Society/Culture Is the United States the world's greatest country?
- Thread starter Dan26
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- Thread starter
- #77
I'd argue America has done a lot more "good" for world peace than "bad."
They stand for peace and freedom. To argue America is not a peace loving country goes against the very principles that define them. They've done more for world peace and freedom than any country will likely ever do in our lifetime.
And unfortunately sometimes that means getting involved.
The war on terror, you say? THEY were the ones attacked. Unprovoked, too.
The ideal outcome is to rid the wolrd of islamic extremists, right? Fight the problem as it's source. What do you suggest they do? Walk away?
What's your solution?
I'm not even going to bother.
It's not funny though. How you completely disregard the horrendous loss of innocent life in unnecessary wars initiated by the US, is quite unfathomable.
Communism, Oil.... how many innocent lives lost?
Mate, if you associate that alongside greatness then you're not a very good person. In fact you're a s**t person.
I find it hard to believe anyone could think like you, so completely ignorant or so prejudice against anything or anyone who conflicts with your construct of right and wrong. It's not even that though - the problem is you even bother to retort the loss of many thousands of lives, in unnecessary wars with ideologically (looney hannity's america talk) driven crap.
You're not stupid, that much is obvious.
However perceptively you're weak. To perceive, as you have (and you obviously believe it, which doesn't make it any better)
1. the iraq was about terrorism - and it was necessary
2. to substantiate killing (hundreds of) thousands as acceptable because 'america is fighting for freedom'. spare me dan. that's just looney crap. they're fighting for themselves. and not always for the right reason.
3. war should be the last resort always. it's destructive and evil. you advocate it so willingly, almost like it's a toy.
I'm not even going to bother.
And we are better for it.
- Banned
- #80
^^ America were starting wars long before Islamic extremists came onto the scene.
I don't really give a s**t one way or another, but that statement you made was absurd.
Great, as in the non-pejorative sense? Yeah, i can buy that.
I don't really give a s**t one way or another, but that statement you made was absurd.
Great, as in the non-pejorative sense? Yeah, i can buy that.
- Thread starter
- #81
I'm not even going to bother.
It's not funny though. How you completely disregard the horrendous loss of innocent life in unnecessary wars initiated by the US, is quite unfathomable.
Communism, Oil.... how many innocent lives lost?
Mate, if you associate that alongside greatness then you're not a very good person. In fact you're a s**t person.
where did I associate the loss of life with greatness? Are you insane? I hate it when people who can't win arguments use false premises or take one small thing that was said and draw it out on its longest bow to deliberatley interpret it differently to how the origonal person intended, to suit whatever they want to say.
It's a typical ploy used in internet arguments, usually used by the struggling participant. And I'm not stupjd enough to give your insulting reply any credence.
And if the struggling participant in the argument continues to flounder, you can bet the old, "attack the poster" ploy will come out next.
America have done a hell of a more for peace and freedom than they have against it, that's for sure.
Ben the Gooner
Stand by Hird
I'd say the team that wasn't beaten was the hardest to beat.
As for music, Metal is regarded as being spawned from Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Judas Priest and Iron Maiden before bands like Metallica, Slayer and Testament got involved across the pond.
And for the OP, America is too conservative and litigious for me to consider living there permanently. I loved travelling there, and the people I met were incredibly nice, but I couldn't spend my life there.
Oh what a load of s**t.
Korea, Vietnam - abysmal failures. Iraq looks poised to follow the same path. The suggestion that they where attacked unprovoked is laughable. That was a product of the sins of Americas past coming back to haunt them. America created the monster that Afghanistan is by supplying them in a covert war with Russia during the Afghan war. Hell - even Saddam was a product of America.
Dan,
1. they're fighting for freedom, they stand for it blah blah
2. you've suggested or at worst implied this is part of their appeal, as a nation of 'greatness'
3. you countered a point about iraq/vietnam, or whatever with the crap about islamic extremists and fighting for freedom. which it clearly wrong, on a number of levels.
the actions are destructive, not constructive in any way.
- Thread starter
- #85
Anything America has been involved in, is with the intention of obtaining peace and freedom. It's especially important to realize that it is they who have helped preserve ours and lots of the world's freedom, and who also sacrifice the most so that we can live in relative "peace."
Others have tried to conquer them and the nations they are friends with. The powers that started World War I, the Nazis and Japan in World War II, or the communist Soviets that kept Eastern Europe after World War II through 1990. It was the communists that took over China by war, that invaded South Korea, that took over Tibet, and that started "wars of liberation" worldwide causing the Cold War, even though those wars liberated no one. Their victories actually enslaved people holding them in China, Cuba, Cambodia, Vietnam etc.
