Carlton v Hawthorn Vent Thread.

[juzza316]

teams like hawks, pies and eagles have process and structure that lessens the reliance on individual players. we have players, no process or structure that gives a greater reliance on individual players hence when we get injuries we crumble like the pathetic team we are at the moment.

 

[walshy93]

Tough calls need to be made. If we want to be a ruthless and cut throat team who declare, "**** the rest!" then we goddamn need to change a lot. kreuze_missile summed it up well.

 

[rp84]

Season definitely over.

No point finishing 8th or 9th.

Play kids, gets good picks, rest anyone Hurt.

Season over. The regular near sighted morons will diagree as usual. The realist will write it off. Our list is ok. Couple great picks may give us a shot. This list won't win a flag.

By the way, man I love carrots. Against all odds, became an a grader.

Pity we tanked a year early. Nic Nat >>> MK.

Our years of cellar dwelling are littered with poor choices or bad player development. Poor trade decisions. After all I put into this team emotionally and financially, I will be heartbroken if we don't get close to tasting success this cycle.

Currently, there are 5-6 younger, better teams than us. I'm seriously concerned we blew it.

 

[Silvagnis]

Things we can control:

- Forward structure. Neither Kreuz nor Hampson are a CHF - don't know where to run, how to position, how to crash a pack. One of them - just one - can play FF. When Hammer played FF in the last quarter and Kreuz cleared out we looked better.

Kreuzer clearly isn't right with his knee. Just couldn't jump at the start of the game.

Don't know why some criticise Ratts for playing three rucks because all of our KPP are unavailable.

The same press that failed against Essendon needs to be thrown in the big. We only got close after we changed the press and Gibbs moved back again.

Don't know what's wrong with Jamison who will become the next whipping boy. Backline was under the pump with the way the speed at which the ball came in.

Good to see Garlett look lively after we started him as the sub. I'll give them a tick for that. Jeff needed a rocket. Shame Garlett missed a few sitters and didn't give it off to a teammate who was free.

Get Koby Stevens and Shaun McKernan over the offseason

Who?

 

[rp84]

Literally, it Almost brings a tear to my eye.

 

[Kramer1]

Not sure why the gameday thead was locked...unecessary IMO.

The so obvious it doesn't really merit comment take on tonight was the amount of uncontested ball we allowed Hawthorn forward of centre. Their inside 50's were essentially a choose your own adventure, whereas ours were the painfully familiar bombs to the pocket.

High hopes for Boots but he often finds himself flat footed and ball watching in no mans land just off the pack...plenty of time and all, but this is one fault that has stood out in each of his handful of appearances.

 

[The Coach]

Not entirely true.

After all the success your boys have provided - you still need enjoyment from wishing badly for others.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Kreuzer clearly isn't right with his knee. Just couldn't jump at the start of the game.

Don't know why some criticise Ratts for playing three rucks because all of our KPP are unavailable.

You know your footy TG, but Krooz with a bung knee, literally falling around the forward line as a KP aint gunna work. He couldn't run 30 yards at pace.

Obviously I am not a happy camper,

 

[Danny_Bhoy]

I have now put a line straight through Season 2012. Don't care if we make finals, this year is officially irrelevant for us.

SACK: Ratten, I am a fan of Ratts but he is shaping up as our scapegoat.

DELIST: Davies, Casboult, Thornton, McLean, Curnow, White, O'Keefe

TRADE BAIT: Waite, Russell, Lucas, Yarran, Collins, 1st round pick

GOAL: Trade all of our older assets or younger under performers to fill the deficiencies on our list.

Eagles have proven you don't need gun forwards to compete, just some consistent options. Their tall forwards right now are Lynch, Darling and Cox. Surely with we could trade for some ready-made options of a similar standard.

MUST NOT DO: Sign Malthouse. Trade for Cloke.

Issues with this.
- Trading Yarran and our 1st pick is ridiculous. We have no youth coming through and you want to further deprive us of that?
- Trade older assets (?) who are these older assets Thornton Russell? There value is verry little - and you think we're going to get 3rd rate young players who we can magically turn in to good players?
- Firstly signing Malthouse will bring hope which means memberships. Secondly Malthouse is the best with player relations and one of the best tacticians. How is this not for the club? What you want to bring in a rookie coach?

