The HAL Hunter thread: Updated 10/2 - Must pay some costs. Now likely to sue, lodgement likely May.

[VL3OJ]

Hi mxett,
I respected you over the years. You supported your club on HTB where others left but the last two days have been disappointing and you are now emulating Robbo on a bad day.

To reiterate, Paul Little joined the board in 2009 and was there for the entire fiasco and failed in his duty (in my opinion). As others have said Hal is unaware of what other drugs, and the quantities were injected in to him.

I don't know how I would react if my club had done this. I would have be devastated and probably walked away but would have been angry, probably just like you.

This action, if true, is unconscionable on so many levels and I hope you can see why others are shocked and respect that. Keep fighting the good fight but do it with reverence to others please.

 

[VL3OJ]

Working on it. Just have to get the wording right.

Good idea - perhaps crowd funding for Hal as well? That would stick it right up em

 

[D-N-R]

Pretty low.

While we as a family and those close to him have tried to support Hal in this process, it has taken a huge toll on him. We have real concerns for his ongoing physical and mental well-being as a result of not only what happened at the club but the approach the club and AFL have taken to Hal's case since ...

"Hal should be given as much detail as possible in order for him to address the implications of the injection program at the club and, to allow him to get on with his life."

On another tack. Have we found 'Sarah' the mystery Essendon player's mother?

 

[T2B_]

How dare he want to know what potentially harmful things he was injected with. Get stuffed Essendon, get stuffed AFL.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

The reason they can't tell him is that there were more powerful drugs than TB4 injected into the players. The AFL and Essendon are aware of this and do not want to have this made public. It would destroy the EFC.

 

[Chameleon75]

The reason they can't tell him is that there were more powerful drugs than TB4 injected into the players. The AFL and Essendon are aware of this and do not want to have this made public. It would destroy the EFC.

financial strong arming to get him to drop it

 

[Ophiomorpha]

The reason they can't tell him is that there were more powerful drugs than TB4 injected into the players. The AFL and Essendon are aware of this and do not want to have this made public. It would destroy the EFC.

This is something that is being VERY carefully managed.

Not one journalist has asked questions about this possibility (probability really, given the sort of things that scallywag Dank was handing out to others).

Why?

 

[coryne]

if Hal was part of the program, yet to this day doesnt know what he was injected with, why did CAS accuse the players of knowing what they were using?

Hal wasn't charged with TB4 injections. It's obvious that TB4 was one of MANY things injected into the players. God knows what was in the muscular dystrophy treatment injected into the players at the hydrotherapy clinic.

Why are you not outrage that your club won't hand over the paperwork that they have and are trying to make a player to pay for the clubs legal fees .......

 

[mxett]

Hal wasn't charged with TB4 injections. It's obvious that TB4 was one of MANY things injected into the players. God knows what was in the muscular dystrophy treatment injected into the players at the hydrotherapy clinic.

Why are you not outrage that your club won't hand over the paperwork that they have and are trying to make a player to pay for the clubs legal fees .......

according to the story the court was satisfied that the club had handed all records over to Hal

 

[BF Tiger]

so you believe Hal knew about TB4 but none of the other injections? Isnt that a little convenient?

No. Hunter didn't know anything. He wants to know everything. He has learnt of TB-4 through the media. He did not sign s consent form.

Contrast with Watson who may not have known what was being used, but may have suspected it was off-limits. He did sign a consent form.

 

[mxett]

No. Hunter didn't know anything. He wants to know everything. He has learnt of TB-4 through the media. He did not sign s consent form.

Contrast with Watson who may not have known what was being used, but may have suspected it was off-limits. He did sign a consent form.

but if Hal was a willing part of the program, and CAS have determined he was therefore a willing cheat, why didnt he know what he was receiving? That doesnt add up

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

according to the story the court was satisfied that the club had handed all records over to Hal

Isn't Hunter's case about him backing Essendon and the AFL into a corner where they simply can't deny that he was subjected to unsafe working conditions?

I assumed her ask for records - and due to the existing shit storm about 'no records', they literally have to say in court "sorry, we can't actually say what you or anyone else was given". To which, Hunter would immediately start doing the 'rubbing his thumb and forefinger and index finger together action'.

That's how I saw it. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[jenny61_99]

Isn't Hunter's case about him backing Essendon and the AFL into a corner where they simply can't deny that he was subjected to unsafe working conditions?

I assumed her ask for records - and due to the existing shit storm about 'no records', they literally have to say in court "sorry, we can't actually say what you or anyone else was given". To which, Hunter would immediately start doing the 'rubbing his thumb and forefinger and index finger together action'.

That's how I saw it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Or.. Maybe he wants to know what the **** he was given?


A little late....

 

[Whit3y]

hal only wants to know, what why where and when?

is james hird the mouse?

