Rookie Draft & PSD prospects

[PattyKwasagun]

While I don't disagree that it would be great to see more QLD kids on the list (and hopefully that happens from next year onwards with the Lions academy players finally becoming draft eligible), I would prefer us to take a more talented prospect from WA than a QLDer just because he's local. Our recruiters job is to build a strong side, not a local side.

 

[jackess]

Plus our academy intake starts next year. Should hopefully give us a steady feed of QLDers.

 

[wantok]

While I don't disagree that it would be great to see more QLD kids on the list (and hopefully that happens from next year onwards with the Lions academy players finally becoming draft eligible), I would prefer us to take a more talented prospect from WA than a QLDer just because he's local. Our recruiters job is to build a strong side, not a local side.

While I don't disagree that it would be great to see more QLD kids on the list (and hopefully that happens from next year onwards with the Lions academy players finally becoming draft eligible), I would prefer us to take a more talented prospect from WA than a QLDer just because he's local. Our recruiters job is to build a strong side, not a local side.

Yes that fair comment but the reality is that the local kids are often underrated. They don't get the press of the TAC cup kids but it would be likely that the top 20% would be capable of mixing it in any of those teams. If they had that exposure and regular high grade competition the would be noticed. Those involved on junior footy locally could all point to the talented kids who have fallen through the cracks due to lack of opportunity caused by southern centric recruiters. Does the name Zorko ring a bell?

 

[Haso]

Yes that fair comment but the reality is that the local kids are often underrated. They don't get the press of the TAC cup kids but it would be likely that the top 20% would be capable of mixing it in any of those teams. If they had that exposure and regular high grade competition the would be noticed. Those involved on junior footy locally could all point to the talented kids who have fallen through the cracks due to lack of opportunity caused by southern centric recruiters. Does the name Zorko ring a bell?

How many Zorkos do we have around, though? The name Stiller also rings a bell. Local and talented would be ideal, but it's not always possible.

 

[wantok]

How many Zorkos do we have around, though? The name Stiller also rings a bell. Local and talented would be ideal, but it's not always possible.

Cheyne needs to be congratulated on a fine career of 100 games. There's plenty more out there. I actually coached Cheyne as a kid and i can assure you that there was at least a half dozen kids in that team who were better footballers than Cheyne. Most gave the game away after 18. Cheyne persevered and was rewarded. Opportinity and recognition will turn up many more diamonds.

 

[Voss the boss]

The club need to list more Queensland kids.

I believe this was a rookie list policy (our club made) when it first came into the AFL (can anyone confirm this or is this just my recollection?), particularly in early 2000's but very few made the grade. If you go back through the drafts for us, you will find many Qld with 0 games next to their name. It wasn't until the latter part of the 2000's that the club realised that we were missing opportunities by only drafting Qld talent in the rookie draft. At least now we have the academy and rookie zone selections to help.

 

[Haso]

Cheyne needs to be congratulated on a fine career of 100 games. There's plenty more out there. I actually coached Cheyne as a kid and i can assure you that there was at least a half dozen kids in that team who were better footballers than Cheyne. Most gave the game away after 18. Cheyne persevered and was rewarded. Opportinity and recognition will turn up many more diamonds.

That's true. I'm not here to say that we won't find quality kids in Queensland, but it seems to me that our recruiters are finding it easier to get these draftees in from WA or SA or Victoria as well. We did get Zorko and Michael last year, but it seems to me that the resources are more plentiful eslewhere just this moment. This should change with our first lot of academy selections next year.

 

[Bert Man]

I hope we take Sam Lowrie as a rookie.

 

[footymaad]

The majority of the Qld under 18's this year came from the Lions zoned area and did all of their preseason under the Academy coaching staff so they don't need to wait till next years Academy group to look at Qld boys - no reason that they shouldn't have enought knowledge on this years players to know if anyone worth a rookie spot.

The reason Lions have additional qld rookie places at all is to take local boys with potential but who are behind in development compared to those in the AFL states due to lack of opportunity / loacl competition in their teenage years. Hopefully a poor financial position doesn't mean a couple of Qld boys miss out on that opportunity this year - the potential benefits to the club i think are much greater than just the actual outcome of one or two individual players.

 

[Quigley]

Shane Nelson
Pumped for him last draft but failed to make it on any list!
Is he trouble? Not a team player? Drugs or just plain unlucky?

Tests well, accumulator, works tirelessly, mid who can run/carry and use the ball, on the surface looks like a good addition to any list (You would think at least worth a rookie punt) but . . .

