Search for Aussie Rules Oldest Footballs

[Groupie_]

Didn't Richmond invent the oval ball?

 

[Michael Riley]

In a shameless plug for my own website....I have uploaded the results of the search to date (and will continue to do so) at
http://boylesfootballphotos.net.au/tiki-index.php?page=Oldest+Footballs

It is beginning to be an interesting list.

Collingwood have the oldest ball so far and it celebrates a win over Carlton.... a ball Carlton supporters probably wont rush over to see.
But Carlton have the ball from the 1945 grand final, the bloodbath match....I am guessing that not many swans supporters would enjoy.

Anyway, for those following the thread, please feel free to have a look.

In terms of the round v oval ball (taking up the joke above), in the early days it seems that some teams preferred the round ball and others the oval ball and for a time both were used. Sometimes the balls were changed over and part of the game could be with a round ball and the other part with an oval ball. Maybe they should consider that for the international rules games against the irish.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

Below is a personal picture of mine of the 1920 Walhalla Premiers. Good picture of the ball in it, but it looks pretty well worn and I can't identify any manufacturer.

 

[Michael Riley]

It is a great pic. I love the flags

To me the ball looks so much bigger than the modern balls, and much wider at the ends than the more pointy modern style.

 

[cemoz]

Thanks for the update Michael, I thought there was another old ball in the sports museum. I've only been there once so can't remember what exactly it had on it. I do recall it had a metal plate similar to the Hawks ball though.

Much prefer the old Burley Typeface same style as the Chesson the newer one makes em look cheap.

 

[Michael Riley]

I like the old Burley typeface too

I am not sure about the Sport Museum.... I will ask them at the next Football Heritage Group Meeting

 

[fabulousphil]

I note that in Kalgoorlie that Burleys acording to the Kalgoolie miner (newspaper) appear to be for sale in at least 1909, by comparison Sherrins were on sale in 1899.

The Goldfields league started in 1896

 

[Michael Riley]

Burley started in 1908 so that explains the 1909 start date.

Sherrin entered the WA market in the late 1890's...but before that, Gilbert was the standard ball.
Gilbert made rugby balls and the laws of the game at the time stated quite clearly that Australian Rules used a Rugby Match II ball.
There was no truely Australian ball until the laws were changed in about 1904.

Sherrin gained popularity from about 1904-1908 but then Burley and other locally produced footballs were used in WA.

The Sherrin website says that in 1879, "W Sherrin makes the first football designed specifically for Australian Rules football." This may be true, but as the laws stated that a rugby ball was used for senior games...and Sherrin does not become a 'name' brand until the mid 1890's. So the impact of that design was not immediate, or spread deeply into WA. Sherrin's big break appears to be his early relationship with Collingwood.

Sherrin is definitely a VFL/AFL story...but the wider story of interstate football, and the VFA is a bit different.

Gilbert Football for Sale - Perth 1896
Classified Advertising. (1896, August 22). The West Australian (Perth, WA : 1879 - 1954), p. 4. Retrieved September 27, 2013, from http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3098148

Gilbert Football for Sale - Kalgoorlie 1898
Advertising. (1898, May 16). Kalgoorlie Miner (WA : 1895 - 1950), p. 1. Retrieved September 27, 2013, from http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88102351

 

[cemoz]

If your interested the guy who does the Lost Perth facebook page might be able to put the word out for more info on old Burleys and Chessons as he recently showed a photo of an old Cheeson. Not sure if it was his or someone else's but it looks like there might be a few about still.

Have to say a little annoyed about this http://artstuff.net.au/category/artist-interviews/ after doing some searching around
Three quarters down the page there is an interview with Rose Tato about working with Penelope Lee this bit is what annoys me Hundreds of footballs were sourced from all over Australia, some signed, some dated back to the early 1900’s. Cutting, placing, creating patterns on steel structure was part of our process for well over 7 months.

If this is the actual case some actual early footballs were lost all for some art piece by the photos it looks like there is a mix of Sherrins and Faulkners. I work with leather but there is no way I would cut up a football that old.

 

[Michael Riley]

'some dated back to the early 1900’s' - Considering that a 1950's football is pretty rare...

It is pretty sad that she is proud of cutting them up. Would she do the same to old jumpers?

One of the issues is that if a club could not tie the football to an event, they are not that interested, so things fall through the cracks. If the artist did think the footballs were worth saving, who would she contact?

There certainly needs to be more work on 'football history' as opposed to 'AFL history'. Think of Country clubs, School footy, old leagues that no longer exist, Railways, Police, Fire Department, Indigenous etc. There is nowhere that collects their material. The AFL needs to have a 'community football' historian to co-ordinate this sort of work.

