George Washington
Premiership Player
Have you done any serious intervals before?
You Must Train Like This In 2012
- Thread starter cptkirk
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Have you done any serious intervals before?
Well said George. Cardiac arrest comes to mind.
The OP described Brock Mclean. When he got to the club he was faster over 3 km's than both Walker and Judd yet on the footy field he is very one paced.
Interval training is where it's at. The players do less distance work these days and mainly do 400's, 200's and repeat sprint work which is obviously more closely aligned to what they need, fitness wise for a game.
Which leads me to a question I want to pose:
What do people think of the relevance of the beep test as part of the measure of a footballer's running ability as it applies to a game?
Nobody runs around in a game at an ever increasing speed so why bother with the test at all.
The Repeat 30 metres sprints and perhaps a longer 150 metre hard run, then 20 second pause then another and so on would more accurately replicate game running in my view.
The other thing is the hype around some draftee's beep test result as somehow ensuring they are a good footballer or will be sure to get drafted.
As an example I remember Cale Morton running something like a 15.3 beep test his draft year yet to date has done dick on the footy field.
Interval training is where it's at. The players do less distance work these days and mainly do 400's, 200's and repeat sprint work which is obviously more closely aligned to what they need, fitness wise for a game.
Which leads me to a question I want to pose:
What do people think of the relevance of the beep test as part of the measure of a footballer's running ability as it applies to a game?
Nobody runs around in a game at an ever increasing speed so why bother with the test at all.
The Repeat 30 metres sprints and perhaps a longer 150 metre hard run, then 20 second pause then another and so on would more accurately replicate game running in my view.
The other thing is the hype around some draftee's beep test result as somehow ensuring they are a good footballer or will be sure to get drafted.
As an example I remember Cale Morton running something like a 15.3 beep test his draft year yet to date has done dick on the footy field.
It seems the YoYo test is slowly taking over from the beep test because of it being more 'game specific' than the beep test. I was having a chat to a Sport scientist that works with Port and he believes the only thing holding it back is that there's so much more comparative data with the beep test.
I remember an article a long while ago about it and the AFL. I'll try to find it.
I remember an article a long while ago about it and the AFL. I'll try to find it.
- Thread starter
- #30
the bepo test, like most if the draft test is a sub par test for footballers, the repeated sprint test a fair better option and as you said maybe over a longer distance
and did he say old man!! i might be 34 this tear but i'm as fast as you, stronger then you and more resistant to injury then you (i'm assuming strongly)
the fact he doesn't know me from a piece of s**t shows one is a little judgmental - good luck getting through life that
when do you go for 15mins straight in a game? that's right never, you stop, walk, jog etc
i will bet you all the money and possessions i have that anyone's running speed over 100 - 150 will more then double the pace they would run the tan - pretty much common sense i know but it's something you're overlooking and I'm not sure why
maybe re-read the entire article, actually understand where it's coming from and be open to new idea's - hey you might actually learn something
get the most from the least
and did he say old man!! i might be 34 this tear but i'm as fast as you, stronger then you and more resistant to injury then you (i'm assuming strongly)
the fact he doesn't know me from a piece of s**t shows one is a little judgmental - good luck getting through life that
when do you go for 15mins straight in a game? that's right never, you stop, walk, jog etc
i will bet you all the money and possessions i have that anyone's running speed over 100 - 150 will more then double the pace they would run the tan - pretty much common sense i know but it's something you're overlooking and I'm not sure why
maybe re-read the entire article, actually understand where it's coming from and be open to new idea's - hey you might actually learn something
get the most from the least
- Thread starter
- #31
what's the yo yo test?
reidy5
Debutant
Couldn't agree more. The professionals will keep 'miles' in their legs prior to preseason and perhaps first week back in testing with longer distances and you'll see guys in rehab doing laps (once again to get the miles up) but once serious training begins the running component becomes alot shorter distance wise and more burst oriented.
