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Kouta or Judd

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i would honestly be stunned if anyone that actually watched pre-reco kouta would think judd is better


Judd is better.

Kouta's best may well have been better than anyones, but that was not what Kouta bought to the table week after week.
I recall plenty of shockers from Kouta and was often surprised that someone of his standing could not get into the our best players on the ground for weeks on end.

Yes, we've compacted Kouta's highlights neatly into our minds but over a ten year period I'd take Judd every day of the week.
 
Kouta was an absolute freak. Loved going to watch him at Princes Park just dominating everyone. The one handed pick ups, big marks and just about doing everything and better than anyone else. There was a stat on footy classified of all time contested possession games and he had about 5 or 6 in the top 10.

Kills me every time I think about him injuring his knee in 2000, we could have won the flag and he would have won the brownlow. Also when he did his knee in the final against Richmond in 2001 and I can remember the sick feeling in my stomach, he was never the same after that, would have been the best in the modern era if it wasn't for that
 
Judd is the better player. His speed and strength is incredible, best player I have seen in traffic, also more agressive in his attack on the ball and player. The only knock some people have on him is his kicking, although it is still very good. Kouta's best was unbeleivable, but the Juddster does not have too many below par games.
 
Would go with Kouta.

Nothing shits me more than people always talking about just Voss, Hird & Buckley. Remember hearing from one commentator once that if he could have any it would be Hird and Kouta because they could win a game for their side off their own boot with 5 minutes of magic.

As for Judd, his 2nd last season at WC was up there IMO with Kouta of 2000, or as close as anyone has gone. One game against Essendon at Subi sticks in my head and I've always hoped he can do it again in the navy blue. Dont get me wrong Judd has been great since coming to us

Only reason ppl rated bucks, hird and voss higher is simple
they all have brownlows
You can never make everybody happy
Robert harvey sensational player, won almost everything the game has to offer.
is he regarded as high as the voss and hirds?
no because they have premierships,
as good as bucks maybe, but he was a captain of 2 grand finals.
why is kouta not up there?
brownlow, injuries and not getting the norm smith medal sums it up.
People always judg eplayers by premierships, and while its true most champions would trade their medallion for a flag, individual feats arent recognised until u achieve foorys highest honor, what everybody plays for a flag.
so why isnt kouta held higher than bucks, he has a flag bucks doesnt.
Be an interesting stat to see who avergaed more possessions and goals per game between all 4
bucks hird, voss and kouta

kouta will be remembered for his finals appearances and amazing hands
the rest are remembered for some individual awards that at times are blundered
ie shane woewodin
 

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He showed glimpses after his first knee injury but was rushed back in and did his knee again and that was it for him. He lost his explosive pace and acceleration.

even after he tore every ligament in both knees he then became the best clearance player in the league for two years.
 
You may be easily insulted. The point is that Wally Lewis controlled his environment and stood out like a beacon in his era. His vision and ability to do exactly the right thing at the right time and have the crowd just waiting for something brilliant to happen were unsurpassed. Jezza was like that for me. Just walked tall and made us wait for the magic to just unfold.

Analogies are not insults.

An aside: I'm not a rugby person, but didn't he have the nickname "nobody", because of the saying "Nobody's perfect"?
 
Koutoufides' 2000 season may have had the best individual season either have had, yet I'm going to have go with Judd overall.

Judd was a superstar and a gun midfielder from day one.

Kouta was a wingman.

Agree with Massive Blue that Judd was mentally tougher, more consistent and a better leader than Koutoufides.

Kouta was just going through the motions after his Father passed away.

A great Carlton leader in Kernahan still dominated after he lost his Mother in 1995.

Judd is incredibly driven.

Total professional.

Has already shown more leadership than Koutoufides who didn't even remonstrate with Croad who knocked out Russell.

I'm still filthy on Kouta for running away from that bump.

Judd remonstrated with Maxwell after he took that cheap shot at Robinson in 2009.
 
Judd. Judd's consistency. Judd's toughness over a number of years. Judd.
No-one has been on the receiving end of the incredible skill and power of Kouta more than Essendon supporters. The only problem is his reign was too brief; in reality he had 2 outstanding seasons, several good ones and a few ordinary ones. Judd has been doing what he is doing ever since he started, he just never has down periods. He have an average game here and there but you just know he will come back with a great game. Judd's consistency gets it for mine.
 
Kouta.

Think all things Judd.......contested footy, burst of speed, disposal under pressure, inability to be tackled, ability to turn a game on its ear in 10 ins of footy.................then add a healthy dose of superiority overhead against any opponent.

