Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[cartwright]

What the hell?...

you seem surprised,

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Your analogy is shitty.

Where does someone's value come from in sport?

Your analogy was you misunderstanding what Maggie was saying. And telling her that if she is going to campaign for women to be paid slightly closer to men, she should fight for men to be paid as much as men...

A position that literally no womab could ever get to. No matter how good or how valuable she is.

Hopefully MMA will start to influence the more barbaric sports and help them catch up.

Also, you're stupid.

You still dont understand.
It's really simple and there is no point explaining it any further

 

[CM86]

You still dont understand.
It's really simple and there is no point explaining it any further

Haha. No. Your analogy was shitty.

And saying that feminists don't understand the difference between economics and discrimination is what made me call you stupid. (It wasn't just your shitty analogy).

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Haha. No. Your analogy was shitty.

And saying that feminists don't understand the difference between economics and discrimination is what made me call you stupid. (It wasn't just your shitty analogy).

If you need someone to explain how a sports persons worth or value is determined then there is no helping you.

Well do you believe in the wage gap like most feminists? To my knowledge thats a key pillar of the belief which can be explained with simple free market economics. Yet feminists claim its discrimination. And i'm the stupid one.

 

[CM86]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Failure -- and until such time as an admin chooses or not to destroy your claim, we move on to the real world of relevant discourse, differing perspectives and debate.

Richard Dawkins, scientist and rationalist destroys feminist dogma

Thoughts Docker Alyssa ?

How'd you go with this Dock-Lys?

Did you even hesistate for a second? Did you think maybe you should look deeper into something than just watching youtube videos?
Or have you just brushed it aside, like you do with so many facts, because it goes against your opinion?

I'm going to take a wild guess, and say you brushed it aside, and that you will use that video to support you again one day.

The law itself is the reason for that... We wouldn't know the true breakdown until there is legal equality under sentencing, and more belief, understanding and education in the experiences of men that are subject to this same traumatic event known as rape when its on the other genders foot. I never once said that women are the majority of sexual assault perpetrators, nor that there are stats that say men aren't.

It's simple enough you shouldn't be able to strawman, but work your magic! -- 1) The old definition said that zero women could rape a man herself, with her own person enacting the event, because it said rape was "of a woman". Obviously that inherantly skews rape statistics going back into our history -- 2) The new definition says the man must be anally penetrated by a woman. Nothing about forcing him to penetrate her. No mention of legal standing regarding that, which is the reverse of man on woman rape -- 3) Then you have the penetrative act made genderless, but only insofar as it relegates gay and straight on straight forced sex as rape now, instead of sexual assault -- This is the one good part, that men are punished equally for raping men and women.

But, and I would go as far as to accuse feminist lobby groups, this was their intention because they specifically act for benefit of women -- When you continue to call rape a "penetrative" act in written law this is intentionally bias because they know men commit it upon men and women, thus inflating the "male are rapists" stigma stats going forward, where they already indoctrinated society based on antiquated systems -- and the kicker, a little bonus, keeping themselves protected from that rape definition in the vast majority of female-on-male forced sex cases.

As you defended one time, a woman date raping a man (again that is MY classification of it, the law is nowhere saying she r*ped) isn't immune from punishment, but that it be merely classified in most western countries including ours as "sexual assault" and not rape, is pathetic. Just for being that gender -- she will receive at least half the sentence of a man committing the same crime the other way. Where his will be considered rape, not sexual assault. If one is A amount of bad, so should B also be.

This is injustice. Point to any argument that says otherwise? I'll take even shitty feminist sophistry over the silence and deflection so far

Here again you are just using your opinion... and extrapolating to make a point and act as though it's fact...

Rape, sexual assault, whatever the term used... Males are the main perpetrators ...


Find a woman who puts her dick into someone, and she will be sentenced the same way as a man putting his dick in someone.

There are inconsistencies in crime and punishment, and I wish they would be stamped out.
But it's partly to do with our matriarchal society.
For some reason, we view a female teacher having sex with a student to be less of a crime than a male teacher having sex with a student. (Why don't you jump on this, instead of your "men aren't the majority perpetrates of sexual assault"?)


But trying to say that we only think men are the main offenders, because of feminism, is ****ing stupid.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

This post is just riddled with ****...

Campaigner...

It also ignores the fact that the majority of partners who help a molester cover their tracks have been abused themselves - whether physically, sexually or (most commonly) psychologically - by the molester, which gets them to the point of not speaking up.

