Retired # 2: Tom Bellchambers - Knocks Cam Mooney the **** out - 24/5

[rines]

Bit of a myth this I think....the days of Jeff White, McKernan etc jumping into people of 30 yard run ups and ruckmen doing PCL's every week are gone. Centre bounces are still tough bur JD can actually jump so he'll get over the top of most blokes anyway.

I'd rather go body to body at a throw in or ball-up than prop in front of a pack with a bunch of blokes jumping into my kidneys and trying to know my head off to spoil the ball...

Mmmmmm, maybe I just would prefer TBell over Ambrose full stop.

I get that Ambrose is 'exciting' and shiny and new.. but TBell is a tried and tested Ruck/Forward... and I believe on the verge of stepping into the best years of his career..

 

[yaco55]

And a skinny kid getting smashed in the ruck whenever he pinch-hits does not make for a balanced team.

So we are going to play a ruck in T-Bell, predominantly as a key forward. A winning forward line ! people are forgetting that last year we played Hurley/Crameri/and the resting ruck as our talls which gave us two mobile types and one less so. To in 2014, playing one mobile tall Carlisle and two less mobile types in JD/T-Bell

I am more than happy to play JD in the ruck as is the coaching team. As long as JD neutralises the ruck contests, and he does win the ball around the ground.

And Ryder is far more value when he does most of the rucking. So we win in the forward line and the ruck.

At the end of the day T-BELL is a ruck and not a key forward.

 

[yaco55]

Having now seen and been surprised by how much running Jake and JD do up the ground and back I'm more confident than I was before that TBC can play with these two. Not as vastly different to the Hawthorn set-up as I would have said a week ago.

The difference with the Hawthorn set up is that Roughead and Franklin are better players and Franklin plays as a small. We need to look at the characteristics of the players and their PROVEN ability.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

So we are going to play a ruck in T-Bell, predominantly as a key forward. A winning forward line ! people are forgetting that last year we played Hurley/Crameri/and the resting ruck as our talls which gave us two mobile types and one less so. To in 2014, playing one mobile tall Carlisle and two less mobile types in JD/T-Bell

I am more than happy to play JD in the ruck as is the coaching team. As long as JD neutralises the ruck contests, and he does win the ball around the ground.

And Ryder is far more value when he does most of the rucking. So we win in the forward line and the ruck.

At the end of the day T-BELL is a ruck and not a key forward.

Are you saying JD is not mobile? I think we can fit T-Bell, Ryder, JD and Carlisle all in the same team with at least 3 of them boys in the forward line at any one time. T-Bell is a very competent forward, almost as effective in the forward line as in the ruck really...

 

[eth-dog]

So we are going to play a ruck in T-Bell, predominantly as a key forward. A winning forward line ! people are forgetting that last year we played Hurley/Crameri/and the resting ruck as our talls which gave us two mobile types and one less so. To in 2014, playing one mobile tall Carlisle and two less mobile types in JD/T-Bell

I am more than happy to play JD in the ruck as is the coaching team. As long as JD neutralises the ruck contests, and he does win the ball around the ground.

And Ryder is far more value when he does most of the rucking. So we win in the forward line and the ruck.

At the end of the day T-BELL is a ruck and not a key forward.

Essendon leading goalkickers still at the club in 2013:

1. Tom Bellchambers (28)

 

[Essendonia]

Essendon leading goalkickers still at the club in 2013:

1. Tom Bellchambers (28)

He wasn't a leading goalkicker...get your point though.

 

[eth-dog]

He wasn't a leading goalkicker...get your point though.

Go ahead and re-read what I said

 

[Essendonia]

Go ahead and re-read what I said

If you mean EFC 2013 leading goalkickers still at the club in 2014, that's what you should have said. Your sentence does not convey this. I already gave you the benefit of the doubt, but don't get me to re-read stuff when I took your meaning from it already.

 

[Loonerty]

If you mean EFC 2013 leading goalkickers still at the club in 2014, that's what you should have said. Your sentence does not convey this. I already gave you the benefit of the doubt, but don't get me to re-read stuff when I took your meaning from it already.

His sentence absolutely does convey that. That's how I read it immediately.

 

[Essendonia]

His sentence absolutely does convey that. That's how I read it immediately.

Essendon leading goalkickers still at the club in 2013:

1. Tom Bellchambers (28)


No, what it conveys is that Tom Bellchambers was one of a group of leading goalkickers at the club before 2013 and he is the only one remaining at the club in 2013.

 

[Loonerty]

Essendon leading goalkickers still at the club in 2013:

1. Tom Bellchambers (28)


No, what it conveys is that Tom Bellchambers was one of a group of leading goalkickers at the club before 2013 and he is the only one remaining at the club in 2013.

Given the context surely you can understand what he was saying though.

Could just be that your brain interprets it differently to how I did, but I thought it was pretty clear what his point was.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Contextually it was clear, semantically it was not.

Everyone wins!

