2016 Forwards

[freddy mercury]

Starred in intra club

Absolute lock then.

 

[Flandersss]

Big deal, so did I and I'm not a good Supercoach option

Who?

Krusty the clown?

 

[toxic]

Big deal, so did I and I'm not a good Supercoach option

Yes that's the only reason 25000 peeps have him in their SC sides

Can you call them all and tell them they have no idea

 

[toxic]

Absolute lock then.

Why not genius

 

[Flandersss]

Why not genius

Leave Fraser Gehrig alone

 

[stevebbb]

Seeing a few sides with Wingard, am i missing something? Hasn't played a nab, niggles during pre season.. just don't see it..

Firstly, he's a freak. Secondly, he played all of last year with a 'niggling knee injury' and still averaged 98. Lastly, Port's early run is great, he'll get a few 4+ goal hauls before the bye.

Locked.

Who are your starting forwards?

 

[Jars458]

Yes that's the only reason 25000 peeps have him in their SC sides

Can you call them all and tell them they have no idea

How many had Relton Roberts?

 

[Hairy Lager]

If going for a pensioner I'd be super keen on a slimmed down NROO

Is simply elite in taking marks and destroying opponent's on the lead.

I'm ballsy but even i feel super nervous about going to a grab a granny nite

Heard these help...

just don't offer alcohol or they never stop talking.
Great gardening advice.

 

[Hairy Lager]

Roaming free on a wing

No-one in this league could stop him

Other than General Soreness and his team of badass recruits.

 

[Souup]

Seeing a few sides with Wingard, am i missing something? Hasn't played a nab, niggles during pre season.. just don't see it..

I don't either. I said this a few weeks ago, and still stand by it now - I really don't understand why every second team seemingly has him at F2.

 

[toxic]

I don't either. I said this a few weeks ago, and still stand by it now - I really don't understand why every second team seemingly has him at F2.

Questions for discussion

What did he average last year?
Will Port improve this year?

 

[Lums23]

Questions for discussion

What did he average last year?
Will Port improve this year?

He only averaged 80 in 2014 when port were good though...

 

[toxic]

He only averaged 80 in 2014 when port were good though...

He was 12 then

 

[Souup]

Questions for discussion

What did he average last year?
Will Port improve this year?

This kind of questioning is pretty superficial from a SC stand-point in my opinion, I don't find the answers to your questions to be a sufficient reason to pick him. For starters, he averaged 80 in Port's best year since he's been there, so Port improving may not have as large an influence as you may believe on his scoring. For anyone who wants to respond to this by saying he was young when he averaged 80, it's an average excuse because he was younger the year before and averaged 98.

His 2 best seasons were as follows -

2013 (98.3 Supercoach)
21.4 Disposals
4.3 Marks
1.8 Goals
2.0 Tackles

2015 (97.6 Supercoach)
19.2 Disposals
3.9 Marks
2.4 Goals
3.0 Tackles

In 2015 -
He had 21+ disposals 9 times last season. In games he did this, he averaged 2.1 goals a game.
He kicked more 3 or more goals 10 times last season. In games he did this, he averaged exactly 19.0 disposals in those games.

When I personally look at the above statistics, I can't see him improving one area without dropping another. For example, I can't see him improving his disposals without going backwards in his goal tally. With Polec back into their side, the continual improvement of Sam Gray and absence of Monfries up forward, I only see Wingard losing his midfield time and being required more up forward. I'll also add that I believe he'll only continue to draw closer attention, but he has since his 2nd season so I'm not sure that's a great reason not to pick him.

Basically, I'm not willing to spend 530K on someone will predominantly play small forward, especially when I personally believe he will at best hold his average.

There are guys in the AFL who have gone from small forward to midfield and have been great SC picks, guys like Robbie Gray and Brent Harvey spring to mind. But both those guys are more naturally midfielders. Wingard for me seems more naturally a small forward, and I see Port predominantly playing him there.

Wingard could very well make the improvement statistically that would lead him to becoming an SC must-have for years to come, but I personally don't see that happening, especially when seeing the correlation between his higher disposal games meaning he averages less goals, and vice versa.