As I alluded to in my earlier post, the grooming process is as much about establishing trust with the child's family as with the child themselves. When this trust is broken, really all the molester has left to control the victim(s) with is fear, which can be pretty bloody powerful, especially from someone you love i.e. your partner.

Not saying there aren't couples out there that work in tandem, as in situations where both can be thought of equally as abusers, but I'd say it is a distinct minority.

 

[CM86]

If you need someone to explain how a sports persons worth or value is determined then there is no helping you.

Well do you believe in the wage gap like most feminists? To my knowledge thats a key pillar of the belief which can be explained with simple free market economics. Yet feminists claim its discrimination. And i'm the stupid one.

There is no helping me? Because I'm perfect! Thanks so much for the compliment
You're still stupid.

A sports persons worth is very much based on how good they are...
You think you can make it to the top levels of a sport by being OK... but getting the team a great deal at Sizzlers?

Huh "like most feminists"? You're already changing it from being all feminists to most... Back peddling!


I believe there is a wage gap, in that in some areas women are not judged to be as valuable as men, and are offered less money.

And i'm the stupid one.

Finally, we agree on something!

 

[CM86]

It also ignores the fact that the majority of partners who help a molester cover their tracks have been abused themselves - whether physically, sexually or (most commonly) psychologically - by the molester, which gets them to the point of not speaking up.

As I alluded to in my earlier post, the grooming process is as much about establishing trust with the child's family as with the child themselves. When this trust is broken, really all the molester has left to control the victim(s) with is fear, which can be pretty bloody powerful, especially from someone you love i.e. your partner.

Not saying there aren't couples out there that work in tandem, as in situations where both can be thought of equally as abusers, but I'd say it is a distinct minority.

It's heinous.

There was an uncle who would have the sister groom the younger sister. He wouldn't leave the sister alone until she had prepared the next one.
Whole family covered it up, because they thought it would kill the grandparents to find out their son could do such a thing...

Sick society we live in.

 

[Maggie5]

And i'm the stupid one.

The answer is still Yes.

 

[romeohwho]

Gotta love this thread.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

The answer is still Yes.

Ive yet to see you actually do anything in this thread besides circle jerk and scoff off other peoples opinions/arguments without putting up any of your own.

 

[CM86]

Ive yet to see you actually do anything in this thread besides circle jerk and scoff off other peoples opinions/arguments without putting up any of your own.

Sounds like your problem...

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Sounds like your problem...

Go back to arguing straw men about sizzler and shaking off any actual argument with your standard "ppft i'm right" answer.

 

[CM86]

Go back to arguing straw men about sizzler and shaking off any actual argument with your standard "ppft i'm right" answer.

So... your point is...

I argued my point... you ran away... now you bring up straw men arguments and tell me I have a standard argument answer?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

So... your point is...

I argued my point... you ran away... now you bring up straw men arguments and tell me I have a standard argument answer?

You didnt argue shit.

You lacked the neccessary comprehension for me to bother explaining myself further. Started talking about sizzler bullshit - i.e taking my argument completely out of context and putting words in my mouth that I never said.

Yeah congrats you dont get paid for a good deal at sizzler.

Thats not what i said. Pity you're too stupid to comprehend what I actually said.

 

[CM86]

You didnt argue shit.

You lacked the neccessary comprehension for me to bother explaining myself further. Started talking about sizzler bullshit - i.e taking my argument completely out of context and putting words in my mouth that I never said.

Yeah congrats you dont get paid for a good deal at sizzler.

Thats not what i said. Pity you're too stupid to comprehend what I actually said.

Speaking of being too stupid to comprehend what I actually said...
Here is the post again, that you keep refering to, but haven't replied to or quoted for some reason...

I'll bold the Sizzlers part for you to look at again.

There is no helping me? Because I'm perfect! Thanks so much for the compliment
You're still stupid.

A sports persons worth is very much based on how good they are...
You think you can make it to the top levels of a sport by being OK... but getting the team a great deal at Sizzlers?

Huh "like most feminists"? You're already changing it from being all feminists to most... Back peddling!


I believe there is a wage gap, in that in some areas women are not judged to be as valuable as men, and are offered less money.

And i'm the stupid one.

Finally, we agree on something!

 

[cartwright]

If you need someone to explain how a sports persons worth or value is determined then there is no helping you.

Well do you believe in the wage gap like most feminists? To my knowledge thats a key pillar of the belief which can be explained with simple free market economics. Yet feminists claim its discrimination. And i'm the stupid one.

I will ask again.
Why is there, on average a gap of $6000 for a school principal ?

