ASADA relied on 'vague' accounts - The Australian 27/12/13

[SunshineBoy]

but the AFL and EFC were one. The AFL did pull for Essendon, see Wylie and Fitzpatrick and ASADA and Canberra.

AFL did pull for them. But they pulled in their own interest too. a good outcome for EFC was a good outcome for AFL. A synergy, gestalt, if you wish.

Then EFC went all game theory and brinkmanship, to push for a better negotiated outcome, and then a division developed. Before then, Demetriou and Evans knew they were in the leaky boat together and it in both their best interests to bail in partnership together.

Stop making sense, the whole world is out to get Essendon, who are whiter than the snow in Antarctica.

The AFL tricked them into believing that they would be ok....oh that evil genius AD who forced jimmy boy to embark on an illegal program thus ensuring that AD best mate David Evans gets thrown under the bus, just like myriads of other Loyal servants of the Essendon football club,

How dare any one say that the drugs which Essendon CAN NOT or WILL NOT name as they Don't Know what was injected are illegal.

They wont name them because they are illegal under the WADA code, if they are legal then the club could finish this issue and sue everyone who besmirched them. But just like some posters on here they are trying to find a legal loophole that lets them get away with cheating.

 

[nineteen eighty]

I would expect him to say something along the lines of "I cannot at this time give any guarantees on the outcome of the ASADA investigation or the impact it will have on the club. The club have co-operated with the ASADA investigation & we appreciate this is a complex investigation & will take time to be finalised & we look forward to receiving the final report at the completion of the investigation. I will not be making any further comment on this matter until the ASADA investigation is completed."

If I was in Little's shoes I would probably do the same thing as he is doing. He knows they are in a very bad place and going to get whacked. He needs to ensure that when all this plays out, EFC is seen as a victim (as much as is possible). Dank and Robinson are rogue operators who brought EFC to its knees. As victims, they are in a better position to maintain some form of respectable revenue inflows.


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[Whatsonswhat]

but the AFL and EFC were one. The AFL did pull for Essendon, see Wylie and Fitzpatrick and ASADA and Canberra.

AFL did pull for them. But they pulled in their own interest too. a good outcome for EFC was a good outcome for AFL. A synergy, gestalt, if you wish.

Then EFC went all game theory and brinkmanship, to push for a better negotiated outcome, and then a division developed. Before then, Demetriou and Evans knew they were in the leaky boat together and it in both their best interests to bail in partnership together.

Under the above scenario, negotiations with Essendon began when Essendon realised they were railroaded, and they reacted to self-protect by revealing a fair hearing was never on the cards; it was all a facade. To hold it all together they needed to convince Essendon (and Hird) to take their punishment as planned. Optics. The promise of no punishment to players, and retention of Hird's pay, sealed this deal. Hypothetically.

 

[Barkly St End]

'mouthpiece for the AFL?

What do the AFL stand to gain from hurting Essendon?

1. One of their main revenue drivers
2. AD owes his career to David Evans father Ron
3. Bill Kelty is on the AFL commission

These are all facts - why would the AFL want to go after EFC?

Your story is embarrassing.

Fact - EFC is a commercial partner with the Herald Sun and part pays Robbos salary
Fact - Hird is personally connected to several executives at News Ltd

Why - oh why- would the AFL and Fairfax want to hurt the EFC?
Noone has explained this at all. It makes no sense. Zero. None. Zilch.

Fact - The AFL moved heaven and earth to cover for the EFC.

Fact - Noone is picking on Essendon because they are Essendon. People are picking on cheating.

The AFL was playing a two card trick at all times, probably got caught out doing so, but the proof will be in the eating.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

Thats all very nice, but there was rumours and specuilation aplenty - Both The Age and Damian Barrett were working on the story, and the AFL were aware of that according to both Caro and Damo - well before the Government announcement.

I wasn't suggesting the AFL was informed only when the ACC made its announcement.

 

[Laphroaig]

i bet half the drugs that fall under the S0 category don't even had ped substances in them i call it the "I don't know" pile.

As good a description as any.

But. If a hypothetical sports club includes substances from the "I Don't Know Pile" in a hypothetical high performance program what might we conclude about the intent? What might we conclude about the club's belief about the properties of the substance.

Might it be that they believe it will enhance performance? Being used in their high performance program and all?

 

[Leather Poisoning]

As good a description as any.