With the assistance provided by high rotation numbers on game day the most important fitness aspect for a player to have (other than the obviously required footy skills) is the ability to recover quickly from burst's of speed.
You're only going to get this from serious interval training.
With so much running nowadays the players are alot leaner than they were, even 5 years ago (Hunt from Geelong being one freakish exception) and clubs are training the players to have explosive power without being overly muscled.
As stated by others long distance running at a sustained heart rate doesn't replicate a game at all.
With the assistance provided by high rotation numbers on game day the most important fitness aspect for a player to have (other than the obviously required footy skills) is the ability to recover quickly from burst's of speed.
You're only going to get this from serious interval training.
With so much running nowadays the players are alot leaner than they were, even 5 years ago (Hunt from Geelong being one freakish exception) and clubs are training the players to have explosive power without being overly muscled.
As stated by others long distance running at a sustained heart rate doesn't replicate a game at all.
Well said in that earlier post old man s**t I mean Kirk. 
Thanks Reidy that's the article (that was a fair while ago).
Thanks Reidy that's the article (that was a fair while ago).
evo
Let's hit the f*ken road!
I think the beep test is still useful for assessing juniors. It assess heart and a willingness to dig deep when you're stuffed; gut running.
- Thread starter
- #36
it can but so do other tests...they more assess natural talents (endurance, power etc) and abilities more so then anything else
- Mar 25, 2003
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i like kirks training idea but i also agree with that petef bloke... i still think you need more volume than i.e. 6 x 120 metre sprints...
yeah the extra may be s**t running, but in terms of football you do a lot of s**t running... in fact you do a lot more s**t running than 'non s**t running', whether you intend or not.
it is all about keeping your intensity for as long as you can.... but you still need to be able to cover distance.
on my own note my fitness has recided - combination of heat today (ran just short of midday, but idea i know but was the only chance i could get, and a lot of christmas pudding)... 10 x 25, 10 x 50, and blew up about at about the 8th 100 metre sprint....
still aiming for 10 x 25, 10 x 50, 10 x 100, 10 x 50, 10 x 25 in 3, 5, 7, 5, 3 minute intervals (2.5km interval sprints across 23 minutes)... i'll get there.
yeah the extra may be s**t running, but in terms of football you do a lot of s**t running... in fact you do a lot more s**t running than 'non s**t running', whether you intend or not.
it is all about keeping your intensity for as long as you can.... but you still need to be able to cover distance.
on my own note my fitness has recided - combination of heat today (ran just short of midday, but idea i know but was the only chance i could get, and a lot of christmas pudding)... 10 x 25, 10 x 50, and blew up about at about the 8th 100 metre sprint....
still aiming for 10 x 25, 10 x 50, 10 x 100, 10 x 50, 10 x 25 in 3, 5, 7, 5, 3 minute intervals (2.5km interval sprints across 23 minutes)... i'll get there.
Wtf happened in this thread..
Kong
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- Oct 11, 2007
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As for the thread, I'll move the off topic posts into the "general discussion" thread.
Despite the glutes being a hip extensor and the vasti muscles being knee extensors and rectus femoris also being a hip flexor? Quad strains are usually caused by one of two things: a) a sudden stretch (falling on a bent knee) or b) experiencing a sudden contraction. Cause (a) is associated with weak quadriceps where cause (b) is associated with over-constricted quadriceps. Depending on how the quad strain occured is how to determine whether your quads were too weak or too tight. It's about balance.
I'm an advocate of only stretching what feels tight as stretching can actually weaken a muscle (hence cause (a) above), before training and matches.
- Thread starter
- #41
can you elaborate some more on this swifty? i have never heard of an injury from "sudden contraction' of muscles (you might get cramp though) and to over stretch the quads in isolation like you're suggesting you'd need to be on your knees and your upper body bending backwards towards the ground - hardly a daily occurence in my world
A sudden eccentric contraction could cause a strain. An overly tight muscle being forced to lengthen and contract at the same time can be strained while not particularly moving through a large range of motion. Stretching the quads in isolation? The majority of quadriceps muscles (the vasti) cross the knee joint and act as knee extensors. An action that forces knee flexion (such as falling onto a bent knee as I mentioned before) causes stretching of these muscles. Rectus Femoris crosses the knee and hip joints, and is hard to stretch in isolation as you mentioned.
