Review Round 22, 2016 - Brisbane Lions vs Geelong

[rusty08]

Positive for me was Hanley getting passionate with cutler on the ground who was playing lazy footy. Got a response and later in the game Hanley & Cutler had a nice moment together after a string of great moments from Cutler

Do we actually know what it was for. Myself, reading between the lines, thought cutler may have given Hanley a spray for not passing to him. It was straight after Hanley had ball at half forward close to boundary and centered one of his usual 15m dinky pass.( to who I can't recall.) I got the feeling cuts may have felt he were in a better position but overlooked. A goal was scored and it seemed like Hanley just told him to pull his head in. Not a good look the way he did it was my only beef with it. If that was the reason?? And after the 2 combined later for a goal, it looked like cuts half apologized or at least acknowledged something. Am I way off?? Only watching on TV.

 

[Ironmonger]

Other than Cutler I really struggle to see that any of our cubs have come on this year and are taking responsibility in their position. Robbo and Rich did enough but the gap between them and the rest of our mids is too big. Rocky, Hanley and Zorro tried but they weren't having much influence.

Yeah, it has been a disappointing year for guys like Taylor, Robertson, Freeman and McStay. We're not getting the return from the 2013 draft that we really needed.

Andrews deserves a mention though. He started from a pretty high base for a KPD but he's growing incrementally. He's looking a bit more comfortable one on one, which seemed to be a problem in the early days.

What separates Cutler from most of the others in that age group is that his best performances are really quite good indeed. So it seems in his case it's just a matter of getting him to perform at that level regularly, which hopefully just comes from consistently playing seniors. Like yourself, I'm a bit worried that most of the other 20-25yo players are tracking to be no more than reasonable contributors.

 

[Nunez]

Yeah, it has been a disappointing year for guys like Taylor, Robertson, Freeman and McStay. We're not getting the return from the 2013 draft that we really needed.

Andrews deserves a mention though. He started from a pretty high base for a KPD but he's growing incrementally. He's looking a bit more comfortable one on one, which seemed to be a problem in the early days.

What separates Cutler from most of the others in that age group is that his best performances are really quite good indeed. So it seems in his case it's just a matter of getting him to perform at that level regularly, which hopefully just comes from consistently playing seniors. Like yourself, I'm a bit worried that most of the other 20-25yo players are tracking to be no more than reasonable contributors.

I think its unfair to put Freeman and Mcstay in that category as they are KPPs who you'd expect more from betweeen 3-5 years opposed to 1-3. Taylor and Robertson are definitely fair calls though.

 

[M Malice]

doesn't look like anybody thinks Jackson Paine is the answer to our 2017 big bodied KPD problem. big donut in the votes.

 

[royboys4eva]

The biggest concern with Lewy Taylor right now is that he can't take the ball clean. He fumbles almost every time. He is trying to do everything to quickly and not watching the ball. Also with such a light frame he needs to be out in the open more - he can't afford to be caught in contested situations. In his first year he was really good at finding space and creating space. I don't know why but he has lost that ability.

 

[Danny3]

The biggest concern with Lewy Taylor right now is that he can't take the ball clean. He fumbles almost every time. He is trying to do everything to quickly and not watching the ball. Also with such a light frame he needs to be out in the open more - he can't afford to be caught in contested situations. In his first year he was really good at finding space and creating space. I don't know why but he has lost that ability.

Bigger problem I think is his defensive work. Lost count of the times Geelong players broke free of his tackles. Three years in he should really be sticking more of those. Also needs to do the hard work in transition earlier. Watched Enright, who's old enough to be his dad, lead him down the field a number of times yesterday. You can bust your gut to get goal side of your opponent and block his run as soon as there's a turnover, or you can chase his tail all day. Know which I'd rather do.

 

[Ironmonger]

I think its unfair to put Freeman and Mcstay in that category as they are KPPs who you'd expect more from betweeen 3-5 years opposed to 1-3. Taylor and Robertson are definitely fair calls though.

I take your point.

I think with those guys we'd still want to see a little bit more progress over the three years they've been on the list, even if we don't expect them to be finished products right now. As you say, still plenty of time for them though.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

The biggest concern with Lewy Taylor right now is that he can't take the ball clean. He fumbles almost every time. He is trying to do everything to quickly and not watching the ball. Also with such a light frame he needs to be out in the open more - he can't afford to be caught in contested situations. In his first year he was really good at finding space and creating space. I don't know why but he has lost that ability.

I was asking myself why as well.
First year he seemed to be working with Rocky and co getting to space to receive a short pass and give and then get to the next space up further.
People were comparing him to Boomer Harvey.
Is it changes in roles out there or something, maybe Rocky's injuries and form has had a bit to do with lewy's poor year.
There is some dynamic that was there that first year that had the team working better for each other, that has fallen off for a time now. Yesterday was very promising in this regard.
Yesterday was pretty close to his best game I thought all year, back to that type of connecting role player.

On the game itself the second quarter best quarter all season , we haven't been that exited for a while, pitty its the 2nd last game.