But. If a hypothetical sports club includes substances from the "I Don't Know Pile" in a hypothetical high performance program what might we conclude about the intent? What might we conclude about the club's belief about the properties of the substance.

Might it be that they believe it will enhance performance? Being used in their high performance program and all?

Obviously the thousands of approved/legal alternatives don't have something that these mystical S0 substances do have.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

Obviously the thousands of approved/legal alternatives don't have something that these mystical S0 substances do have.

Lack of adequate testing?

 

[jenny61_99]

Lack of adequate testing?

Essendon goes, oh look - here's a drug, not finished clinical trials and not approved for human therapeutic use ANYWHERE in the world - let's use the ****er on our players!

 

[Whatsonswhat]

Essendon goes, oh look - here's a drug, not finished clinical trials and not approved for human therapeutic use ANYWHERE in the world - let's use the goose on our players!

Yeah I'm sure that's what they said. Hird probably wanted to lace it with drain cleaner too just to see what that did.

 

[jenny61_99]

Yeah I'm sure that's what they said. Hird probably wanted to lace it with drain cleaner too just to see what that did.

It wouldn't surprise me given he's allowed a dozen or so other compounds to be injected into your players for off label purpose.

Tell me genius, why do you think he allowed AOD9604 given he KNEW it hadn't completed clinical trials?

 

[Whatsonswhat]

It wouldn't surprise me given he's allowed a dozen or so other compounds to be injected into your players for off label purpose.

Tell me genius, why do you think he allowed AOD9604 given he KNEW it hadn't completed clinical trials?

Clearly he's an evil psychopath

 

[jenny61_99]

Clearly he's an evil psychopath

That's becoming more and more apparent.

Seriously? He's not evil, but his will to win "whatever it takes" seriously clouded his judgement.

 

[Jade]

And the HS are "official partners" of the EFC, so which do you think would be LESS biased Fairfax or the HS ???

So what? Most AFL clubs have 'some' level of sponsorship with the print media (both the Herald-Sun and The Age are common for the Melbourne sides). They do this in exchange for personnel access etc with the clubs - Ie. In Essendon's case an interview with Joe Daniher about how his preseason is progressing is 'likelier' to appear in News Ltd publications..... how surprising.

Not that it really matters, because that doesn't make the slightest difference in terms of 'real' interest; which is entirely driven by the readership of said print media.

 

[DonsRule]

It wouldn't surprise me given he's allowed a dozen or so other compounds to be injected into your players for off label purpose.

Tell me genius, why do you think he allowed AOD9604 given he KNEW it hadn't completed clinical trials?

To win games of football?

As I've said before though, all this rage, and the ones violated by this at this point, don't seem that concerned by it. I do think using AOD9604 was a mistake (though, less issue with the ones that used the cream, rather than injection) but, as aside from calling it a mistake on Hird, and Essendon's part, I can't pass the rage when the ones that have the right to feel angry, aren't. The rage is coming from people arguing on the internet, it's their right of course. But, I have more weight from those with the most to lose at this point.

 

[Jade]

Slovenly masses? Do you even live in Victoria??? Without wanting to get into a flame war about demographics, The hs is the paper of the dimwits.

Oh geez...... this is where BF, whose collective intelligence would struggle to screw in a lightbulb, tells us how smart it is, because it doesn't read the Herald-Sun.....

Yes, I live in Victoria - I read ALL footy related news (like a lot of serious football fans); regardless of the publication. Picking what to believe is entirely a different skill.

I know it must gall to be picked on for cheating but that's just the way it is. If anything what's surprising is that the hs chose essendon's side. Whether it was partisan to be on the other side of fairfax or simply because of essendon connections I don't know.

I say it again. The age would pick on any club cheating.

Sorry, you must have missed my post before, here, let me help you.

If you could be so kind as to point me in the direction of the guilty verdicts for doping I'd be much obliged...

For what it's worth the afl was in essendons side until Hird tried to take Demetriou with him.

Horseshit.

The AFL was on the AFLs side, which occasionally also aligned with Essendon's side.

 

[jenny61_99]

To win games of football?

As I've said before though, all this rage, and the ones violated by this at this point, don't seem that concerned by it. I do think using AOD9604 was a mistake (though, less issue with the ones that used the cream, rather than injection) but, as aside from calling it a mistake on Hird, and Essendon's part, I can't pass the rage when the ones that have the right to feel angry, aren't. The rage is coming from people arguing on the internet, it's their right of course. But, I have more weight from those with the most to lose at this point.

