Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[_Mike_]

As we were talking about prelims (2008-2010) ... I assume that you are now talking about Eade?

Havent you heard, regardless of the situation we're in now, losing prelim after prelim is where its at?

 

[Toastman]

Don't kid yourself. McCartney and his approach had everything to do with Lake leaving, and his success at Hawthorn shows that a player's desire for personal success isn't mutually exclusive with the requirements for team success.

Also McCartney may be popular with some people on this Forum, but he is far from popular with a lot of supporters I know. The drop in game attendances shows there are more than a few supporters that have dropped off since he took over.

It also appears that I need to remind you that McCartney didn't take over a team at rock bottom, he lead us there.

What delusional nonsense. Lake wanted a flag and even the most embarrassing posters on here would admit that no coach could have taken the list we had at the end of Eades farce and turned it in to a flag within the remainder of Lakes career.

Macca took over a team of players past their prime or lacking the talent to be decent footballers. To say he led us to rock bottom is stupid, he turned up when we were already headed down and chose to do a proper ground up rebuild rather than steadying the team mid table with trades for mediocre players like Eade would have done.

 

[immortalmike]

What delusional nonsense. Lake wanted a flag and even the most embarrassing posters on here would admit that no coach could have taken the list we had at the end of Eades farce and turned it in to a flag within the remainder of Lakes career.

Macca took over a team of players past their prime or lacking the talent to be decent footballers. To say he led us to rock bottom is stupid, he turned up when we were already headed down and chose to do a proper ground up rebuild rather than steadying the team mid table with trades for mediocre players like Eade would have done.

Not true. There's no need to denigrate Eade in order to make your substantial and solid point.

 

[lachy]

What delusional nonsense. Lake wanted a flag and even the most embarrassing posters on here would admit that no coach could have taken the list we had at the end of Eades farce and turned it in to a flag within the remainder of Lakes career.

Macca took over a team of players past their prime or lacking the talent to be decent footballers. To say he led us to rock bottom is stupid, he turned up when we were already headed down and chose to do a proper ground up rebuild rather than steadying the team mid table with trades for mediocre players like Eade would have done.

The first parts of your post are accurate.

No one knows what Eade would have done as he was never given the opportunity to rebuild.

He topped up to try and win a flag and had a president at the beginning of 2011 state that is what he expected despite our obvious drop off in 2010

 

[Toastman]

Not true. There's no need to denigrate Eade in order to make your substantial and solid point.

But I always denigrate Eade. I'm not the only one either, look how many clubs have offered him a senior coaching job since we got rid of him. He was the problem not the solution in the three prelims due to his terrible drafting and development. At least it looks like we have that bit right this time around.

 

[immortalmike]

The first parts of your post are accurate.

No one knows what Eade would have done as he was never given the opportunity to rebuild.

He topped up to try and win a flag and had a president at the beginning of 2011 state that is what he expected despite our obvious drop off in 2010

Have it on pretty good authority Rocket advocated a large scale rebuild, similar to what McCartney has put in place.

 

[Dogs Rule]

A good coach would. This is not the first time, let alone club it's happened. to. Maybe the reasons they are upset are valid.

Maybe the players just needed a reality check and it sounds like that's what they've been given.

If some of them didn't like it, bad luck. I applaud McCartney for having the balls to give some of them the bollocking they deserved after this season.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

The first parts of your post are accurate.

No one knows what Eade would have done as he was never given the opportunity to rebuild.

He topped up to try and win a flag and had a president at the beginning of 2011 state that is what he expected despite our obvious drop off in 2010

indeed, i rate that brain fart as one of the stupidest things i have ever heard a president say. I saw the reality, and you could see he was pissed having to try for another dip when i don't think believed it was possible. I thought he did well just getting to the prelim to be honest. but the thumpings we got in the final rounds of the H&A were far more accurate as to where we were in comparison to the rest. I think eades wanted to start rebuilding in 2011, but was denied it. What he would have done from then on we will never know.

 

[immortalmike]

But I always denigrate Eade. I'm not the only one either, look how many clubs have offered him a senior coaching job since we got rid of him. He was the problem not the solution in the three prelims due to his terrible drafting and development. At least it looks like we have that bit right this time around.

