Carlton in the Media (articles, podcasts etc)

[BlueJet]

You're assuming Mick voluntarily changed his mind about Brock.

Either way to knock Brock for doing the same thing MM did is a little unfair.

 

[etsal1]

Either way to knock Brock for doing the same thing MM did is a little unfair.

Agree.

My point was more about the assumption around the circumstances of Brock's delisting & Mick's role in it.

But as Zee said, he's gone & there's no point discussing it any longer.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Either way to knock Brock for doing the same thing MM did is a little unfair.

Context. Brock said he was told at a meeting 6 weeks out from season's end that they were looking at keeping him to mentor young players. This was with Mick, McKay, Buttifant and Rogers present. He said he walked away thinking he was wanted but aware it's not over until that contract is signed. That was his sole basis for this 'word' that Mick had given. Brock said this in mid September so it was obviously 6 weeks out from our season ending, so mid July.

By the start of October our trading strategy had to be adjusted and we got an extra player of McLean's style in the Jaksch trade. McKay told McLean his position was not safe and he was eventually delisted a full 3 months after that chat with the 4 Carlton officials.

Waite went to Mick's house a week before he officially signed for North.

Now you tell me that Mick knew Brock was out when he told him he was required 3 months prior or tell me that Waite did not know he was going to North a week before he signed. Then you can keep repeating the 'same thing' mantra.

 

[Azul]

Ranking 18th ( last) in averages doesn't seem to mean much - when the difference between top and bottom is all of 2 tackles per game. Carlton also came last in handballs and disposals per game - but ranked top4 in restricting opponents handballs and disposals. All in all defensive effort I suspect isn't the reason why Carlton didn't play finals.

We're down on most areas of the game as reflected by our ladder position. One can dismiss such things as statistically insignificant or seek to address each and every KPI across the board.

All in all defensive effort I suspect isn't the reason why Carlton didn't play finals.

We didn't play finals mainly because we gave the competition a 4 week head start.

At the same time, we had the 5th worst points against. Stingy defences have been a hallmark of Mick's premiership sides but I wouldn't blame the back 6.

 

[JustaBattler]

We're down on most areas of the game as reflected by our ladder position. One can dismiss such things as statistically insignificant or seek to address each and every KPI across the board.



We didn't play finals mainly because we gave the competition a 4 week head start.

At the same time, we had the 5th worst points against. Stingy defences have been a hallmark of Mick's premiership sides but I wouldn't blame the back 6.

You purport to use statistics to make an argument regarding tackling - I show you how statistics show that defense wasn't an issue you made it out to be...

now you tell me it was the first four losses... but that begs a question..

doesn't it?

 

[Azul]

You purport to use statistics to make an argument regarding tackling - I show you how statistics show that defense wasn't an issue you made it out to be...

now you tell me it was the first four losses... but that begs a question..

The round 4 loss to Melbourne was one of the more half-arsed efforts in recent memory, where the Ds laid 84 tackles to 65.

We could cherry-pick stats all night. My point is, we need to get better at all of them across the board. Don't dismiss finishing 18th in a category as something we shouldn't get better at.

 

[footyfan1978]

MM had a whinge about Waite going back on his word but does the same thing a matter of weeks later.
As for "rant" I don't think what Brock had to say was too bad at all, he was disappointed and justifiably so, just as MM was about Waites decision. Either both are right to air their frustrations or neither are, we can't have a double standard just because one is still affiliated by the club.

Yeah. That pissed me off the way Malthouse carried on. Waite never said for sure he was staying. I get the feeling he wanted to stay if he felt he was still valued but obviously the meeting with Mick did not exactly convince him. On top of that he said he wanted a two year contract. We only offered him one and probably clauses about number of games. Yeah, he has had his issues getting on the park regularly in last 4 or 5 years and not played as many games as you want for a player of his ability. However, on the flipside when I watched him this year, I thought he still looks as fresh as any fast player in his mid twenties. Still had his full leap and not lost a yard of pace at all. Probably the most likely 31 year old to play two more years probably because he has not had his joints have as much wear and tear in last few years. I reckon he could easily have played two more years. When on song only really Franklin and Roughy can make key defenders look as helpless as Waite can do when he has played a bit of footy.
But I also understand the club only offering one. As a result North showed more confidence in two years from him and he decided to take it. He said as much at his press conference. He also did not get caught up in Malthouse nonsense. No bad blood from his end so Malthouse carried on like an idiot. Meanwhile Brock did not get any contract and fair enough he would be a bit peeved considering the talk originally was they wanted him to go on. Brocks always been a person to speak his mind and sometimes in a heated way. If Malthouse carried on about McLean being upset he needs to have a good look in mirror of way he reacts sometimes.