It was America and their allies, who resisted and defeated these conquering attempts. In every case, they gave back to the people who were beaten their own freedom and peace. Is not that some cause for greatness?
After those wins, rather than enslave they liberated. Whether it be the Germans, Japanese, Italians or French, the entire Eastern Bloc of Europe, all of North Africa, El Salvador, I think the Phillipines (correct me if I'm wrong), Iraq and hopefully soon with Afghanistan. Helping to establish their own freedom. Lots of other miliatreis in histroy have used their armys for conqust and enslavement.
Just ask yourself - if America did not get involved in the various wars they have been involved in over the last 100 years, do you think the modern day world would be a better place?
Too many people take the freedom we enjoy here in Australia for granted.
- Thread starter
- #86
Well I totally disagree. To direct you to the question I asked in the post above:
if America did not get involved in the various wars they have been involved in over the last 100 years, do you think the modern day world would be a better place?
If you think it WOULD be better, tell us how. What kind of world would it be?
- Banned
- #87
I can't believe you brought up El Salvador as an example of American "freedom". The freedom for death squads to rape and slaughter nuns, that's about the only "freedom" America brought to El Salvador.
But, whatever, I'm not interested in having this discussion. America has given rise to a lot of good, it has also inflicted untold misery and suffering on the world. Like most things in this life, America is neither good nor bad, it is a very complex story with far too many nuances to categorise into your simplistic black and white view of things.
But, whatever, I'm not interested in having this discussion. America has given rise to a lot of good, it has also inflicted untold misery and suffering on the world. Like most things in this life, America is neither good nor bad, it is a very complex story with far too many nuances to categorise into your simplistic black and white view of things.
- Thread starter
- #88
America has inflicted untold misery and suffering on the world? LOL!
To once again direct the question asked of Apollo:
if America did not get involved in the various wars they have been involved in over the last 100 years, do you think the modern day world would be a better place?
If you think it WOULD be better, tell us how. What kind of world would it be?
Untold misery and suffering? is there any nation more hell bent on spreading peace and freedom? Other nations may be peaceful, but what other nation has actively spread it to the extent of the U.S?
Don't make thing up. You say the words "black and white view of things" to make it seem I've only had a black or white view all along, which of course is rubbish, with such a complex question. America has always had it's problems.
It's another internet arguing "tactic.".... say something that makes it seem like the person you are arguing against had that view all along just because you said it.
What a sensible comment!
The only thing I would add is that if you are going to have a dominant power in the world, you could do an awful lot worse than the US and you wouldn't find too many better. A mix of good and bad is natural for a powerful nation.
- Banned
- #90
^^ I thought you'd like it
How many millions of people can you kill in the name of Freedom before the whole concept just becomes an absurd and sick parody of itself?
Did America bring "peace" and "freedom" to Vietnam, Laos, or Cambodia? They sure killed a lot of people, and you can argue until the cows come home as to whether the communist threat was real or whether the actions there were justified, but what you can't say is that they brought either peace or freedom to the region. Ditto with Latin America, you don't seem to familiar with the horrors and crimes American actions and policies wrought upon country after country in Latin America; like Guatemala, America inflicted a huge amount of violence on that country simply to protect the interest of the Standard Fruit Company. That had **** all to do with peace and/or freedom.
The foreign policy and national interests of ANY country is going to be deeply flawed and a lot more nuanced than simply saying that you are bringing freedom to the world, that is a propaganda line, not any realistic evaluation of what America has or has not done in the world.
How many millions of people can you kill in the name of Freedom before the whole concept just becomes an absurd and sick parody of itself?
Did America bring "peace" and "freedom" to Vietnam, Laos, or Cambodia? They sure killed a lot of people, and you can argue until the cows come home as to whether the communist threat was real or whether the actions there were justified, but what you can't say is that they brought either peace or freedom to the region. Ditto with Latin America, you don't seem to familiar with the horrors and crimes American actions and policies wrought upon country after country in Latin America; like Guatemala, America inflicted a huge amount of violence on that country simply to protect the interest of the Standard Fruit Company. That had **** all to do with peace and/or freedom.
The foreign policy and national interests of ANY country is going to be deeply flawed and a lot more nuanced than simply saying that you are bringing freedom to the world, that is a propaganda line, not any realistic evaluation of what America has or has not done in the world.
- Thread starter
- #91
^^ I thought you'd like it
How many millions of people can you kill in the name of Freedom before the whole concept just becomes an absurd and sick parody of itself?