There can only be one answer for that DR - and I don't think you'll like it. They were complicit. You can't be outraged if you agreed to it in the first place.

 

[tigerwill]

To win games of football?

As I've said before though, all this rage, and the ones violated by this at this point, don't seem that concerned by it. I do think using AOD9604 was a mistake (though, less issue with the ones that used the cream, rather than injection) but, as aside from calling it a mistake on Hird, and Essendon's part, I can't pass the rage when the ones that have the right to feel angry, aren't. The rage is coming from people arguing on the internet, it's their right of course. But, I have more weight from those with the most to lose at this point.

Not so sure about it being "rage" so much, but "concern" is appropriate.
Surely Essendon supporters have their concerns regarding what was actually "ingested", injected or prescribed to their own players. Given that the club has made it known that they can't be sure of the supplements/drugs that were involved.Even though the players have toed the club line, (may be more in hope than ignorance of what they were given) it would be interesting to know what they were feeling privately. I'm sure some would have some concerns or doubts. Why else would Essendon say they'd continue to monitor players health and wellbeing?

 

[DonsRule]

There can only be one answer for that DR - and I don't think you'll like it. They were complicit. You can't be outraged if you agreed to it in the first place.

Actually, I agree that is possible.
I think that is a more likely explanation than the rage that is singled at Hird at this point. However, it is also possible, they are just satisfied with the information they are given.

 

[Jade]

There can only be one answer for that DR - and I don't think you'll like it. They were complicit. You can't be outraged if you agreed to it in the first place.

40 players complicit in a doping ring, and (supposedly) not one of them decided to throw themselves at the mercy of ASADA by turning rat?

No, I think what they've ACTUALLY said is far more likely, that this has been blown monumentally out of proportion. Actions speak louder than words, and that appears to be a calm and happy playing group.

 

[jenny61_99]

40 players complicit in a doping ring, and (supposedly) not one of them decided to throw themselves at the mercy of ASADA by turning rat?

No, I think what they've ACTUALLY said is far more likely, that this has been blown monumentally out of proportion. Actions speak louder than words, and that appears to be a calm and happy playing group.

What do you think will happen if infraction notices are issued for some but not all players?

 

[tigerwill]

Oh geez...... this is where BF, whose collective intelligence would struggle to screw in a lightbulb, tells us how smart it is, because it doesn't read the Herald-Sun.....

Yes, I live in Victoria - I read ALL footy related news (like a lot of serious football fans); regardless of the publication. Picking what to believe is entirely a different skill.

Hey ease up mate. Most people know most light bulbs are bayonet cap, ie push & turn.

But I agree with the last part, most footy fans will read footy related news. Then it depends on the journo, at times. Read what you want, believe what you will.

 

[DonsRule]

Not so sure about it being "rage" so much, but "concern" is appropriate.
Surely Essendon supporters have their concerns regarding what was actually "ingested", injected or prescribed to their own players. Given that the club has made it known that they can't be sure of the supplements/drugs that were involved.Even though the players have toed the club line, (may be more in hope than ignorance of what they were given) it would be interesting to know what they were feeling privately. I'm sure some would have some concerns or doubts. Why else would Essendon say they'd continue to monitor players health and wellbeing?

Is it a concern, of course. That's why I'm happy to accept the penalties given to Essendon, Hird etc, I don't particularly like the processes that got them there, though. Essendon screwed up, Hird screwed up, hard to say they didn't. I just don't think (personal judgement of course) they stuffed up as much as some are claiming. Martin Hardie, who as I have mentioned before, has suggested Essendon had records of what players took. Something just doesn't add up to the picture we're being given.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

I am happy to know that all the supplements we have taken are all legal and won't affect the players long term health.

 

[Jade]

Not so sure about it being "rage" so much, but "concern" is appropriate.
Surely Essendon supporters have their concerns regarding what was actually "ingested", injected or prescribed to their own players. Given that the club has made it known that they can't be sure of the supplements/drugs that were involved.Even though the players have toed the club line, (may be more in hope than ignorance of what they were given) it would be interesting to know what they were feeling privately. I'm sure some would have some concerns or doubts. Why else would Essendon say they'd continue to monitor players health and wellbeing?

Of course. You'll find several posts from yours truly that expresses concern for what was administered, the processes undertaken, questions for the board etc etc....

Certainly doesn't excuse the utter idiocy seen far too often on this board though.