Size is a big factor. Last year he was an accumulator who did not really use his athletic abilities. Little or no hurt factor. This year he upped that a great deal and played much more as a burst player who rotated off the bench a lot. He broke the lines and had much more hurt on his disposals. The size is still a problem and he hasn't really put on any muscle which I am sure a few didn't particularly like. Clubs regularly stash guys his height on the rookie list where they are only committed for one year. I will be very surprised if someone doesn't pick him up as a rookie.

 

[Baby_Jenks]

While I don't disagree that it would be great to see more QLD kids on the list (and hopefully that happens from next year onwards with the Lions academy players finally becoming draft eligible), I would prefer us to take a more talented prospect from WA than a QLDer just because he's local. Our recruiters job is to build a strong side, not a local side.

While I agree for the most part, if it came down to leaving our QLD rookie spot open and drafting one I'd take drafting one every time. I've been surprised (pleasantly) to hear around town how many people talk about Dixon as 'our boy' and therefore quasi-adopt the Suns as their team. Even the rookie listed Michael gets a mention as 'our boy'.
Sure it's not every second person and most of them are ex-pat mexicans but as a 50k marketing move it would have to more than pay for itself. Who knows, we might even get some one so thankful they bust a gut and turn a limited skill set and turn it into something great like Boyd from the Dogs.

 

[pauldrc]

While I agree for the most part, if it came down to leaving our QLD rookie spot open and drafting one I'd take drafting one every time. I've been surprised (pleasantly) to hear around town how many people talk about Dixon as 'our boy' and therefore quasi-adopt the Suns as their team. Even the rookie listed Michael gets a mention as 'our boy'.
Sure it's not every second person and most of them are ex-pat mexicans but as a 50k marketing move it would have to more than pay for itself. Who knows, we might even get some one so thankful they bust a gut and turn a limited skill set and turn it into something great like Boyd from the Dogs.

Surely Boston would fit in this mold with the reports on what he has done to try to get drafted, and how shattered he apparently is ....worth a shot IMHO.

Wouldn't be averse to Bourke either....

 

[Triple R]

Size is a big factor. Last year he was an accumulator who did not really use his athletic abilities. Little or no hurt factor. This year he upped that a great deal and played much more as a burst player who rotated off the bench a lot. He broke the lines and had much more hurt on his disposals. The size is still a problem and he hasn't really put on any muscle which I am sure a few didn't particularly like. Clubs regularly stash guys his height on the rookie list where they are only committed for one year. I will be very surprised if someone doesn't pick him up as a rookie.

Hey Quigley, how do you rate Boston compared to Rioli? Which of those would be a better fit for our club?

 

[Caiphus]

With the development spots regardless of finance, I think the club would understand that it there is a risk of "use-it-or-lose-it" about them; so for the cost/benefit in the long run it's probably worth it to fill the development spots at least and leave main list rookies vacant if necessary to save cash.

 

[thoselionslads]

Size is a big factor. Last year he was an accumulator who did not really use his athletic abilities. Little or no hurt factor. This year he upped that a great deal and played much more as a burst player who rotated off the bench a lot. He broke the lines and had much more hurt on his disposals. The size is still a problem and he hasn't really put on any muscle which I am sure a few didn't particularly like. Clubs regularly stash guys his height on the rookie list where they are only committed for one year. I will be very surprised if someone doesn't pick him up as a rookie.

I found it interesting that the Eagles took a mature age mid from the WAFL (the bloke who was on the Saints list) but overlooked Nelson. Must be some question marks.

 

[Banana Boots]

Do we have to use our first rounder to draft an academy kid? or is it sort of like father-son bidding?

 

[whatboutbob]

Do we have to use our first rounder to draft an academy kid? or is it sort of like father-son bidding?

It is exactly like father/son bidding.

Best case scenario for us is having two or more prospects valued around the same level.

eg if Conway and Tickner are both valued around the second round next year we could get them using our 2nd and 3rd round picks, or even 3rd/4th depending on whether a club choosing before us in that round is prepared to bid on them.

 

[whatboutbob]

So, to expand on the example, Knightmare currently ranks in next year's draft (a looong way out, so for demonstration purposes only):

Conway at 42, Tickner at 51 and Gribble at 52.
If we were to finish 10th, we'd have (ish) pick 10, 28, 46, 64, 82 & 100
If teams genuinely bid at those picks outlined for the players above, it would cost us our 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks (46, 64 & 82) to get three players valued at 3rd round picks.