- Thread starter
- #43
yes, a sudden eccentric contraction could cause a strain but only because the quads are trying to decelerate on their own, with no help from weak glutes and even weaker hamstrings, i'd definitely stick with my weak posteriour chain diagnosis
- Thread starter
- #44
So I've worked what we'll do for our get big phase which really i don't really care for but the other guys are so keen for it and it fills the gap for next week til australia day weekend
to determine the specifics i basically had a few things i want to get out of it, it's only 1 week though but if we can get a small result in 1 week then it may have some legs in the future
1 - the focus is purely on looks and aesthetics
2 - we will train everyday from sat through to wed
3 - we will use the same exercises each day
to determine the muscles to focus on a listed the muscles that when developed, make the biggest impact from the front:
next was to choose exercises that 'isolate' these area's yet still allow decent wt to be used:
lats - pulldowns
upper chest - bench press to neck
side delts - 1 arm lean away db lateral + chains/bands
tri lateral head
brachilais - hammer curls w/ chains/bands
mid back/rear delts - face pulls
the set up will be this:
lats / chest / traps / back / side delt / bi's
go around in circuit fashion with 1min rest btw each exercise
sets/reps wise:
sat/sun - work up to 8 rep max then do sets of 5 for max sets
mon/tue - work up to 12 rep max then do sets of 9 for max sets
wed - work up to 15 rep max and do sets of 12 for max sets
when you fail to do the prescribed reps then that exercise is finished for the day and you continue with the others until they drop off...they won't drop off at the same time
to determine the specifics i basically had a few things i want to get out of it, it's only 1 week though but if we can get a small result in 1 week then it may have some legs in the future
1 - the focus is purely on looks and aesthetics
2 - we will train everyday from sat through to wed
3 - we will use the same exercises each day
to determine the muscles to focus on a listed the muscles that when developed, make the biggest impact from the front:
- lats
- upper chest
- side delts
- traps
- bi's/brachialis
- mid back/rear delts
next was to choose exercises that 'isolate' these area's yet still allow decent wt to be used:
lats - pulldowns
upper chest - bench press to neck
side delts - 1 arm lean away db lateral + chains/bands
tri lateral head
brachilais - hammer curls w/ chains/bands
mid back/rear delts - face pulls
the set up will be this:
lats / chest / traps / back / side delt / bi's
go around in circuit fashion with 1min rest btw each exercise
sets/reps wise:
sat/sun - work up to 8 rep max then do sets of 5 for max sets
mon/tue - work up to 12 rep max then do sets of 9 for max sets
wed - work up to 15 rep max and do sets of 12 for max sets
when you fail to do the prescribed reps then that exercise is finished for the day and you continue with the others until they drop off...they won't drop off at the same time
I've actually changed my opinion on this after 2 months of predominantly sprints. I came back to training with a slower 2.5k time and beep test. On the back of a half ironman last year i was feeling endurance fit but power/speed slow, now I've done a 180. On the plus side, with some longer runs and finally a clean diet it should come back in a matter of weeks.
I think a mixture of running is what's required, this includes 3-5k runs, 50m sprints, 400m sprints, interval running. The thing with football is that it's not just 100% efforts, no one can go 100% for a qtr or half a qtr, there is a lot of lower intensity running in the mix as well as jogging to get into position.
I think a mixture of running is what's required, this includes 3-5k runs, 50m sprints, 400m sprints, interval running. The thing with football is that it's not just 100% efforts, no one can go 100% for a qtr or half a qtr, there is a lot of lower intensity running in the mix as well as jogging to get into position.
evo
Let's hit the f*ken road!