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

The reason they can't tell him is that there were more powerful drugs than TB4 injected into the players. The AFL and Essendon are aware of this and do not want to have this made public. It would destroy the EFC.

Your on the right track. Everything dank was doing was seeking to replicate hgh bit by bit. He had most of it from aod but he needed to replace what had been taken out.

He did not use anything more powerful he just had a plan to replicate the most powerful ped in the market place and based on the early results it was working as Essendon were out performing all exoectUons in the first 10 rounds, so much so that at least one club smelt a rat.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

Isn't Hunter's case about him backing Essendon and the AFL into a corner where they simply can't deny that he was subjected to unsafe working conditions?

I assumed her ask for records - and due to the existing shit storm about 'no records', they literally have to say in court "sorry, we can't actually say what you or anyone else was given". To which, Hunter would immediately start doing the 'rubbing his thumb and forefinger and index finger together action'.

That's how I saw it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Some of the gear he was meant to be injected with can apparently have some nasty side effects. I guess he might want to know what he has to watch for.

 

[FFC_RoyBoys]

Scumbaggery of the lowest order, but not entirely unexpected. AFL stopped being a "sport" sometime before Ross Oakley's tenure as CEO and has ever since been an entertainment business.

Business rules apply - you got the deeper pockets - lawyer them out of existence.

Clearly it has been established that Hal doesn't have enough information to hurt them, thus not worthy of a Robinson like payout. All of the motherhood statements about concerns for players - looking after them in the long term, yada, yada, are sadly just window dressing for the media to print.

If Hal wants to start a crowd funding option - I for one would be happy to contribute.

 

[Keys]

if Hal was part of the program, yet to this day doesnt know what he was injected with, why did CAS accuse the players of knowing what they were using?

If I read that article correctly hunter didn't sign a consent like the other 34 did which is why he didn't get an infraction notice

Do you also wonder why he's the only player trying to find out what exactly what he was given?

 

[mxett]

Do you also wonder why he's the only player trying to find out what exactly what he was given?

I would think they all want to know what they were given. Theyve no doubt been told what information there is available, but Hal must believe there are more records. Either that or he's setting the stage for more legal action

 

[Keys]

I would think they all want to know what they were given. Theyve no doubt been told what information there is available, but Hal must believe there are more records. Either that or he's setting the stage for more legal action

If, like Hal, they don't know, how come they seem to remain so certain that they're innocent.

Being duped doesn't make them innocent under the WADA code btw

 

[mxett]

If, like Hal, they don't know, how come they seem to remain so certain that they're innocent.

Being duped doesn't make them innocent under the WADA code btw

i realise that of course, however it can mean you are entitled to no significant fault discount.

I think the players believe they were only given wada compliant substances because thats what they signed a consent for

 

[Keys]

i realise that of course, however it can mean you are entitled to no significant fault discount.

I think the players believe they were only given wada compliant substances because thats what they signed a consent for

Why didn't they list their injections etc on the disclosure forms when getting tested

Why didn't they check the status of the drugs they were being given as they were taught to do in the AFL drug education programs

Why didn't they tell Dr Reid what they were being given

I still have some sympathy for the players but unfortunately to an extent they were complicit in what happened and that's why they didn't get a no significant fault discount

 

[mxett]

Why didn't they list their injections etc on the disclosure forms when getting tested

Why didn't they check the status of the drugs they were being given as they were taught to do in the AFL drug education programs

Why didn't they tell Dr Reid what they were being given

I still have some sympathy for the players but unfortunately to an extent they were complicit in what happened and that's why they didn't get a no significant fault discount

Which is interesting given ASADA did request a no significant fault findiing.

I don think the players did themselves any fovours but i dont think it reflects their desire to cheat

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

i realise that of course, however it can mean you are entitled to no significant fault discount.

I think the players believe they were only given wada compliant substances because thats what they signed a consent for

It's blatantly clear though, that they didn't actually know what they were agreeing to.
I mean, WTF is 'thymosin'?
If they knew what it was, then they were cheating straight out.
If they didn't know what it was, they can't claimto have been duped cause they never bothered to check anything.

If athletes the world over start asking their club what a drug is, they could start replying 'it's jungle juice - but don't stress it's WADA compliant' and give them steroids.
That can't possibly be allowed to become an out clause for athletes.

The only way they deserve a 'duped' result, is if they were specifically told at the time it was thymomodulin. And they checked with WADA.


If there's evidence to prove that that's what happened, then they should definitely get a no fault discount. They should probably get off altogether.

 

[Keys]

Which is interesting given ASADA did request a no significant fault findiing.

I don think the players did themselves any fovours but i dont think it reflects their desire to cheat

I don't think the players deliberately tried to cheat either but then again neither did Saad. CAS was satisfied they used a banned substance and they've been banned for it

Instead of crying about an unfair decision they should be focusing on how their employer deceived them and has been continually ****ing them in the arse ever since