Why was there an average gap of $4000 in 2009.

Why has this gap widened?

 

[Maggie5]

Ive yet to see you actually do anything in this thread besides circle jerk and scoff off other peoples opinions/arguments without putting up any of your own.

Thems the breaks, you obviously haven't gone through all the pages.

 

[Docker Alyssa]

Rape, sexual assault, whatever the term used... Males are the main perpetrators ...

I see you are so casual with definitions when trying to hammer a point? Rape and sexual assault, while both bad, one is clearly worse in sentencing. So it's important both genders suffer the same consequences.

And again, the wording of the law is the predominant reason for the reality that men get accused of it, and convicted of rape in so much more number. That no one who promotes feminism/defends it has a clear problem with the gender bias in rape law in western countries is the troubling element. And where the criticism rightly comes.

There are inconsistencies in crime and punishment, and I wish they would be stamped out. But it's partly to do with our matriarchal society.

1) For some reason, we view a female teacher having sex with a student to be less of a crime than a male teacher having sex with a student. (Why don't you jump on this, 2) instead of your "men aren't the majority perpetrates of sexual assault"?)

1) I had a giggle at this. I'll eventually jump on everything wrong with feminism that there is to say -- in this thread.

There's so much to cover from the movement of 3rd wave, so many double standards that are being codified and continue to be protected by womens groups -- it's hard to get it all in -- I think that perception about female teachers are harmless and male teachers are pedophiles (basically how its viewed) is about the irrational belief women are innocent victims and men are scum, which absolutely gets cemented each generation from feminist culture.

It would help if rape laws were worded to hold women to the same account as men under sentencing. The women in prison for that crime would rightly increase, the statistics would get more in touch with reality, and general views of the culture would be then that women can be viewed as rapists. Not just of committing "sexual assault"

2) I never said men aren't, and addressed so thoroughly enough.

Speaking of what's wrong with feminism. Feminists themselves pretty much dig their own grave of criticism.

• “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

• “To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -– Valerie Solanas

• “I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” -- Andrea Dworkin

• “Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” -- Susan Brownmiller

• “In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” -- Catherine MacKinnon

• “The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” -- Sally Miller Gearhart

• “Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience.” -- Catherine Comins
  
  
• “All men are rapists and that’s all they are” -- Marilyn French

Famous feminist quotes from famous and influential feminists through 2nd/3rd wave.

Don't you just long for the good old days when first wave seemed rational, fair, just and even egalitarian?

"I declare to you that woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself, and there I take my stand." -- Susan B Anthony
​

Here here. That's a feminist statement any egalitarian can get behind. Susan B Anthony would be rolling in her grave hearing all this #HeforShe nonsense

 

[CM86]

And again, the wording of the law is the predominant reason for the reality that men get accused of it, and convicted of rape in so much more number.

No... the wording of the law is not the reason that men are the main perpetrators of rape/sexual assault.
Men being the main perpetrators is the reason...


OK. Now I'll waste time looking at the rest of what you wrote.

I was right about Dawkins, hey?

 

[CM86]

I see you are so casual with definitions when trying to hammer a point? Rape and sexual assault, while both bad, one is clearly worse in sentencing. So it's important both genders suffer the same consequences.

And again, the wording of the law is the predominant reason for the reality that men get accused of it, and convicted of rape in so much more number. That no one who promotes feminism/defends it has a clear problem with the gender bias in rape law in western countries is the troubling element. And where the criticism rightly comes.



1) I had a giggle at this. I'll eventually jump on everything wrong with feminism that there is to say -- in this thread.

There's so much to cover from the movement of 3rd wave, so many double standards that are being codified and continue to be protected by womens groups -- it's hard to get it all in -- I think that perception about female teachers are harmless and male teachers are pedophiles (basically how its viewed) is about the irrational belief women are innocent victims and men are scum, which absolutely gets cemented each generation from feminist culture.

It would help if rape laws were worded to hold women to the same account as men under sentencing. The women in prison for that crime would rightly increase, the statistics would get more in touch with reality, and general views of the culture would be then that women can be viewed as rapists. Not just of committing "sexual assault"

2) I never said men aren't, and addressed so thoroughly enough.

Speaking of what's wrong with feminism. Feminists themselves pretty much dig their own grave of criticism.

• “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

• “To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -– Valerie Solanas

• “I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” -- Andrea Dworkin

• “Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” -- Susan Brownmiller

• “In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” -- Catherine MacKinnon

• “The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” -- Sally Miller Gearhart

• “Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience.” -- Catherine Comins
  
  
• “All men are rapists and that’s all they are” -- Marilyn French

Famous feminist quotes from famous and influential feminists through 2nd/3rd wave.