Malthouse just needs to pull his head in and realize he needs to learn to be a better coach. 30 years as a coach and only 3 premierships is no reason to think you know it all..

 

[etsal1]

Oh dear me.

 

[BlueJet]

Context. Brock said he was told at a meeting 6 weeks out from season's end that they were looking at keeping him to mentor young players. This was with Mick, McKay, Buttifant and Rogers present. He said he walked away thinking he was wanted but aware it's not over until that contract is signed. That was his sole basis for this 'word' that Mick had given. Brock said this in mid September so it was obviously 6 weeks out from our season ending, so mid July.

By the start of October our trading strategy had to be adjusted and we got an extra player of McLean's style in the Jaksch trade. McKay told McLean his position was not safe and he was eventually delisted a full 3 months after that chat with the 4 Carlton officials.

Waite went to Mick's house a week before he officially signed for North.

Now you tell me that Mick knew Brock was out when he told him he was required 3 months prior or tell me that Waite did not know he was going to North a week before he signed. Then you can keep repeating the 'same thing' mantra.

If you're going to preach the value of someones "word", you have to stay true to yours otherwise you're a blatant hypocrite, which was the whole point of contention with the other poster.
The whole basis of a contract is to lock both parties into working terms, it still didn't stop MM and others knocking Waite (and his partner) for the fact that as a free-agent he opted to seek pastures new.
McLean displayed displeasure at not continuing on at Carlton and didn't even try to spin shit to make himself look better (he mentioned bickering with McKay) so unless people want to be spoon-fed propaganda about how perfect our club is, it's all pretty understandable given what we know of Brock as a straight shooter.
As others have said though, lingering on past players is of no use & bickering about things outside of our control does none of us any good.

 

[ESKIE]

Oh dear me as well

 

[KnobHead]

Macca toldBrock he wasn't getting a new contract, & it wasn't really related to footy

Waite different scenario

 

[JustaBattler]

The round 4 loss to Melbourne was one of the more half-arsed efforts in recent memory, where the Ds laid 84 tackles to 65.

We could cherry-pick stats all night. My point is, we need to get better at all of them across the board. Don't dismiss finishing 18th in a category as something we shouldn't get better at.

Well even here you are (on the evidence) and in practical coaching terms mistaken again.

What statistics or KPIs are meaningful depends on the stye of game a team plays and the game plan against any given opponent on any day - except for one - and that is the team that scores the most wins - which people don't like talking about much because they see scoring as an outcome not an input.

 

[etsal1]

Macca toldBrock he wasn't getting a new contract, & it wasn't really related to footy

Waite different scenario

Don't bother knobby, it's easier for some to use this as another way to bash Mick.

 

[JamisonRun40]

I feel like it is Groundhog Day when I came onto this thread or someone is flogging the same dead horse which is pretty apt as it being Melbourne Cup week.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

I suppose we can be thankful that the biggest scandal we're going have this off-season is 'Brockgate'

So help me god if Bryce Gibbs is involved in a brawl at a Big Day Out .. Gibbs is like our Golden Child, the type of bloke you'd be happy your Sister to marry ..

Finally I want to apologize if i offended anyone about my opinions on Brock, i think i was a fair bit too harsh on him in hindsight, and i didn't make allowances that he probably rightfully be feeling a bit betrayed and hurting. And certainly when it comes to player/coach/club loyalty IE Waite and Mick, its a 2 way street.

Waite and Brock should still be welcome back at club functions in future years IMO.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

I suppose we can be thankful that the biggest scandal we're going have this off-season is 'Brockgate'

So help me god if Bryce Gibbs is involved in a brawl at a Big Day Out .. Gibbs is like our Golden Child, the type of bloke you'd be happy your Sister to marry ..

Finally I want to apologize if i offended anyone about my opinions on Brock, i think i was a fair bit too harsh on him in hindsight, and i didn't make allowances that he probably rightfully be feeling a bit betrayed and hurting. And certainly when it comes to player/coach/club loyalty IE Waite and Mick, its a 2 way street.

Waite and Brock should still be welcome back at club functions in future years IMO.

I don't want my sister marrying someone who uses more hair product than her....

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I don't want my sister marrying someone who uses more hair product than her....

Is it product? His hair just looks filthy to me.

 

[Big Sim]

Oh dear me as well

I am going the full oh dear oh dear oh dear.

 

[JamisonRun40]

I love Bryce's hair but he needs another headband though. I always thought it was either Murphy you would want your sister to marry.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

If you're going to preach the value of someones "word", you have to stay true to yours otherwise you're a blatant hypocrite, which was the whole point of contention with the other poster.
The whole basis of a contract is to lock both parties into working terms, it still didn't stop MM and others knocking Waite (and his partner) for the fact that as a free-agent he opted to seek pastures new.
McLean displayed displeasure at not continuing on at Carlton and didn't even try to spin shit to make himself look better (he mentioned bickering with McKay) so unless people want to be spoon-fed propaganda about how perfect our club is, it's all pretty understandable given what we know of Brock as a straight shooter.
As others have said though, lingering on past players is of no use & bickering about things outside of our control does none of us any good.

