.

 

[relapse]

Tell me a group who 40 years after disbanding are still remembered as not only being responsible for the whole band scene, but influenced so many others who influenced others who...............well you should get my drift by now.

Tell me other song writers who's work was covered by so many other artists of all genres.

Tell me any artist that have had 10 songs in the top 10 at the same time, or who had the same song at #1 for 12 months.

Tell me a group who's songs never sounded the same.

Tell me an artist who had nearly half the city see them arrive.

Their popularity made it so others could do their own thing and not have studios pick their songs.


That to me is greatness. Now you might not like them or be around when they were popular to remember but no one has ever and will, in this disposable society, ever be again.

I have to agree that the beatles will be remembered as the greatest of all time.

I think even 50 years from now the Beatles will still be immortal and Elvis will still be the king of male solo artists.

 

[Crow-mo]

Tell me a group who 40 years after disbanding are still remembered as not only being responsible for the whole band scene, but influenced so many others who influenced others who...............well you should get my drift by now.

Brian wilson. without pet sounds there is no Sgt Pepper.

Tell me other song writers who's work was covered by so many other artists of all genres.

Bob Dylan.

Tell me any artist that have had 10 songs in the top 10 at the same time, or who had the same song at #1 for 12 months.

presume you are talking about recently? if so, that's a function of technology nothing more.

Tell me a group who's songs never sounded the same.

but they did. and if you want to talk re-invention, Bowie is your man.

Tell me an artist who had nearly half the city see them arrive.

wow, that's relevant.

Their popularity made it so others could do their own thing and not have studios pick their songs.

what?

That to me is greatness. Now you might not like them or be around when they were popular to remember but no one has ever and will, in this disposable society, ever be again.

now look, they're unquestionably going to be right at the top of many people's thinking, but your evidence and logic needs work.

 

[Mego Red]

Brian wilson. without pet sounds there is no Sgt Pepper.

Sure, influential. But one album, then he went mad. And the fact that the Beatles were influenced by Wilson doesn't mean much in and of itself; even Shakespeare has influences. And the reach of the Beatles influence is clearly broader.

Bob Dylan.

Not a bad example - but according to their own websites, Dylan has been covered 5870 times, while (according to the Guinness Book of Records) Yesterday has almost that number of covers alone (now approaching 4000).

presume you are talking about recently? if so, that's a function of technology nothing more.

True - but in the 60 year history of popular music, it is only the last five years that have seen technology smash apart the traditional means of measuring sales success. If we're comparing the Beatles to their peers (i.e. popular musicians from 1950 to 2000), then this is a valuable stat; if you're comparing them to Kanye it's less useful.

but they did. and if you want to talk re-invention, Bowie is your man.

Ah, maybe. But the wider cultural influence of Bowie's reinventions was pretty minimal. Madonna continually cherry picking the best producers and reinventing her sound to stay popular long after most performers use-by date has passed is probably more impressive.

wow, that's relevant.

Hey, if we're talking cultural impact, that's pretty damn impressive. As much as I can't stand Andre Rieu, it' still impressive when he pulls in the crowds and demonstrates the widespread influence of a tool with a mullet playing the fiddle.

what?

I think he meant they finally demonstrated the financial power of an artist who created their own music and put the labels in a situation where they didn't just completely make over artists and put them into a new box. But that's drawing a long bow, and doesn't really hold up.

now look, they're unquestionably going to be right at the top of many people's thinking, but your evidence and logic needs work.

I think, however you measure it, they would be number one, but you would probably have six or seven US bands in the list of the top ten, IMO.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Dont forget QUEEN; the second best british band ever.

 

[StuPendus]

Brian wilson. without pet sounds there is no Sgt Pepper.

That's crap and until you can give me an actual quote from one of them that they did it for that reason then your argument has no foundation. Infact Wilson was quoted in a 70s Rolling Stone magazine that he created Pet Sounds to try and top Rubber Soul. No Rubber Soul no Pet Sounds.

Bob Dylan.

Good try but again no cigar.

presume you are talking about recently? if so, that's a function of technology nothing more.

