Mega Thread All AOD-9604 Discussion - Still Illegal but ASADA will not press charges on AOD9604 - McDevitt

[Major Colvin]

I don't really care about the technicalities of it all - but can someone please assure me that Essendon are screwed?

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

That's a matter for ASADA to determine.

But if S2 is the section which addresses AOD, then S0 becomes inapplicable - that much is clearcut.

Untrue because S2 remains only half applicable due to it not covering( and with no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use (e.g drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development or discontinued)

 

[Jade]

So if the outlandish becomes true and the Bombers as a club are suspended from the competition for a year, you will remain and keep the seat warm for their return? Impressive if you do it. It would be very hard.

Reminds me of all the lobbying by South Sydney in the NRL when they were out of the competition for a couple of years. So much heart required during this time.

First the fight, then the conclusion, then the aftermath and if necessary the acceptance and rebuilding. The club is bigger than all of the people within it at the end of the day, though it may not seem like it at the time.

Sure.

For a start though; I think we know even the absolute worst punishment would still involve an Essendon side; whether that side was made up of VFL/WAFL/SANFL players is an entirely different question.

If the absolute worst came to pass, as a member I'd probably be looking to spill the board (even though it isn't their fault); clean out the club and start from the ground up. Would still be a member, would still attend games and most certainly would still be present on BigFooty.

My guess is we'll get something in between though. Heavy fine, possible draft sanctions. I seriouslyy doubt players will be rubbed out; and I suspect the club will fight any attempt to strip points.

 

[Jade]

James Hird will not be coaching the Bombers this time next week.

Based on what Nostradamus? Idiot prediction with no basis in fact.

 

[Gavstar]

I have been convinced that AOD-9604 was captured by S2 and not S0 (See the AOD thread)

If ASADA told them that it wasn't banned under S2 after the Metabolic presentation, they would be able to mount a strong defense for that particular drug.

 

[IanW]

South Sydney's story is pretty amazing - no other club that was axed like they were managed to pull themselves back off the mat like they have.

I was hardly aware of RL during those days but I have a lot of admiration for any supporter base that can keep the fire burning in times like that.

A big part of that was the coach when they were kicked out, Craig Coleman, stayed loyal to the club and the red and green played matches in the country and so on, while he did his day jo9b as a baggage handler for Ansett.

He coached them when they came back into the league, and then the club sacked him.

While I think Essendon will cop some very heavy penalties, and the majority of the 2012 team will face bans, I think the club plays next year.

 

[DudleyB]

Hird has engaged in the biggest concerted campaign of deliberate cheating in Australian sports history.
It is clear their strategy is to deny deny deny.
Making Hird the biggest lying scumbag in Australian sporting history.

 

[SwampRat]

I hope port finish 9th so we can have essendons spot in the finals so i can rub every essendons fans noses in it.... cheating dirty dogs.

Nah, I'd prefer us to finish 8th and have Richmond finish 9th and play finals. Just for the irony.

 

[Major Colvin]

Do I have to allegedly believe it?

Enjoy being smug, won't last much longer.

 

[pjhad1]

My experience on BF is that as soon as people start losing the argument, they immediately jump to conspiracy theories aimed at the person whose arguments they did not like.

For the record, I stand by my assessment of AOD being prohibited under the code... I just find it extremely curious that someone would care so much to effectively spend all their time at work (as you have kindly advised) posting on this one point.

Especially considering that the actual effect of your point is dubious at best. Lets assume you're correct... AOD is an s.2 substance... What now? Where do you propose the board takes the conversation now? EFC are still guilty of taking a banned substance... If they get off on the technicality you will propose (being, relied on WADA's advice that it is not s.2), they are getting off on a technicality (not saying I think they can. I don't - there are other circumstances to consider).

My point is, your best case scenario is that EFC get off on a technicality... So why repeat the point a thousand times in a week??

 

[Barkly St End]

Sure, 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week -

No - only when something piques my interest.

On this occasion - I felt I had a clear read on S0 and I couldn't understand why no one else was seeing it.

So I have persisted.

And I think a few are finally starting to see it.

My motivation?

I enjoy being right.

The last time I took on 1,000 posters riled against me was during the World cup debate, when I suggested Australia would win one vote only - and copped a lot of flak for being right.

There is no greater way to cop flak on an online forum - than to be right.

 

[Major Colvin]

Based on what Nostradamus? Idiot prediction with no basis in fact.

the systematic cheating thing...havent you heard?

 

[Cronos]

• Growth Hormone (GH), Insulin-like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1), Fibroblast Growth Factors (FGFs), Hepatocyte Growth Factor (HGF), Mechano Growth Factors (MGFs), Platelet-Derived Growth Factor (PDGF), Vascular-Endothelial Growth Factor (VEGF) as well as any other growth factor affecting muscle, tendon or ligament protein synthesis/degradation, vascularisation, energy utilization, regenerative capacity or fibre type switching

and other substances with similar chemical structure or similar biological effect(s).

