Mega Thread AFL to investigate Essendon for controversial fitness program - PART3

[HARKER]

Lance, you're a gun... But do you not see where I'm coming from with regards to Hird?

I understand what you're saying but David Parking doesn't.

I'm somewhat on the fence with the leaders and what they should and shouldn't have known.
I do expect some heads to roll, or at least some hands put up regardless what eventuates.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I could say the same about the Hawks swapping Rioli to have Henderson hold down CHB for the next six seasons.

Doubt that you'd do that trade.

We did?

Essendon's POTY is clearly handed out for the best deflection.

You'd probably rate Heppell and Myers more than Bennell/Day/Darling and Henderson if Carlton had their pick of these six players.

What gibberish is that last paragraph?

 

[maddog37]

You do know that we didn't play finals last year? Last year being the only year in question here.

Yes I am aware. I should have stated hypothetically speaking. I am just a touch intrigued as to your line of thinking on this topic. Why do you think the drugs are even banned if they serve no long term benefit?

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Trial by media.

 

[BomberWatson]

Your team didn't change much maybe, but ours did.

Care to elaborate? Noticeable additions in the same time frame I can think of are Curnow & Duigan. Noticeable ommision includes Grigg? They may be more players that you can tell me of, but that's all I can think of atm, and they aren't major changes.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Either way, they all have to go. Even if everything was legal, the fact that they were too negligent to know what their players were given proves that they are incompetent. They failed their job. It is their responsibility to guarantee the players wellfare as well as the integrity of the competition.

Not fact. Rampant media speculation. In the real world, you don’t actually hang people based on rampant media speculation. There wouldn’t be a coach or CEO left in the sport if you did.

Do you actually think Essendon are going to start sacking coaches because Caro and Patrick Smith says they should? That would be negligence.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Possibly, but we are talikng about a completely different season.
AFL have made it clear that this is not an issue going into 2013.

The AFL have made it clear that they don't think anything illegal is occuring at the club going into 2013. They simply means if anything illegal was happening then they don't believe it still is. That has nothing to do with the lasting impact of PED's.

Again, I am not saying they were taking anything but it they were the AFL are not going to simply walk away because they have stopped the practice.

If they were taking anything they are screwed no matter what the lasting impacts are, if they weren't then they are fine.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Put it this way, I assure you that either one of these 2 has definitely happened: 1) involvement in drug cheating or 2) gross negligence/incompetence. It's only a matter of time before we find out which one.

But thank you for proving my point that Hird is beyond criticism at Essendon.

The bloke could sell your club to some Saudi sheik and you blokes will still worship the ground he walks on. Wake up!

I said I would wait to find out the facts before I criticised anyone. FFS, I have not even criticised Dank yet.

How could any reasonable person expect an alternative response.

Believe it or not (I know it's seems strange for Bigfooty) but some people like to know a situation in full before dolling out punishments and forming opinions.

 

[Mighty Chinook]

Depends what the findings are. I think it will turn out the players have gained no actual future benefit from anything taken.
No doubt some trolls will use this as material for years, I am not naive about that.

It's nothing to do with trolls. These wounds will take a long time to heal.

 

[the distributer]

Would you like a bigger tin foil hat?

Seriously, why don't we just declare null and void every single game in the history of VFL/AFL.

With the bows you are drawing, it won't be long before every single game could potentially, in one way or another, be tainted.

Only Essendon games mate, a large shadow has formed over the playing careers of Hird and Thomson IMO, and they were both club captains, god only knows the full extent to it if these guys were in fact cheats.

 

[whiteoak]

Actually we made the 99 prelim which was a bit over 12 years ago, not a decade and a half.

But anyway, I doubt you should be talking to me about winning finals given how many Grand Finals we've beat you in. Maybe your ancestor was alive to see a Pies victory over the Blues on the big stage.

No, really. It would be best if you walked away from the keyboard now. It really would.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

So the players didn't get bigger and stronger last pre-season?
So the new muscles just fall off when you get off the gear?

Young players get bigger and stronger every pre-season, at every club.

 

[wicksy]

Peptides only assist in recovery, and that could be the substance. The AFL have no concerns re:2013. We are not talking about anobolic steroids or stuff like that.

Ummm what!?
Peptides, especially GHRP-2 and 6 have nearly identical benefits as anabolic steroids but also help with recovery, are not easily detectable and only have minimal sides, if any.

Seriously... WTF!?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Only Essendon games mate, a large shadow has formed over the playing careers of Hird and Thomson IMO, and they were both club captains, god only knows the full extent to it if these guys were in fact cheats.

By adding those simple words, you’ve already elevated yourself above 95% of the hacks in the football media. Well done (I mean that, by the way).

