Lance Armstrong formally charged with doping

[Belnakor]

The uci was corrupt to the bone back then. Also pretty sure the head of the laboratory claimed he was asked by the head of the uci to meet with armstrong & bruynel to tell them
how to beat epo tests.

That is one thing, covering up a positive test is another thing all together.

If anything, I reckon there were more cover-ups that no one knows about

Your really beginning to stray into the conspiracy theory area.

If there is a simple explanation it is almost always the correct explanation.

Either Lance made sure he had low doses and trained away from testers.
or: there was a conspiracy to cover up tests all the way to the highest ranks.

Seriously, people need to just realize Lance was no more connected, no different, no smarter than anyone else on the tour. He just got away with it for longer.

 

[blackcat]

you've pushed it too far and you dont know what you are talking about

Sam Riley said she ate tainted steak

If thats good enough for her, its good enough for me, and should be for you

Of course, then there was Ian Thorpe...

lutenizing hormone

or loot enizing hormones from chemist warehouse

 

[blackcat]

or: there was a conspiracy to cover up tests all the way to the highest ranks.

do you really think in the late or mid 90s Justin Charles is the only one the AFL got. What about the fuzzy readings on growth hormone and testo for Maxwell and Sawn?

What about after Charles was popped, the panelists on the Footy Show said "why did he take oil based and not oral?

why would they know about half-life's of roids?

Whay did Ian Collins look out for Charles.

yeah, but one simple answer dude

 

[blackcat]

Nope.. Have never posted on any cycling forum, under any name. I'm the same old Vader that's been posting on the Adelaide Board for the better part of 10 years.

I have no competitive background in cycling. I first became interested in the sport when I turned on the TV late one night and discovered the TdF on SBS - I watched as Vino attempted a breakaway up a climb, only to be chased down by his own teammates. From that time I was hooked, barely missing a stage since then (though I very rarely watch the final stage into Paris, which is usually so boring that I fall asleep while watching it). My knowledge is gained by watching, listening and reading various sources, using my own judgement as to who and what I choose to believe.

Vaderm your posts always are worthy imo, and I have had a similar arc to you. Only followed the sport since the ealry 2000s. And I did once believe. Then I found out about the Ponzi scam.

 

[Belnakor]

do you really think in the late or mid 90s Justin Charles is the only one the AFL got. What about the fuzzy readings on growth hormone and testo for Maxwell and Sawn?

The AFL is a different kettle of fish to an international supporting body

 

[KnobHead]

That is one thing, covering up a positive test is another thing all together.

Actually, they're both one and the same - 2001 Tour of Switzerland was the failed drug test, & Armstrong told Hamilton the UCI would cover it up. The head of the Swiss Drug Testing Labratory was told to tell Bruyneel & Armstrong how to beat the tests

Even if they were spread about, it's pretty odd the UCI getting lab testers to tell cyclists how to beat the tests? It just shows the UCI was doing it's utmost to protect Armstrong from testing positive, whether that's in the form of telling him how to beat the tests or covering up failed tests. Definitely same ballpark.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycl...ying-says-former-teammate-20130120-2d18u.html

Your really beginning to stray into the conspiracy theory area.

No, just commonsense - Lance sued and belittered people who tried to say he was doping, he'd do anything to cover up about his doping, he gave money to the UCI. The dots are very, VERY big, just join them. If anything, the conspiracy theory is that Armstrong was not in cohorts with the UCI.

If there is a simple explanation it is almost always the correct explanation.

Either Lance made sure he had low doses and trained away from testers.
or: there was a conspiracy to cover up tests all the way to the highest ranks.

Why not both?

Seriously, people need to just realize Lance was no more connected, no different, no smarter than anyone else on the tour. He just got away with it for longer.

All the evidence, including USADA's reasoned decision, suggests otherwise.

 

[Belnakor]

All the evidence, including USADA's reasoned decision, suggests otherwise.

nothing in that judgement suggests the authorities were aiding and covering up anything by LA.

 

[Angus Young]

do you really think in the late or mid 90s Justin Charles is the only one the AFL got. What about the fuzzy readings on growth hormone and testo for Maxwell and Sawn?

What about after Charles was popped, the panelists on the Footy Show said "why did he take oil based and not oral?

why would they know about half-life's of roids?

Whay did Ian Collins look out for Charles.

yeah, but one simple answer dude

never heard anything about that... maxwell etc with hgh readings wtf

maybe they are just ignorant and were simply asking what the difference is... why was he injecting stuff etc etc might of thought that was hard core or something, or they had never heard of or seen injectable gear...i seriously doubt those blokes on the footy show panel back then new about half lives and short acting fast acting compounds etc etc

back to armstrong..what a dishonest and nasty person he is..wow

 

[phantom13]

I highly reccomend watching this, it will lighten the mood a little.