I reckon you have deliberately ignored the context I keep reposting. A change in plan 3 months after a nod in which McLean himself said it is not done until it is signed i.e no word given, just a strong positive indication vs a face to face meeting 1 week before leaving and no indication given that he was leaving.

Mick said he wasn't in the habit of inviting players to his home to let them know they were required, when that player had already made up his mind to go but not told them. When Mick met with Brock, he saw a spot for him next year. 3 months including the swings and roundabouts of a trade week is a bloody long time in football.

The club expressed disappointment about Waite leaving due to us wanting him to stay and him having strong ties to the club. He was only bagged by Mick for not being upfront when meeting with him a week before he left.

 

[footyfan1978]

Mick said he wasn't in the habit of inviting players to his home to let them know they were required, when that player had already made up his mind to go but not told them.

The club expressed disappointment about Waite leaving due to us wanting him to stay and him having strong ties to the club. He was only bagged by Mick for not being upfront when meeting with him a week before he left.

hmmm. In what way do we know that Waite had made up his mind then ? I seriously doubt he had.
I however suspect AFTER his meeting with Mick that he did not feel overly valued and on top of that with only a one year contract put on table after that he decided North valued him more to do something with his last two seasons. I think that is when he made his mind up. He did say even after he went to North he wanted to remain a one club player but the one year contract offer is why he decided to leave. He felt he could play two more at Carlton.

I don't buy Mick's warped version of events for one moment. If he and Carlton had made him feel like he was a big part of plans for forward line for next two seasons and how him , Hendo and Casboult could work together in that time to give us best chance of success, I have little doubt he would have stayed. I suspect Mick just did not overly impress Waitey in the last meeting that he was truly valued to be part of the plans.

 

[HARKER]

hmmm. In what way do we know that Waite had made up his mind then ? I seriously doubt he had.
I however suspect AFTER his meeting with Mick that he did not feel overly valued and on top of that with only a one year contract put on table after that he decided North valued him more to do something with his last two seasons. I think that is when he made his mind up. He did say even after he went to North he wanted to remain a one club player but the one year contract offer is why he decided to leave.

I don't buy Mick's warped version of events for one moment.

Club had a very good idea that Waite would go and why he would go.

One year with kick-in was on the table. That's it. However Malthouse's discussions went with Waite is between them two, I guess.

All due respect to Mick but he hasn't always been completely up-front.

 

[footyfan1978]

Malthouse's discussions went with Waite is between them two, I guess.

All due respect to Mick but he hasn't always been completely up-front.

Exactly. Malthouse should have shut his trap instead of carrying on like a bloody clown.
We do not know what was discussed between Waite and Malthouse.
However, the fact that Waite decided to leave makes me think Malthouse did not impress him that it was worth signing on for only one year.
I suspect if Malthouse was not coach Waite would have played out his career at Carlton. Anyway, it is done now. Good luck to him. We now have to work with likes of Jaksch for long term. 2015 looks to be a re-build of forward line for most part.

 

[HARKER]

Exactly. Malthouse should have shut his trap instead of carrying on like a bloody clown.
We do not know what was discussed between Waite and Malthouse.
However, the fact that Waite decided to leave makes me think Malthouse did not impress him that it was worth signing on for only one year.
I suspect if Malthouse was not coach Waite would have played out his career at Carlton. Anyway, it is done now. Good luck to him. We now have to work with likes of Jaksch for long term. 2015 looks to be a re-build of forward line for most part.

Carlton wanted Waite for one year+ and family Waite wanted a minimum of two years guaranteed.

I'm glad we held our ground but no doubt there will be times next year, we'll wish we had him.

 

[BlueJet]

I reckon you have deliberately ignored the context I keep reposting. A change in plan 3 months after a nod in which McLean himself said it is not done until it is signed i.e no word given, just a strong positive indication vs a face to face meeting 1 week before leaving and no indication given that he was leaving.

Mick said he wasn't in the habit of inviting players to his home to let them know they were required, when that player had already made up his mind to go but not told them. When Mick met with Brock, he saw a spot for him next year. 3 months including the swings and roundabouts of a trade week is a bloody long time in football.

The club expressed disappointment about Waite leaving due to us wanting him to stay and him having strong ties to the club. He was only bagged by Mick for not being upfront when meeting with him a week before he left.

I haven't deliberately ignored anything any more than you have but this has gone around and around enough. Clearly we have differing perspectives on this and that is fair enough.
Brock has gone, Waite has gone bickering after the fact doesn't change anything.