 

[toxic]

This kind of questioning is pretty superficial from a SC stand-point in my opinion, I don't find the answers to your questions to be a sufficient reason to pick him. For starters, he averaged 80 in Port's best year since he's been there, so Port improving may not have as large an influence as you may believe on his scoring. For anyone who wants to respond to this by saying he was young when he averaged 80, it's an average excuse because he was younger the year before and averaged 98.

His 2 best seasons were as follows -

2013 (98.3 Supercoach)
21.4 Disposals
4.3 Marks
1.8 Goals
2.0 Tackles

2015 (97.6 Supercoach)
19.2 Disposals
3.9 Marks
2.4 Goals
3.0 Tackles

He had 21+ disposals 9 times last season. When he did this, he only kicked 3 or more goals 3 times.
He kicked more 3 or more goals 10 times last season. In games he did this, he averaged exactly 19.0 disposals in those games.

When I personally look at the above statistics, I can't see him improving one area without dropping another. For example, I can't see him improving his disposals without going backwards in his goal tally. With Polec back into their side, the continual improvement of Sam Gray and absence of Monfries up forward, I only see Wingard losing his midfield time and being required more up forward. I'll also add that I believe he'll only continue to draw closer attention, but he has since his 2nd season so I'm not sure that's a great reason not to pick him.

Basically, I'm not willing to spend 530K on someone will predominantly play small forward, especially when I personally believe he will at best hold his average.

There are guys in the AFL who have gone from small forward to midfield and have been great SC picks, guys like Robbie Gray and Brent Harvey spring to mind. But both those guys are more naturally midfielders. Wingard for me seems more naturally a small forward, and I see Port predominantly playing him there.

Wingard could very well make the improvement statistically that would lead him to becoming an SC must-have for years to come, but I personally don't see that happening.

Is dollhouse a fwd option?
64
84
79
92
104

Is Barlow an option?
95
110
112
93

Is Zorko an option?
100
83
99
100

All these guys have had 10+% variations from year to year

I can see why people doubt the chad but to ME he has Cyril like scoring potential

 

[stevebbb]

This kind of questioning is pretty superficial from a SC stand-point in my opinion, I don't find the answers to your questions to be a sufficient reason to pick him. For starters, he averaged 80 in Port's best year since he's been there, so Port improving may not have as large an influence as you may believe on his scoring. For anyone who wants to respond to this by saying he was young when he averaged 80, it's an average excuse because he was younger the year before and averaged 98.

His 2 best seasons were as follows -

2013 (98.3 Supercoach)
21.4 Disposals
4.3 Marks
1.8 Goals
2.0 Tackles

2015 (97.6 Supercoach)
19.2 Disposals
3.9 Marks
2.4 Goals
3.0 Tackles

He had 21+ disposals 9 times last season. In games he did this, he averaged 2.1 goals a game.
He kicked more 3 or more goals 10 times last season. In games he did this, he averaged exactly 19.0 disposals in those games.

When I personally look at the above statistics, I can't see him improving one area without dropping another. For example, I can't see him improving his disposals without going backwards in his goal tally. With Polec back into their side, the continual improvement of Sam Gray and absence of Monfries up forward, I only see Wingard losing his midfield time and being required more up forward. I'll also add that I believe he'll only continue to draw closer attention, but he has since his 2nd season so I'm not sure that's a great reason not to pick him.

Basically, I'm not willing to spend 530K on someone will predominantly play small forward, especially when I personally believe he will at best hold his average.

There are guys in the AFL who have gone from small forward to midfield and have been great SC picks, guys like Robbie Gray and Brent Harvey spring to mind. But both those guys are more naturally midfielders. Wingard for me seems more naturally a small forward, and I see Port predominantly playing him there.

Wingard could very well make the improvement statistically that would lead him to becoming an SC must-have for years to come, but I personally don't see that happening.