 

[gbatman]

I'm not saying that the axe needs to be wielded just because we are losing, it is because how we are going about things on the field.

We have a massive injury toll and have had this issue for a number of years. Geelong are a good side who rarely have really bad injuries or a high injury count. How do they train different to us? This comes back to the fittness people and the coaching staff doing things wrong. I recon most of our list is playing sore, just looking at the way our guys are running and moving.

Our game plan is crap. Football is a very simple game and the best coaches are very simple in how they want people to go about playing the game, just listen to Leight Matthew comment. We seem to be un organised and un structured and un predictable to fellow team members. We try to go along the boundry, we get too many numbers around the ball and infront of the ball and don't look to get numbers behind the ball, defend and open up the space forward of the ball. We deliver to the boundry inside 50 and bomb it to our smaller players. There is no instruction, predictability or structure in our forward half and this is the first time ever, including when we were shit last deccade, that I hate watching us go forward with the ball because it's a joke. Bringing the ball around the boundry and clogging things up is the worst thing we can do as a team and that is what we do.

How our forwards are playing is wrong. How those delivering it to our forwards is wrong. Our work around stoppages is really poor. Mostly due to a lack of size and strength but also team work. In the center we have a tagger and two guys trying to get the same football. This is rubbish. The tagger needs to play close but be more focused on getting the ball, this is usually Ellard. Carrazzo does this well, he is always playing close but is all about getting the ball. There also needs to be a blocker, we have a ruck who can win the ball and it takes just 1 player out of the 4 in there to clear it. No one blocks and looks to open up a path for the rover to run to. Forget blocking for Judd, he gets a hard tag, he needs to be blocking for another player. This means judd will have two players on him at stoppages but it also means one of our blokes is lose and if Judd does this well then we can open up space to tap the ball into for someone to run onto and bang we are away and clear. There is a big lack of team work there and no one willing to sacrafice their game for the team and I believe Judd needs to be the one to use his ability to draw a tag and sacrafice his game for his team mates. Again, this comes straight back to the coaches and the so called clearance coach who has been shit.

Our defence is ok. No real gripes here, it's just that it has it's work cut out with us losing the clearances and playing a game with not many players behind the ball. So I think our defence gets a tick. The only place it falls down is around stoppages and covering players running throught stoppages in our back 50.

We are the weakest side in the AFL. We have no physical strength, haven had for years. We aren't big enough and aren't strong enough. Just look at what Essendon have achieved with the guy they got who brought them up to top standard. I am sick of watching our blokes get pushed around week in week out. It's pathetic. We have world class facilities. Our strength and conditioning people would be the first ones I would cut. The have achieved nothing.

We probably have got all we can get out of Ratts. He's been alright but we want to be the best. There are a few top shelf coaches working in the media not coaching, just saying we should go for the best of the best. We have a list that can go close. But there are holes and we do a lot wrong with how we play the game. So to change how we play the game we change the coaching staff. We have a big problem with injuries and always have, so we change the fittness staff. Our physical build and strength is bottom shelf so the strength and conditioning people go. Our tall backs are coming on but none of our tall attacking players have shown any improvement at all, especially in marking. Kreuzer is a massive underachiever and needs a mentor who can get hold of him and change who he is and how he goes about it. We need to get off our highhorse and get a guy like Wayne Carey as forward coach. We are crying out for someone like him to tutor our talls. Yeah he's had a terrible off field history, who gives a shit what he does when he's not at the club, he is one of the most knowlegable and best teachers of tall forwards there is and he would not have our forwards playing the way Barker has them I guarantee. Premierships before Pride. Collingwood are happy to have an ex-prisoner and guys with police records playing at their club and as much as I hate saying it, they make us look like shit when it comes to performing. Malthouse and Roos are gun coaches not coaching. We need to go all out and get some ex-Geelong people to the club because what ever they are doing, is the perfect way to go about it. Scarlett is said to be one of the guys who performs as an onfield leader for them and would be great for us. We should also play the kids and tank. Buckley, Dale, bootsma, McInness and Mitchell are the future and would learn so much and be so much more ready for AFL in 2013 if the get games this year.


In an ideal world I would like to see the following.
Malthouse as our senior coach.
Carey as a forward coach or as a talls coach.
Scarlett as development and head assistant coach.
A full time VFL coach who brings some leadership and senior players to the team so that we aren't getting flogged and so that there is onfield instruction so when guys get dropped they will be pushed to perform and the young players will be taught and instructed on the field.
New strenght and conditioning people.
Some really good and early draft picks from our low finish to add to the team and creat some real depth.