 

[Bond.ShaneBond]

Gold!

 

[blackcat]

never heard anything about that... maxwell etc with hgh readings wtf

maybe they are just ignorant and were simply asking what the difference is... why was he injecting stuff etc etc might of thought that was hard core or something, or they had never heard of or seen injectable gear...i seriously doubt those blokes on the footy show panel back then new about half lives and short acting fast acting compounds etc etc

back to armstrong..what a dishonest and nasty person he is..wow

the fact they new of this esoteric info for simpletons on a footshow panel, is instructive.

knew

 

[blue gunslinger]

do you really think in the late or mid 90s Justin Charles is the only one the AFL got. What about the fuzzy readings on growth hormone and testo for Maxwell and Sawn?

What about after Charles was popped, the panelists on the Footy Show said "why did he take oil based and not oral?

why would they know about half-life's of roids?

Whay did Ian Collins look out for Charles.

yeah, but one simple answer dude

the fact they new of this esoteric info for simpletons on a footshow panel, is instructive.

knew

Just need to look at programs like WC to know Charles was not alone
What that has to do with Lance - his past ans present is beyond me
Lance has no regrets and would do it again
He now wants a shot at Kona
Hell NO

 

[phantom13]

Just need to look at programs like WC to know Charles was not alone
What that has to do with Lance - his past ans present is beyond me
Lance has no regrets and would do it again
He now wants a shot at Kona
Hell NO

If the lifetime ban is lifted and he does enter Kona what would the chance be they wouldn't allow him to compete, i'm sure they could refuse him entry to the event for any number of reasons (organisers discretion?) would they do it to uphold the validity and reputation of the event or would they cave to the potential media exposure and subsequent sponsorship dollars?

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Interesting article on Armstrong and the Invincibility factor.
http://thesidelineagenda.com/2013/01/24/the-armstrong-syndrome-when-men-become-brands/

 

[blackcat]

Interesting article on Armstrong and the Invincibility factor.
http://thesidelineagenda.com/2013/01/24/the-armstrong-syndrome-when-men-become-brands/

I think a companion to brands and marketing is the PR that followed Armstrong, and shaped the message which was so counter to the person.

 

[blackcat]

 

[blackcat]

his PR firm was run by one of George W Bush's political advisors in Austin. Mark McKinnon's his name.

So successful Armstrong thought he could control the message even when there was the inevitable likelihood that the truth comes out for the bounder and cheat he is. "inevitable likelihood" is one of those blackcat dichotomies that does sound like it is a product of burston marstellar

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124459634335000647.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/02/22/the-gift-of-cancer.html

he still thinks he can pull off his legacy, see his response to tygart

also had Austin Livestrong interns in 2008ish on the SBS cycling forum, threatening me with defamation. wow, what a lot of money they have wasted there. 100 staff on generous salaries, plus interns.

 

[monty1104]

 

[Mick98]

Fruity disco biscuits are a far cry from performance enhancing drugs

Feel free to take the comedian wannabe approach.Shows the mentality of people on here.

Good luck with that BTW

Let's hope Cadel is clean,because if he isn't this site will melt down.

 

[monty1104]

Fruity disco biscuits are a far cry from performance enhancing drugs

Feel free to take the comedian wannabe approach.Shows the mentality of people on here.

Good luck with that BTW

Let's hope Cadel is clean,because if he isn't this site will melt down.

Geez, someone's wound up a bit tight. Take a chill pill. Oh wait, better not mention pills, it has no comedic value

 

[Mick98]

Geez, someone's wound up a bit tight. Take a chill pill. Oh wait, better not mention pills, it has no comedic value

You're right,that post was a bit over the top.
I know it came across that way,but I didn't mean to have a go at you personally mate.

 

[monty1104]

You're right,that post was a bit over the top.
I know it came across that way,but I didn't mean to have a go at you personally mate.

No probs. I think this thread is just bringing out the worst in some people, myself included. It is a topic that has so many differing angles and opinions. There is no way everyone will be happy. In fact, I doubt most people will leave this thread satisfied that they have put their opinion forward fairly and without any bias.

 

[Little Big John]

Let's hope Cadel is clean,because if he isn't this site will melt down.

Yeah, I doubt that.