Did America bring "peace" and "freedom" to Vietnam, Laos, or Cambodia? They sure killed a lot of people, and you can argue until the cows come home as to whether the communist threat was real or whether the actions there were justified, but what you can't say is that they brought either peace or freedom to the region. Ditto with Latin America, you don't seem to familiar with the horrors and crimes American actions and policies wrought upon country after country in Latin America; like Guatemala, America inflicted a huge amount of violence on that country simply to protect the interest of the Standard Fruit Company. That had **** all to do with peace and/or freedom.
The foreign policy and national interests of ANY country is going to be deeply flawed and a lot more nuanced than simply saying that you are bringing freedom to the world, that is a propaganda line, not any realistic evaluation of what America has or has not done in the world.
So, to repeat, if America did not get involved in the various wars (or any sort of conflict) they have been involved in over the last 100 years, do you think the modern day world would be a better place?
If you think it WOULD be better, tell us how. What kind of world would it be?
- Banned
- #92
Be buggered if I know. I don't deal in hypothetical's. A different world, obviously. It wouldn't be better world or a worse world, it would just be a different world.
A difficult question to answer. For all we know the world could be a much better place - on the flipside it could be far worse. The suggestion that Americas motives have been purely altruisic in it's recent military history is entirely naive. Much of Americas engagements have been to the advantage of America. They certainly did not care in the slightest for the various countries occupants they where engaging in.
Tex_21
Norm Smith Medallist
I think Dan greatly misinterprets the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan. As Afghanistan is little more than a country on paper - it is just an area within some imaginary lines where a large number of independant tribes live - trying to push "American democracy" is unlikely to ever work.
A similar situation in Iraq, as differering tribal and religous elements will keep Iraq fighting with each other, and those trying to force a Western society on them for many many decades, with religous in-fighting between Sunni's and Shi-ites making the Troubles look like a game of paintball, and I believe America (both Bush and Obama) have not realised that both of these countries do not want to be Western. They are happy (in the most part) to live life in simjple surrounds, worship their deities in their way and enjo being a member of whichever group they feel the closest affliation with, whether that be Iraqi, Afghani (unlikely), Sunni, Shi-ite, Kurd etc.
A similar situation in Iraq, as differering tribal and religous elements will keep Iraq fighting with each other, and those trying to force a Western society on them for many many decades, with religous in-fighting between Sunni's and Shi-ites making the Troubles look like a game of paintball, and I believe America (both Bush and Obama) have not realised that both of these countries do not want to be Western. They are happy (in the most part) to live life in simjple surrounds, worship their deities in their way and enjo being a member of whichever group they feel the closest affliation with, whether that be Iraqi, Afghani (unlikely), Sunni, Shi-ite, Kurd etc.
Geez there is a lot of dumb arse anti American morons on here. For every stereotypical dimwitted, myopic and self centred American that the rest of the self righteous world likes to portray them as, there are plenty of smart, intelligent and astute Americans who are absolute progressives. The country didn't get to where it is by being full of stupid people.
Dan26 is right, what they have achieved for western countries and the freedoms we all enjoy has been immense and really middle class pseudo anti establishment types from the comfort of their keyboards should really get a clue about geopolitics over the last 100 years before they sprout of their fashionable anti American sentiment. No country in the history of the world has ever been so powerful, yet used their power with such restraint on the peoples/countries they could easily enslave or destroy.
America clearly has it's issues, but seriously, put in perspective, America's contribution over the last 50-100 years to what the world has and is today dwarfs any other country by a long long way.
Dan26 is right, what they have achieved for western countries and the freedoms we all enjoy has been immense and really middle class pseudo anti establishment types from the comfort of their keyboards should really get a clue about geopolitics over the last 100 years before they sprout of their fashionable anti American sentiment. No country in the history of the world has ever been so powerful, yet used their power with such restraint on the peoples/countries they could easily enslave or destroy.
America clearly has it's issues, but seriously, put in perspective, America's contribution over the last 50-100 years to what the world has and is today dwarfs any other country by a long long way.
cartwright
Brownlow Medallist
What? the land of the free?
who ever told you that was your enemy ...
Seriously ... America, has not done anything that hasn't benefited her in some way. Each war, each country it has destabilized or invaded has occurred for a reason.
Although, I can see the good things they have contributed to the world -- in terms of culture (sometimes), technology & innovation etc.
As opposed to everyone else who stands for war and slavery?
Without doubt the most ridiculous post I have ever read on BF.
Falchoon
Brownlow Medallist
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Falchoon
Brownlow Medallist
- Feb 15, 2002
- 29,575
- 10,763
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Bluestar Airlines, Anacott Steel