How was drafting and development his fault?
Drafting was Clayton's fault and development was the fault of the administration (shoe-string budget). Eade had both hands tied behind his back. He was a very good coach who got the most he could out of our club, to disagree with that is to not understand the reality of what he faced daily compared to his peers.

 

[lachy]

indeed, i rate that brain fart as one of the stupidest things i have ever heard a president say. I saw the reality, and you could see he was pissed having to try for another dip when i don't think believed it was possible. I thought he did well just getting to the prelim to be honest. but the thumpings we got in the final rounds of the H&A were far more accurate as to where we were in comparison to the rest. I think eades wanted to start rebuilding in 2011, but was denied it. What he would have done from then on we will never know.

Coaches have very limited input to drafting, trading and development also requires resources. Eade had Clayton, Dalrymple and the Howard experiment and Fantasia with next to no resources.
Macca faces the same challenges with the exception of resources thanks to Gordon's money this year.

Do people actually know what a coach does?

 

[Next Waiting]

The cool aid isn't nealy as potent as the shit your smoken prof.

Worst three season in out history? This pretty much says it all, i should have stopped reading here.

tilting the earth to suit your needs much? a coach who is only 3 years into his senior coaching career, who unlike a certain other first time coach, didn't walk into a premiership team, but rather one that had hit rock bottom...yeah, lets just go back to that all precious win loss record that is the holy grail.

Lake walked out because he saw we were down and out and that his only two choices were to chase his own personal glory or help rebuild the club so that those who come after him can experience a bulldog premiership. He chose the selfish route and left to win one for himself. Right or wrong, it was the selfish route none the less. Had sweet FA to do with Macca. that was all just excuses.

By 'a lot of supporters' so you mean the half dozen haemorrhoids that keep needing a scratch on this thread? If you can't find ANY hope in where we have come from in three years...you wont ever find hope and you will be screaming the same crap with the next coach, and the next, and the next.

Kool-aiders, fence-sitters and no-hopers. It's a broad church...

 

[Proffessor]

woweeee..

those who think we've had the 3 worst seasons in club history havent done their homework or know little about the club...

3 worst seasons in history???

1980-1982 trumps the last 3 seasons by far.. Not only did we lose most of the games, we got flogged in lots of them..

In 1980 - 3rd last - 3 games lost by over 100 points
In 1981 - 2nd last - no 100+ point losses but average loss of 50+ points
In 1982 - Spoon - 2 games lost by 140 points, 1 by 130 points, 1 by 110 points

All under the coaching of Royce Hart.. If you think McCartney is bad you must have thought Hart was a great coach... One of the worst patches in our history was from the time Hart took over until the players revolted and Hampshire took over as player/coach in 83 until Malthouse was appointed in 84

I said 3 of the worst in our history rather that the 3 worst (although I think a fair argument could be mounted for the latter).

I witnessed most games during the 1980-1982 period and although they were bad they weren't as painful as our last three seasons.

Remember there were only 12 teams in the league, and no salary cap back in those days.
As one of the poorest clubs we were really up against it, and we didn't have 13-14 clubs finish above us either.

 

[immortalmike]

I said 3 of the worst in our history rather that the 3 worst (although I think a fair argument could be mounted for the latter).

I witnessed most games during the 1980-1982 period and although they were bad they weren't as painful as our last three seasons.

Remember there were only 12 teams in the league, and no salary cap back in those days.
As one of the poorest clubs we were really up against it, and we didn't have 13-14 clubs finish above us either.

Maybe you were just younger and filled with more hope?

 

[yebiga]

I imagine a senior coach would be interested enough to know who the recruiters have on their short list. I imagine Eade took at least as much interest as us bigfooty posters. I also imagine if he had the same reservation as us simple big footy posters had about Howard, the recruiters may have cast their eyes a little wider. Indeed, had Eade asked whether there weren't some taller guys around, considering how short we were, that the recruiters may well have provided him with an alternative short list.

I imagine if Eade took a little interest he may well have questioned why no one else was looking at this Howard fella. He may have even said, look , we will probably still be able to pick him up with our second round, lets look at someone more credentialed. At least, I imagine a good senior coach should have enough interest and enough sway to influence his recruiters who are making decisions which ultimately are more crucial than the decisions made by coaches.