Haha, I can certainly relate to that. When I tried out at the Fitrzroy u/19s Robert Walls was the senior coach. They loved the 100m multis. He was such a douche.
Anyway onto my question. My young bloke is 13 at the moment and showing some pretty good promise at footy. A couple of his older mates have been picked up by the Oakleigh Chargers recently for their U/15 squad and he is aiming to try and get picked up there the season after next as well.
He currently plays Adam Goodes style game - mobile ruck/changing CHF. At a guess I think he'll probably end up about 6'5" and he is pretty quick so probably end up pretty similar to Goodesy ( hopefully).
I've got no hope of getting him to do the sprints you suggest but I think I can get him interested in a bit of weight training - he already is into the crunches to try to impress the girls.
Just wondering if you reckon it would be too early to maybe get him onto some light deadweight lifting and some squats with say just the bar or a little weight. Or any other suggests to get a kid stronger for footy.
I'd say it's never to young to get him to start.
One thing i'd avoid is letting him max out (ie dont go too heavy).
Make sure his form is spot on - ie. perfect. Make sure his increments are a lot slower and smaller than an adult would do.
Possibly a simple barbell program like starting strength (but with a lot less progression in it, not following it's standard increases).
The earlier he starts, the better off he'll be in the long run.
Edit: I found this article by Bill Starr:
http://startingstrength.com/articles/young_strength2_starr.pdf (Youngsters need strength too)
One thing i'd avoid is letting him max out (ie dont go too heavy).
Make sure his form is spot on - ie. perfect. Make sure his increments are a lot slower and smaller than an adult would do.
Possibly a simple barbell program like starting strength (but with a lot less progression in it, not following it's standard increases).
The earlier he starts, the better off he'll be in the long run.
Edit: I found this article by Bill Starr:
http://startingstrength.com/articles/young_strength2_starr.pdf (Youngsters need strength too)
micksolo
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- Feb 10, 2011
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There's no reason why teens can't be lifting heavy...its one of those bro myths that it will somehow stunt their growth, there's no real evidence to back it up.
If I could do it all over again I would start on a system like starting strength and build up from an empty bar, and do that continually through my teen years.
If a kid is close to being picked up by rep team then improving their speed and power might be the difference between getting picked and not. Obviously a strong, fast kid is going to be better than one who's not, especially in footy.
As for the OP, it's a very good post and I completely agree. The days of running long distance for high intensity sports are long gone. Not only are they not specific, longing run distances also puts a lot of wear and tear on the body.
Has anyone tried the Tabata protocol?
8 x 20 second sprints at 100% intensity, with a 10 second break in between each set. The theory is that not only does it engage your fast twitch muscle fibres, the overload on your cardio system lasts for 1-2 hours after the 4 minute set, and actually increases your fitness far more than doing 30 minutes steady state cardio for example.
If I could do it all over again I would start on a system like starting strength and build up from an empty bar, and do that continually through my teen years.
If a kid is close to being picked up by rep team then improving their speed and power might be the difference between getting picked and not. Obviously a strong, fast kid is going to be better than one who's not, especially in footy.
As for the OP, it's a very good post and I completely agree. The days of running long distance for high intensity sports are long gone. Not only are they not specific, longing run distances also puts a lot of wear and tear on the body.
Has anyone tried the Tabata protocol?
8 x 20 second sprints at 100% intensity, with a 10 second break in between each set. The theory is that not only does it engage your fast twitch muscle fibres, the overload on your cardio system lasts for 1-2 hours after the 4 minute set, and actually increases your fitness far more than doing 30 minutes steady state cardio for example.
- Mar 25, 2003
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tabata sessions are torture. real torture. but their over pretty quickly so it's all good.
but they've gotta be done at your max otherwise it's just a really short cardio session, and doesn't really give the same response.
but they've gotta be done at your max otherwise it's just a really short cardio session, and doesn't really give the same response.