 

[Kevvo]

Yeah, it has been a disappointing year for guys like Taylor, Robertson, Freeman and McStay. We're not getting the return from the 2013 draft that we really needed.

Andrews deserves a mention though. He started from a pretty high base for a KPD but he's growing incrementally. He's looking a bit more comfortable one on one, which seemed to be a problem in the early days.

What separates Cutler from most of the others in that age group is that his best performances are really quite good indeed. So it seems in his case it's just a matter of getting him to perform at that level regularly, which hopefully just comes from consistently playing seniors. Like yourself, I'm a bit worried that most of the other 20-25yo players are tracking to be no more than reasonable contributors.

I think Gardiner has also shown signs of being able to hold down a position, and I think there's enough upside that he could go well beyond just being a contributor. I'd have had him in our top 10 for quite a few games this year, and he rarely gets beaten badly. Taking account of the number and speed of inside 50s against us, I'd say he's going fairly well.

 

[Ironmonger]

I think Gardiner has also shown signs of being able to hold down a position, and I think there's enough upside that he could go well beyond just being a contributor. I'd have had him in our top 10 for quite a few games this year, and he rarely gets beaten badly. Taking account of the number and speed of inside 50s against us, I'd say he's going fairly well.

I actually agree with just about all of that, but I'd have said the same things at the end of his first season. Being a mid-sized defender is a tough gig and unfortunately it doesn't appear as though he's developing particular strengths apart from being a moderately good stopper. He's not rebounding from the backline any more effectively, he doesn't appear to be helping out his teammates a lot (hard to do given the number and speed of inside 50s, as you say), and he's not getting any taller or any faster.

I'd love to be wrong on this one, because there are a lot of things I like about him.

 

[Nunez]

I rate Dizzy highly as a medium defender - his disposals both by hand and foot have improved this year quite substancially imo, and his defense 1v1 is very solid. He is also giving away less free than he used to. IMO is underrated due to our smashings, but watch him closely over the coming years and he'll prove to be a big asset.

 

[POBT]

My criticism of Gardiner is the lack of offensive output in a role where you really should be providing some attacking thrust. 12 possessions and 2.5 marks a game is a pretty poor output in that respect.

Having said that, if you compare him to someone like Nick Smith from Sydney, who also plays on the best small forwards, he doesn't come out too badly. Smith averages 13 touches and 3 marks a game. It probably then comes down to their ability to shut down a dangerous opponent and, while Smith is superior IMO, he is playing with a much better side.

My hope for Gardiner this summer is that he starts to take more marks. If he continues to play on smalls, I think he needs to develop the ability to take a strong grab in defence. Right now, he has very hard hands in the marking contest which makes him a spoil only defender.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Do we actually know what it was for. Myself, reading between the lines, thought cutler may have given Hanley a spray for not passing to him. It was straight after Hanley had ball at half forward close to boundary and centered one of his usual 15m dinky pass.( to who I can't recall.) I got the feeling cuts may have felt he were in a better position but overlooked. A goal was scored and it seemed like Hanley just told him to pull his head in. Not a good look the way he did it was my only beef with it. If that was the reason?? And after the 2 combined later for a goal, it looked like cuts half apologized or at least acknowledged something. Am I way off?? Only watching on TV.

I replayed it a bit after all the fuss.. The moment Hanley was looking to pass Cutler wasnt even in the panned out shot. Hanley ran back towards the defensive to spray him. My "guess" would be a workrate issue. Either way what a response from cutler after that moment. People also need to remember some players respond to that sort of feedback and actually want it. When I played I loved a good spray from my coach or captain as it got the best out of me. I find it strange that people these days take offense to it when most likely the players themself wouldnt care and most likely crave it at times. I hope it really helps spark Cutler and one day when he is a leader he can demand the same form kids below him

 

[Milk Steak]

I'm very doubtful on Gardiner compared to what I saw in his first year. His disposal is terrible in my opinion,misses to many targets by hand and foot and I think some posters sugarcoat it too much. He also manages to somehow be too tall and gangly to play on smaller quick types, but too short and lacking strength to play on taller players which means he's always mismatched

 

[jackess]

I'm very doubtful on Gardiner compared to what I saw in his first year. His disposal is terrible in my opinion,misses to many targets by hand and foot and I think some posters sugarcoat it too much. He also manages to somehow be too tall and gangly to play on smaller quick types, but too short and lacking strength to play on taller players which means he's always mismatched

I'd have to disagree on all accounts.

His disposal is good enough. He'll never be a Cutler or a Mayes but he's closer to them then he is to Merrett. I've very rarely seen him play on someone taller than him in the last two seasons but he's been very good defensively. Certainly a lot better then the other options we have. Above all you have to remember how many inside 50s we give up, often under very little pressure and that he's only in his third season and clearly plays with several injuries. I'm not sure he can lift both arms above his shoulders all that well. I expect him to place well in the B&F.

 

[Milk Steak]

I'd have to disagree on all accounts.

