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Opinion Butcher

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Dylan8 said:
Another thought if it hasn't been mentioned is that he has played in the backlines for a month. Did very well in a position he hasn't played for some time.
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That would explain his punch out up forward today instead of marking :oops:
 
El_Scorcho said:
He offered something that none of our other forwards do, and that's a genuine overhead pack crashing contest.

He brought Westhoff into the game by taking defenders away.

We didn't have the usual uncontested opposition marks from out inside 50s.

He brought the smalls into the game around the hot spot.

He straightened us up and got us kicking to the hot spot and not the pockets. That created heaps of chances.

If he's doing that and averaging 10 touches, 4 marks and a goal, he's valuable. He's hugely valuable. The way he changed our forward entries made everything else click, and we looked better going forward than we have all year.

I hope some of the people who have argued about his potential influence were converted a bit tonight. That mobile, pack crashing big target could make our waivering gameplan look so much better.
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there is no denying he can take a big pack mark when he is more confident, and that he competes really well. When he kicked that goal i was cheering as loud as anyone. It was a great passage of play. he marked in the defensive half, then followed on and marked in the forward 50 and converted. it truly was a great moment. But ill stand by what ive always said, and that is that if you cant kick then you cant play as a key forward. Now if he was just a bit of a bad kick then id give him some latitude, but he is woeful at kicking. Id go as far as saying the worst in the AFL. Sometimes he is lucky to get the ball at all when he kicks. And cos of that, i have no hope tht he will be there long term. Im more on the play HArvey wagon, and thats not cos he is better now, its just cos he has a chance at a future.
 

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Hong-Kong Phooey said:
if he kicked like schulz then id give him a new contract
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So if it was up to you we would never have known about one of the best CHFs ever to play for Port Adelaide, or even ever, in Warren Gary Tredrea, cause he couldn't kick straight either.
 
Piston_Broke said:
So if it was up to you we would never have known about one of the best CHFs ever to play for Port Adelaide, or even ever, in Warren Gary Tredrea, cause he couldn't kick straight either.
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tredrea was a beautiful kick. he got the yips for a few years and he had a tendancy to kick it a bit too high, but he had a great action and the ball always spun well. Not the mention his capacity to snap from outside 50 from either his left or right hand side.
 
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PAFC66 said:
Do you guys reckon he is 100% delisted?
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if you look at the list, and see who is contracted and who isnt. Out of all the players that will come into consideration, he has to be pretty well set for delisting. May get a re-rookie, but i doubt it. Remember we have to make way on the list for minimum draft selections.
 
PAFC66 said:
Do you guys reckon he is 100% delisted?
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I called it in the podcast a couple of weeks ago that I thought he'd still be on the senior list next year, I was happy with that bet then, and I'm happier with it now.
 
Hong-Kong Phooey said:
tredrea was a beautiful kick. he got the yips for a few years and he had a tendancy to kick it a bit too high, but he had a great action and the ball always spun well. Not the mention his capacity to snap from outside 50 from either his left or right hand side. But what would i know, i have the worst footy knowledge on this whole board!! so your prob right.
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Tredders was a terrible set shot. To the point where it was widely called to drop him or send him back. Lucky enough for us he was persisted with. Unlucky for J.B. he has no such chance in your eyes.
 
Piston_Broke said:
Tredders was a terrible set shot. To the point where it was widely called to drop him or send him back. Lucky enough for us he was persisted with. Unlucky for J.B. he has no such chance in your eyes.
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tredrea was a beautiful kick as a jnr, and in his younger afl days, then he got the wobbles for a few years in his mid to late 20's. Pretty much in our peak. But he always had a nice action and always hit the ball cleanly. You seriously cant compare tredreas kick to butchers? What about tredreas snaps from outside 50? I have been hoping the butcher in defense would pay off, cos i love his endevour. But you just cant have him as a goalkicking forward.
 

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raman said:
I called it in the podcast a couple of weeks ago that I thought he'd still be on the senior list next year, I was happy with that bet then, and I'm happier with it now.
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Should Schulz leave and Dixon come in, our KPFs would be

Dixon - A guy who has peaked at 14 games for a single season (62 games total)
Butcher - A guy who has peaked at 8 games for a single season (24 games total)
Howard, Harvey, Shaw, possible new rookies (0 games total experience)

Delisting Butcher would be pure insanity.
 