Aah now I see Barkly's argument

AOD-9604 meets the S2 tests - I think the balance of probabilities would suggest it is a growth factor which affects one of more of the above (muscle, protein synthesis, energy utilisation, regenerative capacity) and it meets the similar chemical structure test as it is a fragment of GH and some of the biological properties appear similar.

If ASADA cleared it under S2 they are seriously stupid.

But the code is designed so that a base level pleb in a call centre can search for an item. If it's listed, they say "yep, banned". If not, they say "I can't see it prohibited, but make sure it's ok under S0.

It's a code designed to be idiot proof. Problem is that bigger idiots keep showing up.

 

[pjhad1]

I don't really care about the technicalities of it all - but can someone please assure me that Essendon are screwed?

They're screwed. Whichever way it is put, they are screwed.

 

[Oneiros]

Sure.

For a start though; I think we know even the absolute worst punishment would still involve an Essendon side; whether that side was made up of VFL/WAFL/SANFL players is an entirely different question.

If the absolute worst came to pass, as a member I'd probably be looking to spill the board (even though it isn't their fault); clean out the club and start from the ground up. Would still be a member, would still attend games and most certainly would still be present on BigFooty.

My guess is we'll get something in between though. Heavy fine, possible draft sanctions. I seriouslyy doubt players will be rubbed out; and I suspect the club will fight any attempt to strip points.

I think the chances of there not being an Essendon next year are vanishingly remote unless either a) there are still some wild bombshells under wraps or b) the fight to prevent loss of points/players suffers a spectacular backfire (arguably more likely than point a). A less likely scenario even than Essendon being totally cleared on all charges, for instance (in my opinion, based on the weight of articles we've seen to date).

But if a worst-case scenario eventuated then I'd agree that spilling the board would be important, if lamentable. Sometimes its just important to make a clean break.

 

[Chief]

That's a matter for ASADA to determine.

But if S2 is the section which addresses AOD, then S0 becomes inapplicable - that much is clearcut.

WADA have already said this is not the case.

They set the rules.

Pretty much end of story.

 

[Barkly St End]

WADA have already said this is not the case.

They set the rules.

Pretty much end of story.

They set the rules - and they need to follow them - not make stuff up along the way.

 

[Oneiros]

I have been convinced that AOD-9604 was captured by S2 and not S0 (See the AOD thread)

If ASADA told them that it wasn't banned under S2 after the Metabolic presentation, they would be able to mount a strong defense for that particular drug.

Oh dear, did BSE infect you with his brain leeches?

 

[Major Colvin]

Conversely, if the Bombers get off with a slap of a wet lettuce leaf, a lot of posters from 17 other clubs will find it hard to front up and the disillusion within the community will be huge.

Supporters from 17 other clubs would be well within their rights to feel like walking away from the sport if Essendon get off without appropriate sanction. Especially given the sanctions handed down to Adelaide and MElbourne last year, and Carlton a decade a go. This is much, much worse and involves all levels of heirarchy within the club.

 

[teknodeejay]

I personally won't be going anywhere, but some might - who knows.

There's no shame in admitting you were wrong but prepared to defend your castle by any means necessary. That's how surrender has always worked.

I know that if Essendon are vindicated of all allegations, I'll (un)happily say I was wrong and have been corrected.

Disabling accounts or running and hiding... that's just stupid and cowardly. Stand up and accept whatever has you change your stance. Click Ignore on the people who want to throw pies at your face, and carry on supporting your club.

 

[Barkly St End]

You skiped my last post sadly, which part of
Any pharmacological substance which is not addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the List AND with no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use (e.g drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development or discontinued, is covered under S2? As drugs under pre-clinical trial don't fall under s2 so you have to go to S0

I've said this many times. The AND in S0 is important. No other section must be applicable before S0 becomes applicable.

 

[pjhad1]

You skiped my last post sadly, which part of
Any pharmacological substance which is not addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the List and with no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use (e.g drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development or discontinued, is covered under S2? As drugs under pre-clinical trial don't fall under s2 so you have to go to S0

He will say "AND"


Edit: Too slow, unfortunately...

 

[Ando727]

I'm not prepared to concede that.

Allegedly, I'm shocked to be here not conceding any lies or half-truths about being in a very good position when the truth comes out...

 

[Barkly St End]

He will say "AND"


Edit: Too slow, unfortunately...

Of course I will!

AND rightly so.

 

[Jade]

I have been convinced that AOD-9604 was captured by S2 and not S0 (See the AOD thread)

If ASADA told them that it wasn't banned under S2 after the Metabolic presentation, they would be able to mount a strong defense for that particular drug.

There is SO MUCH CRAP that has been written/spoken/inferred/implied I honestly have NFI whether it is or is not going to be a problem.

Guess we'll see.