 

[captainrich]

does the club make it clear pre draft how many players its looking to take in the draft? if so when? pettard would also be available for the rookie draft could be worth a punt if we were keen on adding a mature body for he kicks

 

[whatboutbob]

does the club make it clear pre draft how many players its looking to take in the draft?

No.

 

[captainrich]

No.

so basically it could be 1 or 2 or nohing come rookie draft day we will not know at all?

 

[whatboutbob]

so basically it could be 1 or 2 or nohing come rookie draft day we will not know at all?

Yep, though training watchers/the lions website may report that certain players are training with the club, which would indicate they're under consideration.

 

[Banana Boots]

It is exactly like father/son bidding.

Best case scenario for us is having two or more prospects valued around the same level.

eg if Conway and Tickner are both valued around the second round next year we could get them using our 2nd and 3rd round picks, or even 3rd/4th depending on whether a club choosing before us in that round is prepared to bid on them.

Thanks Bob, certainly very interesting with the academy kids coming through

 

[Ironmonger]

It'll be very interesting to see what kind of bids other clubs put out for our academy players. Players from non-traditional states tend to be undervalued at draft time as it is, and there's a few other factors here.

There's a bit of an information imbalance. We'd see these players a lot more than they do. The bid is only successful if we don't 'match' it, and if that doesn't happen it's a sign they might have bid too much.

Plus you'd have to wonder if the go home factor is going to be stronger for a kid who has come through an academy system, worked with Lions' employees, maybe played some Lions reserves, and expected to be drafted into playing in his home state.

I'm sure if someone like Tickner or Conway stands out at the carnival, and pushes themselves into the top 20 or so, they'll attract decent bids, but I wonder if anyone will bother offering their third round picks or thereabouts.

It'll also be interesting to see if GC make any bids on our academy players, and vice versa. We'll see a bit of each other's kids, and we'd both like to have a decent number of QLDers on the books. But we'd be doing ourselves no favours by cannibalising each other's academies.

 

[POBT]

It'll be very interesting to see what kind of bids other clubs put out for our academy players. Players from non-traditional states tend to be undervalued at draft time as it is, and there's a few other factors here.

There's a bit of an information imbalance. We'd see these players a lot more than they do. The bid is only successful if we don't 'match' it, and if that doesn't happen it's a sign they might have bid too much.

Plus you'd have to wonder if the go home factor is going to be stronger for a kid who has come through an academy system, worked with Lions' employees, maybe played some Lions reserves, and expected to be drafted into playing in his home state.

I'm sure if someone like Tickner or Conway stands out at the carnival, and pushes themselves into the top 20 or so, they'll attract decent bids, but I wonder if anyone will bother offering their third round picks or thereabouts.

It'll also be interesting to see if GC make any bids on our academy players, and vice versa. We'll see a bit of each other's kids, and we'd both like to have a decent number of QLDers on the books. But we'd be doing ourselves no favours by cannibalising each other's academies.

Yeah, will make for some interesting machinations.

I do wonder though if there is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to info about potential draftees. I mean, how much more value do you get by seeing a player every week, as opposed to a club which sends a scout to look at a player 4 or 5 times over the course of the year? It may not help as much with talent spotting as it does with the psychological stuff - does the player turn up ready to play every week, does he coast, does he drop his head when things aren't going well...etc.

I think one of the biggest potential advantages is having these guys indoctrinated in our system for a substantial period of time before drafting. I mean, Conway has played finals with us, trained with us, been giving fitness programs by our guys, knows the club, knows the coaches, knows the players. That has to make the transition to senior footy easier.

It is interesting that Qld had a poor year in terms of the draft this year. It was a funny year in some respects in that there was a complete divergence of opinion of some of the players. Boston was rated by some Qld footy watchers as a sure thing to be drafted and relatively highly too. And yet, I have a mate involved in local footy who was adamant that Boston was a long way off drafting standard (he's also quite bearish about the other potential 2012 Qld draftees) . It is too early to say who is right and who is wrong (Boston will surely get his chance as a rookie) but, IMO, the difference in local opinion was far greater this year than before.

My mate also said that 2012 is the last year where the standard of Qld players is poor. He is confident that 2013 is a better year and reckons the year after will be even better. Great news for us and the Gold Coast. And great news for the AFL - as far as I'm aware, Cameron was the only player drafted from a non-football state which is not great in terms of development paths in Qld, NSW/ACT and NT. In fact, if it weren't for the stellar year for the Tassie boys, Div 2 would be virtually unrepresented in this year's draft. Something similar happened last year too, IIRC.