He scored 53 goals last year, in a season where he saw more midfield time. Say he gets less mid time this year and spends more time up forward, wouldn't that equate to more goals??
Your argument is flawed, Gunston and Roughy were top 10 forwards last year playing mainly forward. Franklin plays forward and is still considered to be a forward premium. Rioli was averaged high 90s several time playing only as a forward. Midfield time isn't the be all end all. toxic raises another good point above.

Wingard is a freak, absolute superstar player that is already dominating at only 22 years of age. He wins his own ball, tackles, kicks goals, and steps up when it's needed (CD likes this!)


Curious, who are you picking up forward? I'm sure I could find a bunch of valid statistics and points to argue against you choosing that player.

 

[Souup]

Is dollhouse a fwd option?
64
84
79
92
104

Is Barlow an option?
95
110
112
93

Is Zorko an option?
100
83
99
100

All these guys have had 10+% variations from year to year

I can see why people doubt the chad but to ME he has Cyril like scoring potential

They're all incredibly different from Wingard. There's a pretty obvious correlation between Zorko playing minutes in the midfield and his scoring. He's definitely a better midfielder than forward. However there are way too many guys in that midfield rotation for Zorko to be without big risks for the upcoming season. Barlow has always been a midfielder, he's a ball magnet, Ross made mistakes playing him forward. Neither of them are anything even close in similarity to Wingard in any way. Dahlhaus averaged over 25 disposals and less than a goal a game, proving he made the transition from small forward to midfield pretty well.

For the record, I haven't seriously considered Dahlhaus or Zorko as options for my starting team. Zorko because he averaged 122 in the last 5 games that Beams didn't play in. With Brisbane adding Bell to their side, I see less midfield time for Zorko. With Dahlhaus, I'm not willing to take a risk on a guy who's only averaged over 100 once in his career.

Anyway, Port seem to prefer having Wingard closer to goal. He's nothing like the 3 you mentioned who have all shown they can be on-ball beasts and their sides don't weak their forward line significantly by playing them through the midfield. Wingard is a much more natural forward than all 3, by a mile too, so Port hurt themselves by taking him away from goal.

I see the Cyril-Wingard connection, but to me that deters me from him if anything. Cyril has never averaged over 100.

 

[Souup]

He scored 53 goals last year, in a season where he saw more midfield time. Say he gets less mid time this year and spends more time up forward, wouldn't that equate to more goals??
Your argument is flawed, Gunston and Roughy were top 10 forwards last year playing mainly forward. Franklin plays forward and is still considered to be a forward premium. Rioli was averaged high 90s several time playing only as a forward. Midfield time isn't the be all end all. toxic raises another good point above.

Wingard is a freak, absolute superstar player that is already dominating at only 22 years of age. He wins his own ball, tackles, kicks goals, and steps up when it's needed (CD likes this!)


Curious, who are you picking up forward? I'm sure I could find a bunch of valid statistics and points to argue against you choosing that player.

My argument isn't flawed. My argument is that SMALL forwards average less, this is fact. Wingard being the subject, is a small forward, so to bring taller forwards into the discussion is irrelevant. I never said anything about key forwards which is what you went on to list. Gunston and Roughead are both key forwards (Roughead in recent years has had the occasional run in the midfield throughout games too). Franklin is one of the best forwards of all time. Franklin, in every season he averaged over 100 SC points, was averaging 3.5+ goals a game. I can't see Wingard doing this as a small forward. If you can, then Wingard is a good selection.

Less midfield time/more time forward = less disposals and more goals. For this to make him a good SC-selection, he would basically need to average a Franklin-esque 3.5+ goals a game.

 

[stevebbb]

My argument isn't flawed. My argument is that SMALL forwards average less, this is fact. Wingard being the subject, is a small forward, so to bring taller forwards into the discussion is irrelevant. I never said anything about key forwards which is what you went on to list. Gunston and Roughead are both key forwards (Roughead in recent years has had the occasional run in the midfield throughout games too). Franklin is one of the best forwards of all time. Franklin, in every season he averaged over 100 SC points, was averaging 3.5+ goals a game. I can't see Wingard doing this as a small forward. If you can, then Wingard is a good selection.