 

[Kaiser Powser]

The AFL have made it clear that they don't think anything illegal is occuring at the club going into 2013. They simply means if anything illegal was happening then they don't believe it still is. That has nothing to do with the lasting impact of PED's.

Again, I am not saying they were taking anything but it they were the AFL are not going to simply walk away because they have stopped the practice.

If they were taking anything they are screwed no matter what the lasting impacts are, if they weren't then they are fine.

It really depends on what was taken.

If players are banned and are out of the comp for a period of time, the negative effects of that, would likely be a larger factor one would imagine.

 

[The Filth]

I challenge you to find me one shred of even the wildest speculation that discusses Essendon players knowingly using PED. Just one wild-eyed supposition will do. You can even mash your caps lock as much as you like.

The problem remains though Lance... IF PEDs on WADAs list of banned substances in sport were used, "knowingly" using is of little consequence or mitigation:

World Anti-Doping Agency president John Fahey stated ignorance was no excuse.

"It's each athlete's personal duty to ensure that no prohibited substances enter into his or her body," Fahey said.

"It's not necessary for the athlete to show intent or fault or negligence or knowingly use ... the simple fact is that the substance is in the body, then the offence is proven and the sanctions apply. There's no defence."

 

[Lance Uppercut]

The problem remains though Lance... IF PEDs on WADAs list of banned substances in sport were used, "knowingly" using is of little consequence or mitigation:

World Anti-Doping Agency president John Fahey stated ignorance was no excuse.

"It's each athlete's personal duty to ensure that no prohibited substances enter into his or her body," Fahey said.

"It's not necessary for the athlete to show intent or fault or negligence or knowingly use ... the simple fact is that the substance is in the body, then the offence is proven and the sanctions apply. There's no defence."

Would you accept a "no shit Sherlock"?

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Ummm what!?
Peptides, especially GHRP-2 and 6 have nearly identical benefits as anabolic steroids but also help with recovery, are not easily detectable and only have minimal sides, if any.

Seriously... WTF!?

Yet some Peptides are legal to take, even as players.
Unless we know what, if anything, was taken, this particular subject is pretty pointless.

 

[Sector 7G]

Young players get bigger and stronger every pre-season, at every club.

At Essendon so do some of the older players in the midfield. And then they play some half decent football instead of being booed by their own supporters.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Sick to death of this garbage that the media has been dishing out this past week. no respect just baying for blood.

Also to the supporters out there that want Essendon gone are just as bad and need to grow a brain. been nothing but sensationalism crap.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

I'm looking forward to when this whole investigation is over and Essendon have the book thrown at them

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Care to elaborate? Noticeable additions in the same time frame I can think of are Curnow & Duigan. Noticeable ommision includes Grigg? They may be more players that you can tell me of, but that's all I can think of atm, and they aren't major changes.

So whatever you can think of constitutes no major changes?

LOL now I've heard it all.

Ok, I'll bite. From 2011 onwards: Yarran was a far better and experienced player, Walker was thriving in a new role, Laidler was an outstanding addition to our defence, Duigan actually played well against you in the first 2011 match. Murphy was a much better player, Betts has had his best 2 seasons, Carrazzo was better, Jamison was better he was on track for AA in 2011 before injury, Henderson improved by a lot, Garlett got more consistent. Scotland was better, IIRC was in the AA 40 squad in 2011, Robinson got better with experience.

That's 12 players and I'm probably forgetting some off the top of my head. Couple that with Judd in good form and Simpson and yes we were VERY different from 2011 onwards...

 

[hoianbulldog]

It really depends on what was taken.

If players are banned and are out of the comp for a period of time, the negative effects of that, would likely be a larger factor one would imagine.

Let's assume for a sec they were on the juice. I can't see where the AFL have room to move and still remain a signatory to WADA and I can't see them walking from WADA.

 

[MaddAdam]

The press conference body language eh. That old chestnut.

Also, the chestnut of Essendon fans ignoring the fact that the body language relates to the fact that the press conference was called to announce ASADA investigating because Hird et all had to admit they didn't know what was in the the injections.

They may have feeling like HOPE it was safe.

But they don't KNOW.

FACTS are in play here, not EMOTIONS.

 

[wicksy]

Yet some Peptides are legal to take, even as players.
Unless we know what, if anything, was taken, this particular subject is pretty pointless.

You stated that "Peptides" are not like anabolic steroids. You are wrong!!

"Legal for player" Peptides are not even worth taking. Why the hell would you risk injecting something that has such a minuscule benefit when you can use conventional methods for recuperation such as a good night sleep and plenty of water??!!

Head out of the sand mate... C'mon!!!