He played like how a resting ruck plays up forward - think back to Primus, Brogan etc. Crashed a few packs, chased a bit, but provided no leading, no repeat leading, unable to get any space on his opponent and was constantly caught out of position (hence the best he could actually do was just crash a few packs). You hope they clunk a mark and kick a goal and thats it. Had a good last quarter, and I was as excited as anyone when he went near the ball, but these are issues that he's had since day 1 and hasn't improved since day 1.
 
John will be better with continuity. He knows he has issues but the longer he's persisted with the more relaxed he will get.
 
Dylan8 said:
Should Schulz leave and Dixon come in, our KPFs would be

Dixon - A guy who has peaked at 14 games for a single season (62 games total)
Butcher - A guy who has peaked at 8 games for a single season (24 games total)
Howard, Harvey, Shaw, possible new rookies (0 games total experience)

Delisting Butcher would be pure insanity.
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Oh and Westhoff but he's barely a key forward. A very tall, agile utility player.
 

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Piston_Broke said:
Tredders was a terrible set shot. To the point where it was widely called to drop him or send him back. Lucky enough for us he was persisted with. Unlucky for J.B. he has no such chance in your eyes.
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I'm not too sure about that P-B, I can recall Tredders kicking a couple of huge goals from outside the 50 against the squawkers at Waverly in late 1997, after he had missed most of his first season with a broken arm.

He kicked something like 8 - 3 in his break out game against the blue baggers in 1998, but did get the yips after he dislocated his knee ( twice? ). lost distance in his kick, and then began to get his weight distribution wrong by leaning too far backwards, but that was def after those knee dislocations.
 
FishingRick04 said:
John will be better with continuity. He knows he has issues but the longer he's persisted with the more relaxed he will get.
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Nah, he's had ample time on our list and unfortunately hasn't moved forward in fixing his kicking, time to cut our losses and move on.
 
Piston_Broke said:
What was a pass Mark for Tredders at the same age? I've got a good memory and I remember Wazza being shocking in front of goal, even getting close to his mid twenties. His kicking action was pretty ordinary too. Calls to send Warren back in defense to keep him in the team. And that was the days before BigFooty was in full swing, so the scrutiny was far and wide on Warren.

I'm by no means saying that Johnny is or can be another Tredders, but he's the closest in comparison I can think of in a search for our next CHF. The boy can kick for goal he's proven it. He needs confidence. Tredders debut in 1998. We didn't win a flag until six years later. Ok Butch has to hurry along but he's hardly been given an opportunity.

Johnny Butch. Play him, play him and play him some more.
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Tredrea was multiple AA by the same age. But otherwise I agree...
 
Hong-Kong Phooey said:
tredrea was a beautiful kick as a jnr, and in his younger afl days, then he got the wobbles for a few years in his mid to late 20's. Pretty much in our peak. But he always had a nice action and always hit the ball cleanly. You seriously cant compare tredreas kick to butchers? What about tredreas snaps from outside 50? I have been hoping the butcher in defense would pay off, cos i love his endevour. But you just cant have him as a goalkicking forward.
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You're not getting my point. As I said in an earlier post I'm by no means saying Butch can or will be a another Tredders. But he's the only thing we have right now close to a true CHF. And in comparison to Warren should give him a he'll of a chance.

Butch's kicking action is as awkward as all hell, I'm the first to admit that. I sat behind the southern goals at footy park and I can tell you Wazzas kicking action was far from perfect too. Until he learnt to make the best of what he had. Including using his body to muscle goals instead of relying on set shots.

Kicking actions aside. Butcher has proven he can kick bags of goals, one way or another. Why not give him a chance to bring the best out in himself, or what's the next option? Oh.........he's not a sharp shooter like Shulz so he's useless to this team.
 
Piston_Broke said:
You're not getting my point. As I said in an earlier post I'm by no means saying Butch can or will be a another Tredders. But he's the only thing we have right now close to a true CHF. And in comparison to Warren should give him a he'll of a chance.

Butch's kicking action is as awkward as all hell, I'm the first to admit that. I sat behind the southern goals at footy park and I can tell you Wazzas kicking action was far from perfect too. Until he learnt to make the best of what he had. Including using his body to muscle goals instead of relying on set shots.

Kicking actions aside. Butcher has proven he can kick bags of goals, one way or another. Why not give him a chance to bring the best out in himself, or what's the next option? Oh.........he's not a sharp shooter like Shulz so he's useless to this team.
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mate, he is 24 years old. dont you think if he was going to bring out the best it would have happened by now? You people make me out to be saying he is a terrible footballer. He isnt, he has many good qualities. But just not at AFL level for my liking. Love to be proven wrong, but my bets are still on being delisted.
 
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