The site melting down that is.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Not sure how to embed this one.. another mash-up of the Oprah interview, set to music

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The UCI have shut down the independent panel investigating Armstrong - and have received some strong criticism

A couple of stories from the Telegraph in the UK. Stories are by ex SMH journo ( and a regular on ABC Offsiders program) Jacquelin Magnay who moved over to the UK a couple of years ago to be their lead Olympics reporter.
UCI decision to shut down independent commission branded 'a disgrace'

The world cycling body UCI has been accused of being a manipulative and contemptible administration, dragging cycling further into disrepute after its swift axing of the independent commission set up to investigate payments made by confessed drug cheat Lance Armstrong.

By Jacquelin Magnay 2:00PM GMT 29 Jan 2013

The Change Cycling Now reform group, headed by key witnesses in the Armstrong saga, including Tour de France winner Greg LeMond, issued a hard-hitting statement claiming the UCI dismantled the independent commission late Monday night rather than risk being unmasked.

''The UCI decision is a rank and disgraceful manipulation of power by a governing body concerned only with self-preservation,'' the statement said.

''Change Cycling Now today calls on the general sport of cycling, its National Federations and other global stakeholders to enforce the removal of a manipulative and contemptible administration that is content to drag cycling further into disrepute in order to safeguard the positions of its leaders.''

CCN organiser Jaimie Fuller told the Telegraph Sport the UCI shut down the commission because commissioners started asking difficult questions.

Said Fuller: ''We saw last Friday the UCI being rightly castigated for not having presented one document demanded by the UCIIC...................

UCI decision to shut down independent commission branded 'a disgrace'

and

WADA blasts UCI as 'arrogant and deceitful' after cycling body calls for truth and reconciliation commission

The reputation and credibility of cycling’s governing body, the International Cycling Union (UCI), sank to a new low on Tuesday as it was described as “arrogant” and “deceitful” by the World Anti-Doping Agency
By Jacquelin Magnay 8:09PM GMT 29 Jan 2013

Wada’s withering condemnation followed the UCI’s decision on Monday to disband the three-strong independent commission it had set up to investigate whether the governing body helped Lance Armstrong conceal his drug-taking when the American was the sport’s ultimate icon.

The UCI claimed it was abandoning the independent commission, which included Baroness Grey-Thompson, in favour of establishing a truth and reconciliation process aimed at revealing the full extent of the doping epidemic which has corrupted cycling for decades.

But that prompted a stinging rebuke from Wada, which heaped fresh pressure on the UCI’s beleaguered president Pat McQuiad, whom many anti-doping campaigners have called on to step down in the wake of the Armstrong scandal.

“Wada is dismayed by the press release issued by UCI yesterday, both in terms of its content and its deceit,” Wada president John Fahey wrote in a statement. “Instead of any continuing professional dialogue with Wada’s president, UCI has publicly announced by way of a press statement that Wada has agreed to work with it on some form of truth and reconciliation,” the statement said.

“This is not only wrong in content and process, but again deceitful. The fact is that Wada was awaiting a reply to the correspondence when the UCI release was delivered.” ..........


WADA blasts UCI as 'arrogant and deceitful' after cycling body calls for truth and reconciliation commission

and this bit

McQuaid had claimed on Monday that Wada had “no confidence in the existing Independent Commission process”.

Fahey countered: “Wada has never questioned the integrity and independence of the members of the commission, but solely the ability of the commission to work properly under the contract given by UCI to the commission.”

The row means the UCI now has no over-arching drugs investigation even though the fallout from Armstrong’s confession has been exacerbated by the Spanish Operation Puerto trial and separate drugs inquiries in Belgium, Italy, Holland and Australia.

It also means there is no current probe into two six-figure donations made by Armstrong to the UCI at a time when he has since admitted he was doping. The UCI has always denied the payments were bribes to suppress positive drug tests.

There is a link to the Operation Puerto trial that started on Monday in Spain. Another story from Magnay


Operation Puerto doctor Eufemiano Fuentes 'treated tennis players, athletes, footballers and a boxer'

Disgraced Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes has given explosive evidence on the first day of Operation Puerto trial, telling a Spanish court he treated athletes, footballers, a boxer and tennis players, but claimed he was helping their recovery from anaemia rather than enhancing their performance illegally.


......

But the judge Julia Santamaria has rejected a plea from the prosecutors to allow the detailed evidence gathered from Fuentes computer files because it would be a breach of privacy. It is believed such evidence includes references to specific sportsmen and women outside of cycling.

Earlier the judge had ruled that the evidence before the trial would be limited to cycling only. This morning the judge ruled that Lance Armstrong's former US Postal team-mate Tyler Hamilton would be allowed to be added to the witness list of 35 cyclists to give evidence to the court.

......

Operation Puerto doctor Eufemiano Fuentes 'treated tennis players, athletes, footballers and a boxer'