Review Round 6, 2017 - Brisbane Lions vs. Port Adelaide

[Mooch]

It will take a lot to drag the neutrals back. One experience doesn't make a trend, but I have been paying for an extra membership for a couple of years now and the mate I go to the footy with and I are finding it harder and harder to find the +1. Instead of picking a mate it's become a fortnightly search for someone willing to come. The old man came in to this game for only his 2nd game in about 15 years and he pretty much said "Now I know why I haven't been here in so long."

Same. My cousin and I bought an extra membership mostly for my father-in-law to use when over from the UK but haven't been able to give it away for the Essendon and Tigers games. We're really down to the die hards at the moment and it is an extremely hard sell to bring new blood into the crowd.

 

[carnthemlions]

We have a lot of players in our defense who aren't very good one-on-one defenders: Cutler, CBeams, Harwood, McStay. And a few who are really quite bad defenders: Mayes, Rich. Defensive rebound is very nice, but we're losing a lot (and by a lot) having so many "defenders" whose real skills are in counter-attack.

I think our core defenders will be fine if a miracle occurs and we can improve all over the ground. That's the biggest problem, your back 6 is really a last resort these days. If it's regularly getting inside 50 under no pressure, you're done unless the opposition has no composure at all (see Melbourne vs Richmond a couple of weeks ago). Mayes in particular has improved his defensive skills a lot I think, he actually had some good moments defensively vs Port. These days it's about finding a balance between running off your opponent/making them chase you, chasing your opponent, and zoning off to help out other defenders. What we need most is a solid 2nd tall who will allow McStay to zone off more and use his speed + disposal to rebound, and an upgrade on Ryan Harwood. The rest will be fine.

 

[13Beast]

What we need most is a solid 2nd tall who will allow McStay to zone off more and use his speed + disposal to rebound, and an upgrade on Ryan Harwood. The rest will be fine.

Any suggestions whom on our list could play that role? Paps is a nice size at 194cm, highly mobile and with a big engine...but is he a bit slight though to take most teams second forward target? Almost makes you want to throw Hipwood in defence just to see how him and Harris go working together in tandem. I doubt Walker would have the turn of pace to really excel week in week out playing on the leagues top forwards

 

[SizeMatters]

Any suggestions whom on our list could play that role? Paps is a nice size at 194cm, highly mobile and with a big engine...but is he a bit slight though to take most teams second forward target? Almost makes you want to throw Hipwood in defence just to see how him and Harris go working together in tandem. I doubt Walker would have the turn of pace to really excel week in week out playing on the leagues top forwards

I wonder if Walker could maybe play that role? I have not noticed him during the NEAFL games I've watched which is understandable considering our win/loss record so far so I don't really know if his good is good enough. I just feel he has the body to compete and if we give him the simple role of wearing his opponent like a glove I think he could do well enough.

 

[davemc_lions]

Some of the disposal from the back 6 lacks accuracy so the ball often just goes back in.
Not sure I want someone more offensive although better execution out of the back six would help.
McStay, Harwood are really 50-50 if the cough it straight up and at times Mayes/ N Robbo can be bad
So many stray handballs some straight to non Lions
Love to see the stat per player of intercepted kicks/handballs? Anyone know where to find such stats?

Harwood's stats show 90% eff on 20 disposals although 4 clangers? Which I would of thought bring it down to 80% if 4 out of 20 where clangers?
If you look at DE the rest of the backs it does not look as bad as it seems on TV so no idea how they do % is that just a clean kick/handball even to a Port player?
Andrews 94%, Gardiner 89%, C Beams 86%, Rich 80%, Cutler 78%, N Robbo 75%, Mayes/Mcstay 64%

On DE overall we had 5 more players under 65% compared to Port
who had 4 more players over 80%

 

[jackess]

Some of the disposal from the back 6 lacks accuracy so the ball often just goes back in.
Not sure I want someone more offensive although better execution out of the back six would help.
McStay, Harwood are really 50-50 if the cough it straight up and at times Mayes/ N Robbo can be bad
So many stray handballs some straight to non Lions
Love to see the stat per player of intercepted kicks/handballs? Anyone know where to find such stats?

Harwood's stats show 90% eff on 20 disposals although 4 clangers? Which I would of thought bring it down to 80% if 4 out of 20 where clangers?
If you look at DE the rest of the backs it does not look as bad as it seems on TV so no idea how they do % is that just a clean kick/handball even to a Port player?
Andrews 94%, Gardiner 89%, C Beams 86%, Rich 80%, Cutler 78%, N Robbo 75%, Mayes/Mcstay 64%

On DE overall we had 5 more players under 65% compared to Port
who had 4 more players over 80%

Clangers include frees against. Did he give away a couple?

 

[carnthemlions]

Some of the disposal from the back 6 lacks accuracy so the ball often just goes back in.
Not sure I want someone more offensive although better execution out of the back six would help.
McStay, Harwood are really 50-50 if the cough it straight up and at times Mayes/ N Robbo can be bad
So many stray handballs some straight to non Lions
Love to see the stat per player of intercepted kicks/handballs? Anyone know where to find such stats?