The Players
Not trained into the ground and kept in Australia. Perhaps take a Geelong approach to preseason, what ever that is, but we will find out when we grab some ex geelong guys.
Players bigger and stronger, even a bit too excessively muscled up to allow for that natural loss of muscle mass that happens when they start playing.
A simple game style that can be read by their team mates that brings a nice balance of defence and attack, that both gets numbers behind the footy and opens up the game in front of the footy.

 

[Xeno]

We are in so much trouble.

No, really, we are, I think its time we admitted it as a group..

 

[Tazwegian]

In his Judd-centric tenure he has destroyed the careers of Thornton and Russell, lost us Grigg and Jacobs, delisted O'Hailpin and kept Joseph and Bower, and Hampson. The only kid he seems to have developed is Robinson and maybe Garlett.

H.

To be fair to Joseph, he was named in Carlton's best tonight. Apart from one poor 30 second period where he delivered a fairly poor ball inside fifty then immediately conceded a free kick, he was outstanding with how closely he kept to Rioli. Rioli was very quiet, he accumalated a 17 possessions, but was not even close to being damaging. He didn't kick a scoring shot and I don't even remember him getting a goal assist. Definitely not the most skilled player in the game, but he can play a shut down roll in the middle of the ground quite effectively. Having him deep in the backline is a poor option though, if you are going to play him, play him in the middle as a tagger or not at all.

 

[Shatterpoint]

Ratten no ****ing clue, no idea, why dont we just draft some more skinny flankers and while we are at it maybe Ratten can buy a game plan and a clue. Too many soft weak passengers too busy worried about the latest hair style, and Ratten seems to tolerate this shit, too buddy, buddy with the players but what do you expect from a soft coach and a admin thats a boys club.

 

[gardiner stand]

we have no system because we have a coach that doesnt know how to develop one.the clud is a shambles.
judds brilliance,quality players like murphy simpson scotland kruezer betts and the like(even fev) have masked what an absolute ordinary coach ratten is.he has blown good draft picks on warnock and mclean,he has no idea how to develop youth,hell he even went after chris johnson( what he saw in him ill never know).

 

[Aphrodite]

We are in so much trouble.

No, really, we are, I think its time we admitted it as a group..

I think it's time you stopped using an alias !!!!!!

 

[Aphrodite]

What's with the West Coast troll "liking" posts !!!!!!

 

[Aphrodite]

we have no system because we have a coach that doesnt know how to develop one.the clud is a shambles.
judds brilliance,quality players like murphy simpson scotland kruezer betts and the like(even fev) have masked what an absolute ordinary coach ratten is.he has blown good draft picks on warnock and mclean,he has no idea how to develop youth,hell he even went after chris johnson( what he saw in him ill never know).

Yeah yeah yeah we know - Sakc Ratts.

Good grief you sound like a broken record !!!!!

 

[Xeno]

I think it's time you stopped using an alias !!!!!!

Really. Something about tonights game says otherwise ?

 

[walshy93]

Yeah yeah yeah we know - Sakc Ratts.

Good grief you sound like a broken record !!!!!

Geez, let him have his rant- it is after all, the "Vent thread"...

 

[gardiner stand]

Yeah yeah yeah we know - Sakc Ratts.

Good grief you sound like a broken record !!!!!

yeah thats what successful orginisations do sack the dead wood

 

[Xeno]

Yeah yeah yeah we know - Sakc Ratts.

Good grief you sound like a broken record !!!!!

WHATS WITH ALL THE EXCLAMATION MARKS ARE YOU MAKING A POINT !!!!!!!!!! ?

 

[Aphrodite]

Really. Something about tonights game says otherwise ?

What has tonight's game got to do with you using an alias?

 

[Aphrodite]

Geez, let him have his rant- it is after all, the "Vent thread"...

Yes it is a vent thread.


I am venting.

 

[Xeno]

G

What has tonight's game got to do with you using an alias?

Go work it out champ.....................

 

[Aphrodite]

WHATS WITH ALL THE EXCLAMATION MARKS ARE YOU MAKING A POINT !!!!!!!!!! ?

No need to shout.