One of the great tragedies of the modern game was Kouta doing his knee. So Judd may come out ahead because of longevity, but, if we ask at their absolute best.......KOUTA!!!:thumbsu:
 
why is kouta not up there?
Same reason why when the media discuss Brown and Riewoldt they always compare back to Carey.......very little mention of Kernahan.

There is a key word in that sentence that begins with an "m".;)
 
People have quickly forgotten how good Judd was at 23 and in 2007.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/C/Chris_Judd.html#200718

[YOUTUBE]51jggo0Y2oA[/YOUTUBE]

Kouta wasn't playing that sort of footy at 20 years of age.

[YOUTUBE]Pa3aUqPky74[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]0iXj2ufyeF0[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]6XfP47BqLXM[/YOUTUBE]

Clinton Grybas. :(

The injury argument applies to Judd too.
 
No-one has been on the receiving end of the incredible skill and power of Kouta more than Essendon supporters. The only problem is his reign was too brief; in reality he had 2 outstanding seasons, several good ones and a few ordinary ones. Judd has been doing what he is doing ever since he started, he just never has down periods. He have an average game here and there but you just know he will come back with a great game. Judd's consistency gets it for mine.

Kouta wasnt a james hird who played all his career like the legend he is, but the injuries didnt help kouta.
The problem with kouta was between 1995 and 2000 he didnt maintain his form, then he peaked in 2000 and got that fricken injury.
You guys probably wish he had played in that prelim to avenge the year before, lol:thumbsu:
 

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Same reason why when the media discuss Brown and Riewoldt they always compare back to Carey.......very little mention of Kernahan.

There is a key word in that sentence that begins with an "m".;)
Can never understand why kernahans rarely mentioned,
For starters kernahan averaged 11 kicks a game along with careys average of 11.4 a game.
Kernahan averaged 7 marks a game next to careys 6.7.
7 times in his 11 year career stepphen kernahan had 150 plus marks in a season.
and he was the afls longest serving captain, as well as first year captain, premiership and goal kicking award along with the best and fairest.
now how many other players have done so.
Why is kernahan not mentioned in the same breath, was it because he came to carlton at age 23 whereas brown, carey, hird, franklin, riewoldt and pav all came to their respective clubs at a young age of say 17/18.:(
 
Can never understand why kernahans rarely mentioned,
For starters kernahan averaged 11 kicks a game along with careys average of 11.4 a game.
Kernahan averaged 7 marks a game next to careys 6.7.
7 times in his 11 year career stepphen kernahan had 150 plus marks in a season.
and he was the afls longest serving captain, as well as first year captain, premiership and goal kicking award along with the best and fairest.
now how many other players have done so.
Why is kernahan not mentioned in the same breath, was it because he came to carlton at age 23 whereas brown, carey, hird, franklin, riewoldt and pav all came to their respective clubs at a young age of say 17/18.:(

Imagine if he had come to Carlton as an 18 year old and played another 80 games. Could very have kicked 900+ goals. Bradley would have smashed Tuck's record.
 
Imagine if he had come to Carlton as an 18 year old and played another 80 games. Could very have kicked 900+ goals. Bradley would have smashed Tuck's record.
Honestly the amount of times I thought that same thought through.
If he had come around say 1982 as a 19 year old, played another 80 to 85 games for an average of 2. whatever it was that would have put him close to a thousand career goals.
bradley would have won a brownlow or two.
U r spot on champ:thumbsu:
If only and we can imaginne in our minds.
 
Kouta wasnt a james hird who played all his career like the legend he is, but the injuries didnt help kouta.
The problem with kouta was between 1995 and 2000 he didnt maintain his form, then he peaked in 2000 and got that fricken injury.
You guys probably wish he had played in that prelim to avenge the year before, lol:thumbsu:
Injuries are all a part of it and the ability to overcome them and still perform are one of the defining characteristics of champions. Hird had a knee reco before he'd played and AFL game, then busted his foot that kept him out for 2 years and then had his face smashed in and kept going. Voss had a compound broken leg and came back as good as ever. Everyone gets injured. The only knock on Kouta is that he never had the consistency or the durability of the others and some of that was prior to his knee injury. Agree though that his best of 2000 was just out of this world.
 
Honestly the amount of times I thought that same thought through.
If he had come around say 1982 as a 19 year old, played another 80 to 85 games for an average of 2. whatever it was that would have put him close to a thousand career goals.
bradley would have won a brownlow or two.
U r spot on champ:thumbsu:
If only and we can imaginne in our minds.

Imagine if Motts hadnt been injured in that car accident...