Harwood's stats show 90% eff on 20 disposals although 4 clangers? Which I would of thought bring it down to 80% if 4 out of 20 where clangers?
If you look at DE the rest of the backs it does not look as bad as it seems on TV so no idea how they do % is that just a clean kick/handball even to a Port player?
Andrews 94%, Gardiner 89%, C Beams 86%, Rich 80%, Cutler 78%, N Robbo 75%, Mayes/Mcstay 64%

On DE overall we had 5 more players under 65% compared to Port
who had 4 more players over 80%

I wish kicking efficiency stats were more easily available, they tend to tell you a lot more. Harwood's a player who tends to have good DE, but handballs a lot more than he kicks which I think covers up his kicking efficiency problems.

 

[fanackapan]

Clangers include frees against. Did he give away a couple?

Presumably also things like dropped uncontested marks? Mayes had a particularly bad one of those on the members' side wing that led fairly quickly to a goal.

 

[Gabbatoir]

Actually the highlight for me from this game was McStay in a footrace for 80m, fending off Dixon whilst spinning 180 degrees and hitting a leading target lace out. Absolute class.

 

[BRAB]

Actually the highlight for me from this game was McStay in a footrace for 80m, fending off Dixon whilst spinning 180 degrees and hitting a leading target lace out. Absolute class.

Mcstay definetely has his good moments. Very dynamic player

 

[Kevvo]

McStay was beaten quite badly in the first quarter IIRC but he kept trying hard and took the game on. When he has a few seconds to choose an option he is a beautiful long kick. I'd like to believe that a bit more time in a fixed position will improve his one-on-one defensive efforts at which point he'd be a very useful part of the backline.

I expect that the coaches are probably happy with his resilience if not his execution early.

 

[13Beast]

McStay was beaten quite badly in the first quarter IIRC but he kept trying hard and took the game on. When he has a few seconds to choose an option he is a beautiful long kick. I'd like to believe that a bit more time in a fixed position will improve his one-on-one defensive efforts at which point he'd be a very useful part of the backline.

I expect that the coaches are probably happy with his resilience if not his execution early.

2 games straight where it appears McStay has turned over a new leaf in regards to commitment, effort and using his brain/following the coache's advice and playing his position. Hope it all clicks and comes together for him...and he's still in Lions colours when that does!

 

[LongLion]

Was really disappointed in Stephs ability to clear the centre when he got hold of the ball. He just seemed to end up with possessions that did nothing but hand it back to Port. Hopefully a one off disaster game for him.

 

[PaddleFoot]

Actually the highlight for me from this game was McStay in a footrace for 80m, fending off Dixon whilst spinning 180 degrees and hitting a leading target lace out. Absolute class.

When I saw that he had lined up on Dixon, I assumed that they would be landing it on his head all game. And they did. Real mismatch. And with Ryder in control, it was lambs to the slaughter. He has to show more 2nd and 3rd efforts. One go just won't do down there.

 

[Nunez]

When I saw that he had lined up on Dixon, I assumed that they would be landing it on his head all game. And they did. Real mismatch. And with Ryder in control, it was lambs to the slaughter. He has to show more 2nd and 3rd efforts. One go just won't do down there.

I thought hìs follow up work against the dogs was great. It was nowhere near as good last week but tbh I watched his match up vs Dixon carefully and most marks Dixon took were well delivered kicks. Mcstay will have learned a lot from that matchup I'm sure.

 

[SizeMatters]

I wish kicking efficiency stats were more easily available, they tend to tell you a lot more. Harwood's a player who tends to have good DE, but handballs a lot more than he kicks which I think covers up his kicking efficiency problems.

Harwood plays a lot like a bloke still stuck in the Leppa years. Watch him play and he instinctually looks backwards or sideways a lot even if there are attacking options up field.. Taylor and Mayes to a lesser extent had that problem but they have improved immensely in that regard under Fagan. I hope Harwood can improve his decision making as I think he can offer a bit. I actually like him forward as he is clean at ground level and provides defensive pressure.

 

[SizeMatters]

McStay was beaten quite badly in the first quarter IIRC but he kept trying hard and took the game on. When he has a few seconds to choose an option he is a beautiful long kick. I'd like to believe that a bit more time in a fixed position will improve his one-on-one defensive efforts at which point he'd be a very useful part of the backline.

I expect that the coaches are probably happy with his resilience if not his execution early.

The problem is playing Gardiner, McStay and Andrews in the same defence. Gardiner and McStay both fail miserably against the second forward so one will be found out every week. I really like McStays offensive weapons though and think it suits Fagans game plan perfectly. If only Skinner was available...

 

[Kevvo]

The problem is playing Gardiner, McStay and Andrews in the same defence. Gardiner and McStay both fail miserably against the second forward so one will be found out every week. I really like McStays offensive weapons though and think it suits Fagans game plan perfectly. If only Skinner was available...

Not sure. I feel like McStay could still develop his game enough to handle a second tall (still hasn't played all that many games as a defender) and I think Gardiner does a good job on small to medium types. I reckon they're a chance to be compatible long term.