I just hope my attempts to make a list of the oldest footys points out to people that they are pretty rare.

 

[cemoz]

Yep I hope what you are doing creates an awareness as well, I've always liked football but became more fond of it after taking up leatherwork about ten years ago. Even though they now use chrome tan instead of my favourite veg tan it's nice to know they still use leather instead of going to synthetic. I actually find myself watching the ball more at times rather than the players ha ha weird I know.

The thing is with these old footballs if nothing is done and they aren't stored or taken care of properly they will be lost forever as veg tan does need to be put through a conservation process eventually otherwise they are just going to crumble. I know the NFL museum has taken steps to look after their collection of American footballs but it looks like by the time the AFL thinks it will be important enough to look into it's going to be too late.

It is a shame those footballs were lost through the cracks as I think it's just as important to document ones from the average person as well as ones from major games or clubs as it's us that helps to keep interest in the game. If I had known what the artist was up to at the time I would of gladly informed her of the importance and taken them off her hands.

 

[fabulousphil]

Burley started in 1908 so that explains the 1909 start date.

Sherrin entered the WA market in the late 1890's...but before that, Gilbert was the standard ball.
Gilbert made rugby balls and the laws of the game at the time stated quite clearly that Australian Rules used a Rugby Match II ball.
There was no truely Australian ball until the laws were changed in about 1904.

Sherrin gained popularity from about 1904-1908 but then Burley and other locally produced footballs were used in WA.

The Sherrin website says that in 1879, "W Sherrin makes the first football designed specifically for Australian Rules football." This may be true, but as the laws stated that a rugby ball was used for senior games...and Sherrin does not become a 'name' brand until the mid 1890's. So the impact of that design was not immediate, or spread deeply into WA. Sherrin's big break appears to be his early relationship with Collingwood.

Sherrin is definitely a VFL/AFL story...but the wider story of interstate football, and the VFA is a bit different.

Gilbert Football for Sale - Perth 1896
Classified Advertising. (1896, August 22). The West Australian (Perth, WA : 1879 - 1954), p. 4. Retrieved September 27, 2013, from http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3098148

Gilbert Football for Sale - Kalgoorlie 1898
Advertising. (1898, May 16). Kalgoorlie Miner (WA : 1895 - 1950), p. 1. Retrieved September 27, 2013, from http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88102351

Sherrin definetly sold or gave balls to Collingwoods forerunner Brittania, if you look at page 21 of 'Sherrin, the family behind the football' you will note a Brittania player holding a Sherrin football, that definetly looks pretty well like a modern day Sherrin, perhaps a little fatter. (1886)

7 years aproximately before Sherrin was advertising in Bendigo (1893), and weirdly the first time we see Sherrins being advertised in Victoria.

Bit off track, but, I also note that there was a Brittania club on the Kalgoorlie goldfields in the early day ( 1894/5), i am not sure whether that name for a club was common, it may well have been, but what i do know is that thousands of Victorians made their way to the goldfields of WA and Kalgoorlie in particular, perhaps it was named after the Brittania club in Collingwood.

 

[Michael Riley]

Sherrin was a part of that pre-Collingwood team, he probably supplied the ball and got the team photo as a benefit. You can see the same team photo on the Sherrin Stand at the Melbourne Exhibition (in the same book). I would say that this actually shows that Sherrin footballs were not that popular in the 1880's, otherwise he would have had an endorsement from one of the more important clubs at the time. I think Sherrin's rise is actually quite fast. From being a no-name brand in 1893 to being the manufacturer of the VFL ball only a few years later.

The other point on football size is that Sherrin was a leather maker. I wonder where he got his bladders from? did he import the bladders? if so then it would be hard to have a football significantly different in shape than the standard ball of the time (The Gilbert Rugby ball).

And in terms of leather, I think that Waterproofing of the leather got better over time, with special efforts in the later 30s through to the 1950's. There must have been some new treatments that they used.

 

[cemoz]

I would say the bladders were most likely imported as it was a limited market back then,there also doesn't seem to be any history of a rubber manufacturing plants for them anywhere in Australia so It's highly likely the bladders were coming from Gilbert or their manufacturer directly which was Charles Macintosh & Co.

The leather I use is natural veg tan ie it soaks water up easier and has no finish for football leather although it was still veg tan at that time it was infused with oils and finished with waxes which makes it more waterproof.

 

[Michael Riley]

Ross Faulkner produced a series of white 'water-proof' balls in the 1950's. The balls were originally designed for night football and it looks like the coating improved their ability as waterproof balls.

I have been wondering why Aussie Rules has stuck with leather. Rugby and American Football have moved to synthetic and Soccer now seem to have a new ball design for each world cup.