There would be #17 and #18 sitting in our trophy cabinet already.

I am stoked we got Sticks and Braddles when we did because we knew with complete certainty what we were getting.
 
Injuries are all a part of it and the ability to overcome them and still perform are one of the defining characteristics of champions. Hird had a knee reco before he'd played and AFL game, then busted his foot that kept him out for 2 years and then had his face smashed in and kept going. Voss had a compound broken leg and came back as good as ever. Everyone gets injured. The only knock on Kouta is that he never had the consistency or the durability of the others and some of that was prior to his knee injury. Agree though that his best of 2000 was just out of this world.

What injury didnt hird ever sustain, I am pretty surehe had all types almost all injuries u could get as an afl player.
That is my point he came back after missing 1999 and starred in the premiership winning the norm smith and against all odds.
H ehad another year in him when he retired, my opinion.:thumbsu:
 

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Imagine if Motts hadnt been injured in that car accident...

There would be #17 and #18 sitting in our trophy cabinet already.

I am stoked we got Sticks and Braddles when we did because we knew with complete certainty what we were getting.
I believe the 1988 premiership would have been ours, we only needed to get over the line against the dees in that prelim final and melbourne losing the year earlier only spurred them to make up for it.
Wasnt there one other player that got sick and couldnt play in the 1986/87 grand finals, there was mottsy and someone else in the lead up to the finals.
I tell u what if sticks and braddles had come to carlton in 1981, when we were going for back to backs, their presence and talents could have intervened with essendons 1984 premiership.
That was the year kernahan captained glenelg to back to back flags.
an absolute natural and sisciplined leader, a born champion, that is faithful to his wife and never has his name tarnished like certain others. lol
:thumbsu::)
 
I believe the 1988 premiership would have been ours, we only needed to get over the line against the dees in that prelim final and melbourne losing the year earlier only spurred them to make up for it.
Wasnt there one other player that got sick and couldnt play in the 1986/87 grand finals, there was mottsy and someone else in the lead up to the finals.
I tell u what if sticks and braddles had come to carlton in 1981, when we were going for back to backs, their presence and talents could have intervened with essendons 1984 premiership.
That was the year kernahan captained glenelg to back to back flags.
an absolute natural and sisciplined leader, a born champion, that is faithful to his wife and never has his name tarnished like certain others. lol
:thumbsu::)

Des English is the guy you are talking about there... got diagnosed with cancer.

But yeah... I dont know why Sticks isnt talked about in the same sort of tones usually reserved for Carey. Carey was a bit of an excitement machine, but when Sticks turned it on, he could single handedly destroy teams as well.
 
Kouta's best was better than Judd's best.

Leigh Matthews' comments about him have been mentioned in this thread already.

In the video posted by ODN in the 1st page of this thread there's a brief bit of a game against the Swans at PP - after that game Paul Roos said that one quarter (the 3rd ?) by Kouta in that game was the best quarter of football he had ever seen by a player.

Kouta virtually singlehandedly won the 99 prelim - every Carlton fan i know's sweetest non-GF win. 6 marks and 2 goals in the 4th quarter. David Parkin said at Kouta's testimonial dinner that Brett Ratten had about 19 centre square positive contributions (an internal stat) for that game. Kouta had 22 in that 4th quarter.

I'll never forget hearing him being chanted off the ground at PP after taking 18 marks in a game against West Coast (back in the days before sideways and backwards kicking) that we won by a point.

At his best, Kouta was unstoppable, dominant and match-winning like no other I've seen.
 
Kouda ws nowhere near as awesome and consistent as Judd. And once Kouda had the injury in 2001 he was never the same, he reminded me of Daicos when he had his kneww injury. Kouda is like a Honda Integra, but Judd is defintely a Lambhogini.

Anyway it's nice to know that Kouda lets 'kids eat for free' at Souvlaki Hut in Templestowe. i go there and see him with all his rehs talking footy and other stuff.
 
Koutoufides' 2000 season may have had the best individual season either have had, yet I'm going to have go with Judd overall.


Has already shown more leadership than Koutoufides who didn't even remonstrate with Croad who knocked out Russell.

I'm still filthy on Kouta for running away from that bump.

Judd remonstrated with Maxwell after he took that cheap shot at Robinson in 2009.


What was that Kouta incident? I missed it. Any online footage? That Judd one, was that in R8, 09? That game officially confirmed my luv for Judd. That was the great mark and goal in 1st quarter, and I've been trying to get a replay of that, but can't find it. Youtube has the whole game, but for some reason that bits not on there.
 

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