No I'm quoting from radio station 5AD's top pop charts from the era.
Today's ratings are all about record companies buying their own product to create hits.

but they did. and if you want to talk re-invention, Bowie is your man.

Not sure where your coming from with this re-invention talk but the other is
although subjective it's true to those with a musical ear.

wow, that's relevant.

I guess you had to put something in there oracle but it was at the time for over 500000 people.

what?

Before they came along and Brian Epstein had it inserted into their recording contract with EMI that they would be able to pick their own singles if Love Me Do exceeded a certain sales figure, (What that figure was is still a mystery), record companies and studio bosses world wide would pick an artist's single and which side of that single would be the A side and which the B side.

now look, they're unquestionably going to be right at the top of many people's thinking, but your evidence and logic needs work.

now look your good cop and bad cop routine with yourself and Kristof is entertaining, but people are beginning to talk.

 

[Leaping Lindner]

.....

Tell me other song writers who's work was covered by so many other artists of all genres.
....

.

Burt Bacharach and Hal David

 

[maccas_no1]

England bands wise, but the US has Belinda Carlisle which tips the over music scales back in to balance.

AMEN Brother, Belinda Carlisle *drools*

 

[StuPendus]

Dont forget QUEEN; the second best british band ever.

Think bands like Cream and Led Zeplin might argue.

 

[StuPendus]

Burt Bacharach and Hal David

Not too sure how many rock bands covered any of their rock hits.

 

[Crow-mo]

Sure, influential. But one album, then he went mad. And the fact that the Beatles were influenced by Wilson doesn't mean much in and of itself; even Shakespeare has influences. And the reach of the Beatles influence is clearly broader.

yeah that's fine, but it was only one example. you should read up on what McCartney himself says about Wilson's influences, which are shall we say not consistent with your position. Brian Wilson is widely credited as one of the most influential artists ever, musically. Hell Leonard Bernstein contends that Wilson and Stavinsky are the 2 greatest composers of the 20th century.

ps. calling Pet Sounds one album is like calling hendrix at woodstock one performance. technically correct, but misguided.

Not a bad example - but according to their own websites, Dylan has been covered 5870 times, while (according to the Guinness Book of Records) Yesterday has almost that number of covers alone (now approaching 4000).

which of course neglects the argument about whether Yesterday was actually written by McCartney. not to mention, that there is no way in hell yesterday has had 4000 released cover versions to the charts.

again, Dylan is widely considered the most covered artist ever which might have something to do with the fact he never let his own vocal inabilities to hold back his writing!

True - but in the 60 year history of popular music, it is only the last five years that have seen technology smash apart the traditional means of measuring sales success. If we're comparing the Beatles to their peers (i.e. popular musicians from 1950 to 2000), then this is a valuable stat; if you're comparing them to Kanye it's less useful.

its all about context, the little factoid was presented completely out of context. that's all. but most importantly popularity is only part of the equation, critical acclaim and influence are as relevant. otherwise we will be declaring the Big Mac the finest culinary achievement of the 20th century

Ah, maybe. But the wider cultural influence of Bowie's reinventions was pretty minimal. Madonna continually cherry picking the best producers and reinventing her sound to stay popular long after most performers use-by date has passed is probably more impressive.

erm what the????

Hey, if we're talking cultural impact, that's pretty damn impressive. As much as I can't stand Andre Rieu, it' still impressive when he pulls in the crowds and demonstrates the widespread influence of a tool with a mullet playing the fiddle.

I wasn't moved by Yanni at the acropolis either.

however Simon & Garfunkle playing central park in front of how many people? estimates run from 400 - 750 thousand people. almost certainly closer to the former, but still...

I think he meant they finally demonstrated the financial power of an artist who created their own music and put the labels in a situation where they didn't just completely make over artists and put them into a new box. But that's drawing a long bow, and doesn't really hold up.

the attribution certainly does not hold up.

I think, however you measure it, they would be number one, but you would probably have six or seven US bands in the list of the top ten, IMO.

there going to be very close to the top, no question. christ knows the whole thread is a slightly ******ed comparison at the best of times, however when your evidence shows your lack of historical reference more than anything else its worth highlighting.