Leather is probably more unpredictable...and actually I like that. There is such a move towards everything being so standard and generic. In Cricket, the ball and the pitch are integral parts of the game. Players ability to cope with variation is admired. (and cursed when Australian Batsmen can't hit anything), So I think we should celebrate that idea.

 

[fabulousphil]

Ross Faulkner produced a series of white 'water-proof' balls in the 1950's. The balls were originally designed for night football and it looks like the coating improved their ability as waterproof balls.

I have been wondering why Aussie Rules has stuck with leather. Rugby and American Football have moved to synthetic and Soccer now seem to have a new ball design for each world cup.

Leather is probably more unpredictable...and actually I like that. There is such a move towards everything being so standard and generic. In Cricket, the ball and the pitch are integral parts of the game. Players ability to cope with variation is admired. (and cursed when Australian Batsmen can't hit anything), So I think we should celebrate that idea.

I would imagine that at a certain stage, the fact we were still using leather balls whilst every other code went to synthetic was discussed at length.

Someone obviously put the kybosh on it, RL and RU also produce a wet weather ball, that enable players to get better grip when wet, but AF sticks to the traditional leather ball, that gets as greasy as warm bacon fat when wet.

The more i think about it, the more i actually think they made the right decision.

Be interesting to know when it was actually bought up at commission level, if it ever has, ....my guess is Jack Hamilton, ex Collingwood FB guided by T Sherrin howled it down.

 

[cemoz]

The new footballs have a poly coating on them and as they are chrome tanned don't get as water logged as the older ones. But because chrome tanned makes a softer leather even if they use the best part of the hide which is the bend (the part a foot past the shoulders running along the spine going down to about 3 foot right to the end) they stretch more and go out of shape quicker which is now why they use a thicker lining material to combat it.

That poly coating doesn't help with grip though in the wet just stops them from getting too heavy. Although not as stringent with specifications as Wilson, Sherrin's and Burley's do need to fall within a certain weight range to be used in AFL games.

Top end Wilson American footballs still use leather, it is made by Horween one of the few American tanneries left. All the footballs used in the superbowls are made from Horween leather. They make some really nice leather too expensive for me though.

I remember reading the AFL/VFL ? did some testing with synthetic footballs and the players hated them as they didn't like how they compressed off the boot and they had a tendency to go anywhere. I think with our game they need to have a little bit of weight to them which is what leather provides.

 

[fabulousphil]

Not the oldest by any stretch, but a Chesson football.

 

[fabulousphil]

The true burley ball was similar inshape to the faulkner. The Chesson was the better ball.

 

[basashi]

Interesting as they were called WANFL from 1932-80. But there is the Chesson ball in 1993 with "approved by WANFL" on it.

 

[fabulousphil]

Interesting as they were called WANFL from 1932-80. But there is the Chesson ball in 1993 with "approved by WANFL" on it.

I took that photo yesterday, as i was taking photos of Arena Joondalup, and it was in their social club foyer, posted most of them on the stadiums page, after posting it, i took another look at the ball and you can see quite clearly at the top of the ball that 1960 premiers is written on it, someone at WPFC has made a mistake.

The 1960 premiership players have signed it, buggered if i know how they managed to mistake it for a ball in 1993

 

[basashi]

I am pretty sure i can read Ray Marinko on the top of the ball in your photo.

 

[cemoz]

Thank you for showing the photo fabulousphil, I haven't seen too many Cheeson's the only other ones I've seen the typeface is the same as the old Burley one. So this one looks to be older than those do you know if any of the other clubs have any as I'm interested in the old veg tan leather ones and I would love to see some more.

Cheers

 

[Michaels]

Just to clarify something above, the KB Red and the KB Yellow balls as seen in AFL Matches are still made using the veg tan finish. A Poly option is available (In both red and yellow) which is more popular with local clubs as it holds its brightness for a lot longer under lower strength lights.

 

[Michaels]

The Sherrin has been the official game ball of the VFL / AFL since 1897, but as mentioned previously, T.W Sherrin had been making balls for Australian Rules Football since 1879.

The below was a letter from the Australian Football Council to T.W Sherrin written February 17th, 1909
Mr. T.W.Sherrin Melbourne, 17th February, 1909
Dear Sir,

During the contests held in celebration of the Jubliee of the game, at the Melbourne Cricket Ground in August last year, in which teams from New Zealand, New South Wales, Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria and Western Australia competed, the only footballs used were those of your manufacture. I heard nothing but praise of the excellence of your workmanship, and it must give you much satisfaction to know that your goods command everywhere the highest reputation. – Your faithfully,

Signed

E.L Wilson, Secretary