 

[Essendonia]

Given the context surely you can understand what he was saying though.

Could just be that your brain interprets it differently to how I did, but I thought it was pretty clear what his point was.

Given my immediate post saying "I know what you mean though", I did understand what he meant, and it was he himself (and now you) who have brought it this far!

 

[Keystone agony]

I think with us playing Ambrose ATM it means we will look for a 3 tall pronged attack in JoeD, Carlisle and TBC. However i think against good rebounding sides later in the season will get found out and we will back to just 2 of them.

Carlisle was a medium sized forward who has excellent athletic capabilities and was quite agile. The others mentioned are all completely different. I think its why we have Ambrose playing at the moment as that 3rd tall forward he replaces Crameri.

The other way we could potentially go is JoeD, TBC and Ambrose forward. Carlisle back with Hurley and Hooker. See what Fletch can do, maybe means a Hibberd or Dempsey becomes involved heavily in the midfield ideally that would be Hibberd.

I think comparing Crameri to a TBC/JoeD is silly as they are completely different types as to why one can play because the other did the year befor in the same structured forward line.

 

[fishardansin]

I think if Ambrose does enough we could have the perfect set-up in our back line once Fletch retires (I say it every year but this is his last, surely?). He looks to me like a much more aerobically fit Crameri, but maybe without the explosiveness of him. Good dukes, but haven't seen his goalkicking. Hopefully better than Mr. FTB (flat track bully)

Do you mean Hurley, Hooker and Pears or Carlisle? I can see the first two working with either of the other two with Hurley able to play against a beast or 3rd tall.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

As long as JD neutralises the ruck contests

And when he doesn't?

He recorded one hitout on Friday night. One. That's as many as Goldstein had arms.

 

[carnthedons]

And when he doesn't?

He recorded one hitout on Friday night. One. That's as many as Goldstein had arms.

It's also half as many as Bark Maguley

 

[eth-dog]

Do you mean Hurley, Hooker and Pears or Carlisle? I can see the first two working with either of the other two with Hurley able to play against a beast or 3rd tall.

Hurley/Hooker/Carlisle of course, as I've said only 1000 times before

 

[Vander18]

Essendon leading goalkickers still at the club in 2013:

1. Tom Bellchambers (28)

Not really an argument that he should play...damns him with faint praise if anything.....

 

[Vander18]

The difference with the Hawthorn set up is that Roughead and Franklin are better players and Franklin plays as a small. We need to look at the characteristics of the players and their PROVEN ability.

Of course they are better but that's not a guarantee it will fail for us and the fact Franklin plays small for his size and can't pack mark just means JD and Carlisle can do something he can't...I think that's a good thing isn't it?

It worked at Hawthorn because Roughead and Franklin can find the footy on the ground and apply pressure as well as much smaller players....JD and Carlisle can also do this to some extent, certainly much better than the average 200 cm player. To what extent is uncertain (to me anyway) and that will determine whether TBC can play with them or not. I've always thought it couldn't work, but what I saw Friday night gave me pause to think it's worth trying.

It's worth trying because playing Ryder and TBC can give us a real competitive advantage. When Ryder rests, TBC can then:

• Dominate an inferior second ruckman; or
• Run the opposition first ruck ragged if he's playing one out against us, leaving Ryder to jump all over him when he comes back fresh

If you think ruckman are important, which I do, then you have to think that this could be the difference in tight games where every little advantage can be critical.

Where we agree is that it would be folly to keep trying to make it work just to play TBC....if doesn't click then we may well have a very good player playing VFL in the name of team balance. Agree that being one of the best 22 players doesn't mean an automatic place in the best 22.

 

[eth-dog]

Not really an argument that he should play...damns him with faint praise if anything.....

Fact: He is the best performed tall forward at Essendon

 

[Vander18]

Fact: He is the best performed tall forward at Essendon

Which is an indictment on our forward line last year, not a reason to automatically replicate it....

 

[eth-dog]

Which is an indictment on our forward line last year, not a reason to automatically replicate it....

Or, maybe we put the guy who can kick 35 goals (when playing a full season) in the forward line, while still playing 40-odd percent in the ruck...

 

[Vander18]

Or, maybe we put the guy who can kick 35 goals (when playing a full season) in the forward line, while still playing 40-odd percent in the ruck...

MAYBE we do, have advocated that we should try it....but kicking 28 goals last year doesn't make him a walk-up start in my book. It's something to try, not a no-brainer is all I'm suggesting.

 

[rines]

Don't get the TBell negativity.. the guys is about to hit the prime of his career.. he is a good to very good ruck and a solid forward at this stage. It is more than enough to see him in our best 22 and we are hoping he becomes a great ruck and good to very good forward this year.

You do not want to go up against good sides with only Ryder and a part timer.. not a good plan long term.

Yes we got away with it against North.. and we may get away with it a couple of times.. but I wouldn't want it to be our 'Plan A'.. too risky. See North as the example.. Goldie goes down but he has to play with one arm as you have no one else..