Less midfield time/more time forward = less disposals and more goals. For this to make him a good SC-selection, he would basically need to average a Franklin-esque 3.5+ goals a game.

Interchange cap means more mid and forward rotations, there is no doubt Wingard will see midfield time.
Rioli is a small forward and he has definitely put up averages to be labelled a forward premium

Who are you picking??

 

[Souup]

Interchange cap means more mid and forward rotations, there is no doubt Wingard will see midfield time.
Rioli is a small forward and he has definitely put up averages to be labelled a forward premium

Who are you picking??

I don't doubt Wingard will see midfield time, I just dont think he'll see very much of it, atleast not in comparison to the last season or 2. Port have a seriously good midfield with Boak, Wines, Ebert, Robbie Gray, Polec, Hartlett all running through there (S.Gray gets a run in there with Ah Chee pushing into the midfield and some have even said Toumpas may get a run). With those guys rotating through the midfield, and Wingard being about the most dangerous small forward in the AFL, why would they want to take him from the forward 50?

Martin, Westhoff, Barlow, Vandenberg are my 4 forwards I've selected as keepers. Vandenberg could easily end up being Hall/Devon Smith (I've even flirted with the idea of Tom Lynch from the Gold Coast) but I think i'll end up backing my gut with VDB. If there ends up being a plethora of forward rookies that look good, F4 will end up a rookie, but I doubt it.

 

[Kadog]

Interchange cap means more mid and forward rotations, there is no doubt Wingard will see midfield time.

I think Wingard/R.Gray will directly split minutes between mid/fwd. The hot hand might spend more time in respective position. I can see Wingard improving up to 5pts on his average.

 

[stevebbb]

I don't doubt Wingard will see midfield time, I just dont think he'll see very much of it, atleast not in comparison to the last season or 2. Port have a seriously good midfield with Boak, Wines, Ebert, Robbie Gray, Polec, Hartlett all running through there (S.Gray gets a run in there with Ah Chee pushing into the midfield and some have even said Toumpas may get a run). With those guys rotating through the midfield, and Wingard being about the most dangerous small forward in the AFL, why would they want to take him from the forward 50?

Martin, Westhoff, Barlow, Vandenberg are my 4 forwards I've selected as keepers. Vandenberg could easily end up being Hall/Devon Smith (I've even flirted with the idea of Tom Lynch from the Gold Coast) but I think i'll end up backing my gut with VDB. If there ends up being a plethora of forward rookies that look good, F4 will end up a rookie, but I doubt it.

Wingard will score more than Westhoff this season.

VDB is interesting, will definitely improve his average, but I can't see it being 85+.

I'm done arguing haha, the beauty of SC is we all have different picks. I just got mad with your lengthy post on why we shouldn't pick The Chad.

 

[Souup]

Wingard will score more than Westhoff this season.

VDB is interesting, will definitely improve his average, but I can't see it being 85+.

I'm done arguing haha, the beauty of SC is we all have different picks. I just got mad with your lengthy post on why we shouldn't pick The Chad.

I don't think you can say Wingard will average more than Westhoff in an absolute sense.

I'm happy enough with my research on VDB and am more than happy to take a punt. At worst he'll probably sustain his price and I can go side-ways to a fallen premium. Potential risk vs reward is very much worth it for me.

As you've said the beauty of SC is the difference of opinion and evaluation. Any player could potentially break out or go backwards, they're a role change or niggling injury away from it. Wingard could definitely average 100+ and i'll end up regretting it, but our assessments of that possibility are quite different, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[croweyrocks]

Seeing a few sides with Wingard, am i missing something? Hasn't played a nab, niggles during pre season.. just don't see it..

He would have played last week if it were for 4 points. Has had a much bigger pre-season than previous years. No nab match- no worries imo.

 

[croweyrocks]

I think Wingard/R.Gray will directly split minutes between mid/fwd. The hot hand might spend more time in respective position. I can see Wingard improving up to 5pts on his average.

Nailed it