His disposal is good enough. He'll never be a Cutler or a Mayes but he's closer to them then he is to Merrett. I've very rarely seen him play on someone taller than him in the last two seasons but he's been very good defensively. Certainly a lot better then the other options we have. Above all you have to remember how many inside 50s we give up, often under very little pressure and that he's only in his third season and clearly plays with several injuries. I'm not sure he can lift both arms above his shoulders all that well. I expect him to place well in the B&F.

If Gardiners disposal is good enough than our standards are too low I think. He can be very sloppy,a lot of the time on not overly difficult disposal attempts. He doesn't deserve to be dropped by any means,but it's not good enough by AFL standards. My opinion anyway.

 

[Nunez]

If Gardiners disposal is good enough than our standards are too low I think. He can be very sloppy,a lot of the time on not overly difficult disposal attempts. He doesn't deserve to be dropped by any means,but it's not good enough by AFL standards. My opinion anyway.

Season 1 I agree, Season 2 I agree, Season 3 not so much IMO. He has improved steadily on that regard this year and his disposals on the weekend bar maybe one kick were effective. I am with POBT in that his marking is the big next step he needs to take which IMO he'll get there.

 

[Kevvo]

If Gardiners disposal is good enough than our standards are too low I think. He can be very sloppy,a lot of the time on not overly difficult disposal attempts. He doesn't deserve to be dropped by any means,but it's not good enough by AFL standards. My opinion anyway.

My impression of it is that his disposal issues have mostly been from bad choices when under the pump rather than from a lack of technical ability. When he's got time, I think he's a pretty neat (though not damaging) kick. He's also been a little more active recently (in my opinion) in spreading to provide an option coming out of defence. That decision making is a problem, but I'm prepared to give him some benefit of the doubt because they have been relentlessly under the pump for the entire three years he's been here. As the team improves, I'd be confident his disposals will track along with it.

 

[LongLion]

The biggest concern with Lewy Taylor right now is that he can't take the ball clean. He fumbles almost every time. He is trying to do everything to quickly and not watching the ball. Also with such a light frame he needs to be out in the open more - he can't afford to be caught in contested situations. In his first year he was really good at finding space and creating space. I don't know why but he has lost that ability.

Took a couple of clean marks on the lead which was encouring from past efforts. Thought he worked and ran hard most of the game.

 

[Milk Steak]

Took a couple of clean marks on the lead which was encouring from past efforts. Thought he worked and ran hard most of the game.

From what I saw yesterday I'd have to agree. Not a massive game from him,but he looks like he's starting to turn his game around gradually,especially since he re-signed with the club. Tackling still an issue,but at least looks more forceful when attempting tackles. The lead and goal from Cutlers beautiful long pass into the 50 was a good sign I think. He shaved his head too,shows he means business now

 

[Tassie4ever]

Not to bag anyone's opinion, as we all see things differently.

But Gardiner? Seriously? He has basically no disposal skills, is uncoordinated in attacking the ball, is a woeful kick, wantonly gifts free kicks, and, apart from his frequently misdirected he-man efforts, applies minimal body contact. Oh, forgot- never takes marks.

If Gardiner is the answer, we're asking the wrong question. IMHO. Keep looking.

 

[jackess]

Not to bag anyone's opinion, as we all see things differently.

But Gardiner? Seriously? He has basically no disposal skills, is uncoordinated in attacking the ball, is a woeful kick, wantonly gifts free kicks, and, apart from his frequently misdirected he-man efforts, applies minimal body contact. Oh, forgot- never takes marks.

If Gardiner is the answer, we're asking the wrong question. IMHO. Keep looking.

Then we should delist 75% of our list.

 

[Milk Steak]

Not to bag anyone's opinion, as we all see things differently.

But Gardiner? Seriously? He has basically no disposal skills, is uncoordinated in attacking the ball, is a woeful kick, wantonly gifts free kicks, and, apart from his frequently misdirected he-man efforts, applies minimal body contact. Oh, forgot- never takes marks.

If Gardiner is the answer, we're asking the wrong question. IMHO. Keep looking.

Very critical,but if I'm honest I agree with a lot of those points. I still hold hope he'll be a decent player,there's no one really claiming his spot for the moment so worth persisting with for the time being. Hammelman will struggle to hold a spot next year with a full list though. Haven't seen much to be excited about there so far,maybe it's too early to tell.

 

[royboys4eva]

Remember that night when Collingwood kicked 100 goals against us this year. Gardiner was on the Pies best forward - Fasolo. See how many he kicked?

 

[Tassie4ever]

Then we should delist 75% of our list.

I think there are some on our current list who might be resurrected, but, TBH, if you were to be brutally honest there are many who just won't make it.

I was heartened by Close's mark in the square last week when he essentially out-muscled his opponent. Great effort, he's an obvious keeper.

I think Tommy Cutler looks a natural footballer- carries the pill well. Schache will do well when we learn to use his pace on the lead. Robinson a key. Keays coming along, albeit slowly. Mayes ok. Mathieson ditto.

I think our coaching was well summed up by Leppa yesterday- he said we "ran out of legs". In round 22. Implicitly, the coach is admitting we aren't fit. In round 22. Says it all really.