I hope Skinner works out but he's got to be more speculative than probable at this stage.

 

[SizeMatters]

I thought hìs follow up work against the dogs was great. It was nowhere near as good last week but tbh I watched his match up vs Dixon carefully and most marks Dixon took were well delivered kicks. Mcstay will have learned a lot from that matchup I'm sure.

McStay plays fine defensively until the last 2 or so seconds before the ball comes in. I can understand why he plays a bit off his opponent trying to play to his strengths (jump, reach etc) while trying to stay out of a wrestling match he would probably lose... however he really needs to smash hard into his opponents body when the ball is incoming to throw them off balance at the very least, he reads the play a tad too slow IMO. He just allows them too many free run ups and marks with some almost looking like uncontested marks. More time as a defender will hopefully improve a few aspects of his 1 on 1 defensive skills but gosh he looks exciting with ball in hand rebounding out of the defensive 50.

 

[Kevvo]

McStay plays fine defensively until the last 2 or so seconds before the ball comes in. I can understand why he plays a bit off his opponent trying to play to his strengths (jump, reach etc) while trying to stay out of a wrestling match he would probably lose... however he really needs to smash hard into his opponents body when the ball is incoming to throw them off balance at the very least, he reads the play a tad too slow IMO. He just allows them too many free run ups and marks with some almost looking like uncontested marks. More time as a defender will hopefully improve a few aspects of his 1 on 1 defensive skills but gosh he looks exciting with ball in hand rebounding out of the defensive 50.

I think that's right, and that's what gives me hope. Of any correctable issues, it seems like technique is something that can be taught and fixed as opposed to physical or attitude deficiencies. Up to this year I was concerned about his effort and concentration levels, but I reckon he is working hard to put in better second efforts etc. He still makes some terrible decisions at times, but I'm hopeful.

 

[pOleK]

The problem is playing Gardiner, McStay and Andrews in the same defence. Gardiner and McStay both fail miserably against the second forward so one will be found out every week. I really like McStays offensive weapons though and think it suits Fagans game plan perfectly. If only Skinner was available...

Once again just shows how big of an impact the retirement of Clarke was. If he had been able to play every game last year, he would have potentially been playing game number 100 this year. We just lack that extra bit of experience that Clarke would have provided in defence. Still brings a tear to my eye just thinking about Clarko

 

[notliondown]

Harwood plays a lot like a bloke still stuck in the Leppa years. Watch him play and he instinctually looks backwards or sideways a lot even if there are attacking options up field.. Taylor and Mayes to a lesser extent had that problem but they have improved immensely in that regard under Fagan. I hope Harwood can improve his decision making as I think he can offer a bit. I actually like him forward as he is clean at ground level and provides defensive pressure.

Add Rockliff to that for me. Almost every mark he runs back, stands, surveys, and lets the opposition man up. His work rate has lifted this year no doubt but geez it'd be nice if he could become damaging instead of just a link in a chain.

 

[jackess]

Add Rockliff to that for me. Almost every mark he runs back, stands, surveys, and lets the opposition man up. His work rate has lifted this year no doubt but geez it'd be nice if he could become damaging instead of just a link in a chain.

On the inside we need him at every contest because he's by far our best contested ball winner but on the outside, like you said, he's a momentum killer and only suited to the slow play. His kicking lacks penetration as well so he's no good on the switch or moving the ball back into the corridor.

Similar with D Beams.

 

[M Malice]

Haven't read through the whole thread but Josh Schache is in desperate need of a rest, looked so slow and ponderous on the weekend. His season was cut short through fatigue last season, give him this week off then a couple of weeks in and then he will get another break in the bye round in a few weeks.

Ryan Lester would be seriously under the pump if he wasn't in the leadership group.

It's a mystery why the big 3 were all down on the one weekend, maybe carrying such a huge midfield burden is taking its toll already.

Harris Andrews been out of form for a while now, please bring in Josh Walker to take some of the pressure off him. The leadership responsibilities in the back half may be getting to him at such a young age, just let him play his own game.

 

[Forward We Go]

Haven't read through the whole thread but Josh Schache is in desperate need of a rest, looked so slow and ponderous on the weekend. His season was cut short through fatigue last season, give him this week off then a couple of weeks in and then he will get another break in the bye round in a few weeks.

Ryan Lester would be seriously under the pump if he wasn't in the leadership group.

It's a mystery why the big 3 were all down on the one weekend, maybe carrying such a huge midfield burden is taking its toll already.

Harris Andrews been out of form for a while now, please bring in Josh Walker to take some of the pressure off him. The leadership responsibilities in the back half may be getting to him at such a young age, just let him play his own game.

If anyone needs/deserves a rest right now, Hipwood is that player. His GPS is the same workrate as a midfielder, is a little younger than Schache, body not as developed either however has been outperforming Josh in every game this year. I think Josh needs to play into similar form to last year before we say...take a rest. In saying that, ALL our young guns need to be nurtured throughout the year.