But what do I know.

 

[immortalmike]

I imagine a senior coach would be interested enough to know who the recruiters have on their short list. I imagine Eade took at least as much interest as us bigfooty posters. I also imagine if he had the same reservation as us simple big footy posters had about Howard, the recruiters may have cast their eyes a little wider. Indeed, had Eade asked whether there weren't some taller guys around, considering how short we were, that the recruiters may well have provided him with an alternative short list.

I imagine if Eade took a little interest he may well have questioned why no one else was looking at this Howard fella. He may have even said, look , we will probably still be able to pick him up with our second round, lets look at someone more credentialed. At least, I imagine a good senior coach should have enough interest and enough sway to influence his recruiters who are making decisions which ultimately are more crucial than the decisions made by coaches.

But what do I know.

He would have been told that Adelaide were going to pick him with their pick after ours. He would have also been told that 14 out of the 15 shortlisted players we had, were already taken before our pick 15.

To answer your last question, not as much as those at the club.

 

[Proffessor]

Maybe you were just younger and filled with more hope?

I was obviously a lot younger. However, even though we were struggling and losing a lot back then, we were still trying hard as a club, not just treading water waiting for a distant future.

We have lost a lot more than games during the past three years.

 

[immortalmike]

I was obviously a lot younger. However, even though we were struggling and losing a lot back then, we were still trying hard as a club, not just treading water waiting for a distant future.

We have lost a lot more than games during the past three years.

Compared to the 80s and early 90s...no we haven't.

 

[yebiga]

Not true. There's no need to denigrate Eade in order to make your substantial and solid point.

I seem to remember lake and eade relationship broke down entirely in 2011
Didn't we get rid of eade to appease players and especially Lake
Pretty sure players were unhappy very unhappy with eade as 2011 progressed

 

[_Mike_]

I said 3 of the worst in our history rather that the 3 worst

Just a reminder on what you wrote...

The guy has overseen three of the worst seasons in the club's history, delivering results that would have seen him sacked well before now at most clubs.

What do you think that implies?

Generally you seem to have a problem with those in the camp who support the approach McCartney is taking, they are entitled to feel that way. On the other hand there are a few who do not like the current direction this rebuild is taking the club and they too are entitled to their opinion.

The fact that we had over 30000 members signup this year means that it is highly probably that the wider membership base see the bigger picture rather than continuing with the flawed band aid approach that you seemed to think was "success" under the Eade era.

 

[_Mike_]

I seem to remember lake and eade relationship broke down entirely in 2011
Didn't we get rid of eade to appease players and especially Lake
Pretty sure players were unhappy very unhappy with eade as 2011 progressed

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...rian-lake-injury/story-e6frf9jf-1226051267277

 

[ErnieSigley]

hahaha... Now Ive heard/read it all... We lost the 09 preliminary because of umpiring.


Those who think the game was lost for purely that reason probably didnt even watch the match

2009 Had more to do with poor umpiring than current senior players not stepping up.

 

[ErnieSigley]

As we were talking about prelims (2008-2010) ... I assume that you are now talking about Eade?

You need to ask others that brought up that era.
I'm talking present tense.

 

[ErnieSigley]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...rian-lake-injury/story-e6frf9jf-1226051267277

That article is from mid 2011.
That doesn't explain why Lake wanted to leave while Bmac at the end of 2012. Just a reminder Eade was gone.
Besides the Eade/Lake relationship was ok, more an issue was the Montgomery/Lake relationship.

 

[_Mike_]

That article is from mid 2011.
That doesn't explain why Lake wanted to leave while Bmac at the end of 2012. Just a reminder Eade was gone.
Besides the Eade/Lake relationship was ok, more an issue was the Montgomery/Lake relationship.

The article was in reference to Yebiga's comment regarding Lake and Eade in 2011.. That was pretty clear

 

[_Mike_]

2009 Had more to do with poor umpiring than current senior players not stepping up.

Lets agree to disagree on that one. Lake with another brain fade gifting a goal to Sookwoldt at the start of the third was a poor umpring decision? Lake got sucked in... Lake should have known better.

Players bombing long in to the forward 50 hoping that someone was going to take a mark? now who's direction was that? If not Eade's plan, the players were not listening...