So basically Denmark relies on back up power from coal and nuclear, just like SA has been relying on backup from Victoria coal? And when the Vic back up fell out the whole state has gone into blackout?
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So basically Denmark relies on back up power from coal and nuclear, just like SA has been relying on backup from Victoria coal? And when the Vic back up fell out the whole state has gone into blackout?
Xsess
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Indeed.
The theory Victoria cut off South Australia to save themselves gaining wider traction. Also the "devastating" storm packed winds less than a category 1 cyclone.
And yes. This happened in Australia. In 2016
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/busines...t/news-story/019b8741af323d266e9b6fda96c04039
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No it wont
The national energy market regulator already warned sa of two things your scenario if bad weather hits it probably have said disaster and relying on a single point of failure fron vic/nsw was folly.
SA needs some on demand gas fired stations that can be turned on asap to balance their reliance on renewables
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smokingjacket
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I'd go further and say Denmark already has coal and nuclear power as part of their energy mix alongside baseload trash/biomass, although I don't think there's too much nuclear left. Electricity is part of the EU common market, Denmarks buys off Germany, Germany buys off Denmark on windy days. The aim is to have an integrated grid with a number of sources to flatten out prices. As I said earlier, Denmarks wind power is cheaper than coal most days but it's variable.
The EU model has been very effective at driving investment in renewables and keeping prices steady in a semi-privatised network but there are very obvious geographical differences between the Australian states and the EU.
It sounds like South Australia's problem is a mix of poor maintenance and lack of contingency planning between the states.
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Nice try troll.
Mass outages for a long time after that earthquake. massive change in lifestyle for the whole country.
There is three uncontrollable meltdowns at fukishima because the plant could not source any power. The transmission lines from coal powered plants were smashed by the earthquake. The earthquake shut down the plant. The plant was unable to cool the fuel rods in the reactors, because it had no power.
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agree
but here is the circular error that some will chose to ignore......there is no such thing as on demand gas fired power stations. Yes they are quicker than coal to respond but we are talking hours not minutes or seconds. Thus we are paying for gas to be operating in the background waiting ever so patiently for renewables to fail to deliver and then be called upon.
it's like going to the alter with a women but calling upon the mistress when things go dry and then expect everyone to be happy.
I believe renewables have there place but we are decades away from having renewables that can deliver what some think they can do today. At the same time, many of these people are the same that squawk about jobs disappearing.
I'd still like to wait for the report.
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definitely agree that the EU is a very different place than Australia but the cost have been a steady trend upward. the reports to the contrary are a sleight of hand as "the cost" of power production is net of subsidies (quoted lower than actual). but at the wholesale level and retail level the real cost is clear to see. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-25/why-do-germany-s-electricity-prices-keep-falling-
It doesn't mean we shouldn't go renewables but we should report costs accurately
Ditto UK re offshore wind. Re competitive advantage, its why Germany has got so worried re cheap US gas and manufacturing and why they will backtrack on renewables.
$5bn for hundreds of jobs. Right so how much per job is that? Magic pudding on steroids.
Distribution issue my arse.
See the time it was switched off there..that is because there were cyclonic wind speeds affecting the wind farms directly, hampering the safe operation of them. Had they operated in those conditions, the likelihood of damage from them increases exponentially.
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Distribution issue my arse.
you will note the articles talk about 40% "just before". unfortunately wind power has to be turned off during high wind speeds to protect the turbines.
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The above two posts are correct. But winds were less than even a category 1 cyclone yet caused the entire state's catastrophic power system fail. And its obvious this was the result of an immediate dramatic fall in power generation from wind. Its pretty shocking when you think about it, how that could possibly happen.
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Category 2 is 125 kph.
Category 1 is approximately 90. Got close to that in Port Augusta. And the forecast was for both to occur. Precautionary.
Category 1 is approximately 90. Got close to that in Port Augusta. And the forecast was for both to occur. Precautionary.
Power Raid
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energy security is over rated. who needs power all the time anyway? it is completely OK in 2016 to have no power in schools, hospitals, our roads, airports, high rise building with elevators etc.
I wonder if there is a correlation between SA losing industry and having the highest cost power and now high cost unreliable power. I wonder if there is a disconnect with the politics in SA regarding energy and the reality of policy and technology.
I guess we will have to wait for a review of findings. noted, it will be commissioned by a government responsible for the policy.
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Lol.
You posted that line purely so you could spread all the mayo you wanted, but if called out, you could refer back to it to pretend that you aren't a partisan hack.
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At least you're being honest now.
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Personally I don't care if SA wants to live in the dark ages; that is their choice. As having no power for a few hours doesn't mean much to most other than "something actually happened in SA!".
What we should all be very mindful of is our youth, our poor and most vulnerable in society may want jobs and may want affordable power. Some industries and business, may want cheap reliable power and if they can't get it........they leave. Leading to more pressure, especially in the blue collar sector.
So I would prefer to see a proper review of the power generation sector in SA and understand why it costs so much, what impact that has on the economy, who is impacted the most and energy security. but I do appreciate why you wouldn't want a sensible review and report.
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And you think renewable energy will stop all that...
There are no jobs in renewable energy...?
We can't ever have reliable power if we depend on renewable?
And renewable is such a problem... based on the results of the 'report' that you're waiting on...(before passing judgement) ?
Airtight!
Power Raid
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here is a start https://www.aemo.com.au/Media-Centre/-/media/BE174B1732CB4B3ABB74BD507664B270.ashx. I look forward to a sensible review being conducted in light of this event.
I do believe renewables have their place but as you can see by SA's power sector, something is horribly wrong. Some say the cost relates transmission system, some say its renewables. Similarly for issues like reliability. Let's have a proper review and discussion and remove politics from the debate.
In regards to jobs, you measure the success of employment by output not inputs. otherwise we would pull down electric street lighting and go back to have manually light candles. Mind you, that might be more reliable than current systems!
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FFS, you really arent much chop on economics. Those jobs come at a cost ie opportunity cost. No wind - no power, too much wind - no power. Reliable?
smokingjacket
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definitely agree that the EU is a very different place than Australia but the cost have been a steady trend upward. the reports to the contrary are a sleight of hand as "the cost" of power production is net of subsidies (quoted lower than actual). but at the wholesale level and retail level the real cost is clear to see. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-25/why-do-germany-s-electricity-prices-keep-falling-
It doesn't mean we shouldn't go renewables but we should report costs accurately
True their underlying cost of power is going up but some of the subsidies you're talking about aren't necessarily coming from the taxpayer, it's partly being cost recycled from elements of their carbon price.
smokingjacket
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There's no doubt it's a poor time in the EU to transition to a new economy but it's much better than standing still. I think they suffer from a lack of ambition rather than enough. Will be interesting to see what shape EU sustainability policy takes post-Brexit.
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