Don't you just long for the good old days when first wave seemed rational, fair, just and even egalitarian?

"I declare to you that woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself, and there I take my stand." -- Susan B Anthony
​

Here here. That's a feminist statement any egalitarian can get behind.Susan B Anthony would be rolling in her grave hearing all this #HeforShe nonsense

Seriously... I give you a position that you can use and run with... and you still trip on the rug and get your head up your arse...

And then you just spam a bunch of stupid quotes from dickheads?
What does it mean? What does it support?

So much meaningless bullshit...



Hear hear*

 

[Maggie5]

I see you are so casual with definitions when trying to hammer a point? Rape and sexual assault, while both bad, one is clearly worse in sentencing. So it's important both genders suffer the same consequences.

And again, the wording of the law is the predominant reason for the reality that men get accused of it, and convicted of rape in so much more number. That no one who promotes feminism/defends it has a clear problem with the gender bias in rape law in western countries is the troubling element. And where the criticism rightly comes.



1) I had a giggle at this. I'll eventually jump on everything wrong with feminism that there is to say -- in this thread.

There's so much to cover from the movement of 3rd wave, so many double standards that are being codified and continue to be protected by womens groups -- it's hard to get it all in -- I think that perception about female teachers are harmless and male teachers are pedophiles (basically how its viewed) is about the irrational belief women are innocent victims and men are scum, which absolutely gets cemented each generation from feminist culture.

It would help if rape laws were worded to hold women to the same account as men under sentencing. The women in prison for that crime would rightly increase, the statistics would get more in touch with reality, and general views of the culture would be then that women can be viewed as rapists. Not just of committing "sexual assault"

2) I never said men aren't, and addressed so thoroughly enough.

Speaking of what's wrong with feminism. Feminists themselves pretty much dig their own grave of criticism.

• “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

• “To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -– Valerie Solanas

• “I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” -- Andrea Dworkin

• “Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” -- Susan Brownmiller

• “In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” -- Catherine MacKinnon

• “The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” -- Sally Miller Gearhart

• “Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience.” -- Catherine Comins
  
  
• “All men are rapists and that’s all they are” -- Marilyn French

Famous feminist quotes from famous and influential feminists through 2nd/3rd wave.

Don't you just long for the good old days when first wave seemed rational, fair, just and even egalitarian?

"I declare to you that woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself, and there I take my stand." -- Susan B Anthony
​

Here here. That's a feminist statement any egalitarian can get behind. Susan B Anthony would be rolling in her grave hearing all this #HeforShe nonsense

Are these people that you are quoting anyone of note or just something you picked out from your favourite sites?

 

[tesseract]

You're welcome.

It doesn't surprise me, nor would it surprise many reading this thread, that you seem to take pride in not making sense.

 

[CM86]

It doesn't surprise me, nor would it surprise many reading this thread, that you seem to take pride in not making sense to me.

EFA, and damn straight!

 

[CM86]

Docker Alyssa did you see this post??? Did this do anything for your edification?

Laws and terminology differs from state to state and goes on description of the act. For example rape is not called rape in WA. It is sexual penetration without consent if there was penetration by penis, mouth, body part or object. Sexual assault if sexually abused. Aggravated sexual assault if victim was detained, injured erc. Indecent assault etc.

It is not called rape legally as there are differing types of sexual acts. Rape is a label society puts on the act.

http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/25. Sexual Offences/‘rape’-penetrative-sexual-offence

25.8 Under the common law, rape was defined as carnal knowledge of a woman against her will and was subject to narrow and restrictive definitions of ‘sexual intercourse’. Statutory extensions and modifications to the common law crime of rape have been made in all jurisdictions to varying degrees,[8] but with resulting inconsistency across jurisdictions.[9] The penetrative sexual offence is no longer gender-specific and, despite some inconsistencies, generally includes penetration of the genitalia[10] by a penis, object, part of a body or mouth.[11]

25.10 The penetrative sexual offence is described as: ‘rape’ in Victoria,[13] Queensland,[14] South Australia[15] and Tasmania;[16] ‘sexual assault’ in NSW;[17] ‘sexual intercourse without consent’ in the ACT and the Northern Territory;[18] and ‘sexual penetration without consent’ in Western Australia.[19] The offence includes the continuation of sexual intercourse after penetration in order to address cases where consent has subsequently been withdrawn.[20]