Review Round 6, 2017 - Brisbane Lions vs. Port Adelaide

[lionshine]

What does Schache have to do with the other players that were listed?

I'm not saying you don't. I'm saying listing good players average stats after 20 games doesn't show that Schache will turn into one. You could list similar stats for players who went on to have very average careers. Must be tough to understand, I know.

I never said that it did and I've already clarified that which you chose to ignore??

 

[PaddleFoot]

I was on Schache watch last night at the game. Took my trusty binoculars.

IMO he needs to add two things to his game immediately. Aggression/hunger for the contest (his body is big enough) and an ability to reach down below his knees.

So - apart from not wanting the ball and not being able to get the ball, he's going ok ? Maybe put him behind the ball for awhile. And review our drafting. The track record has been pretty poor.

 

[OldLion]

Again .. another year when we have become irrelevant real quick. It took all of 5 minutes ... boys against men. Thank you linesmen ..

 

[Mooch]

I think he must be struggling after his injury tbh. While stat wise he hasn't gone too bad, his contested marking and work below his knees are two things he is struggling with. He showed last year he can do both well. I think he has a big laps in confidence more than anything. I remember years ago I injured my shoulder and spent 4 months on the sidelines. I got back in and played but felt no confidence in my shoulder and avoided contacts subconsciously at all costs. It took a good year of playing to get my confidence back and the year later I played my best footy to date. Not that I was ever great of course lol.

Point is, Schache is young, coming back from injury and playing in a team that is on a 5 game losing streak. He just needs to heed the coaches' advice and build confidence. I actually think time in the reserves would benefit him.

He also just cannot turn. Watch the number of times he is chasing a player who turns quickly and Schache just can't.

 

[Football Pope]

But they don't and this is why they are playing NEAFL and I thought that this was pretty evident. Find it laughable some responses on here. When these blokes you listed play in the firsts they're hot and cold, drop easy marks, miss targets by both hand and foot, don't lay tackles and put their head over the footy but then we have a game like last night and everyone wants them back in.

I don't believe it is evident at all....Freeman, Jansen, Paperone, Walker and Smith haven't had a call up this year..Bewick showed a lot pre-season, Lester looks slow but still getting a gig...and we only ever seem to play Bell forward.. As I said,... they need to make the most of their opportunities when presented.. we're talking 11 experience players not getting regular gigs passing their time in the NEAFL..It says a lot about us as a Club, how far off the mark we are and will be for a long time...Questionable past recruiting with long contracts. And the fact we lack coaching ability to develop these players with basic skills, (highlighted above) to get past a 2nd tier state league comp, that is lower than the VFL...now that's laughable..

 

[carnthemlions]

I don't believe it is evident at all....Freeman, Jansen, Paperone, Walker and Smith haven't had a call up this year..Bewick showed a lot pre-season, Lester looks slow but still getting a gig...and we only ever seem to play Bell forward.. As I said,... they need to make the most of their opportunities when presented.. we're talking 11 experience players not getting regular gigs passing their time in the NEAFL..It says a lot about us as a Club, how far off the mark we are and will be for a long time...Questionable past recruiting with long contracts. And the fact we lack coaching ability to develop these players with basic skills, (highlighted above) to get past a 2nd tier state league comp, that is lower than the VFL...now that's laughable..

It's pretty obvious why most of those guys aren't in the side. Paparone could be something but has had injuries, Smith is promising but will only play when Matin needs a break, Freeman could still make a go of it at this level but you wouldn't play him over Schache/Hipwood/Close. The other three really aren't worth mentioning.

 

[Football Pope]

It's pretty obvious why most of those guys aren't in the side. Paparone could be something but has had injuries, Smith is promising but will only play when Matin needs a break, Freeman could still make a go of it at this level but you wouldn't play him over Schache/Hipwood/Close. The other three really aren't worth mentioning.

Again I'll say it..."That they need to make the most of their opportunities when presented."

 

[DanT7]

Out:
McCluggage (rested), Berry (rested), Gardiner (play midfield in NEAFL, learn offensive game), Schache (confidence)

In: Bewick, Paparone, Walker (to play back), Archie Smith

Again, ALL of training dedicated to kick ins. Just kick ins. Only kick ins.

 

[Nunez]

He also just cannot turn. Watch the number of times he is chasing a player who turns quickly and Schache just can't.

For sure, and considering how well he was running last year and he looked pretty good in jlt1 really does point to injury and lack of confidence as a result.

Out:
McCluggage (rested), Berry (rested), Gardiner (play midfield in NEAFL, learn offensive game), Schache (confidence)

In: Bewick, Paparone, Walker (to play back), Archie Smith

Again, ALL of training dedicated to kick ins. Just kick ins. Only kick ins.

I really don't understand your desire to drop dizzy. Our defense is a whole lot better with him in it. Even this week which was pretty awful, he was our best 1v1 defender (not counting Rich or Cutler who had quarterback roles). Went at 89% as well (with double the meters gained than Andrews and almost triple Harwoods). It was also his first game back from injury. He's got a lot of work to do, but has been making strides this year. Especially in his offensive game. He is a defender first and foremost and so long as he keeps improving his offensive game and develops his disposals he will be fine. Unless he becomes a defensive liability he deserves time in the AFL to develop his offense.

 

[jackess]

I never said that it did and I've already clarified that which you chose to ignore??

So your saying he could be good, he could be bad but here are some stats of good key forwards who had slow starts to their career.

 

[T Rick]

As a family member said- why would you give up any of your precious time to watch a group of over-privileged, overpaid, mediocre is good enough, underachieving kids disappoint as per.

In any other side, eg, Rich would be booted to send a message. Instead, week after week he clocks on, clocks off


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I don't understand the Rich angst...he has had one poor game this year and has really lifted and is playing well and consistently putting his body on the line, in my opinion.

 

[scoman]

We simply have to win one of the next two games to stay on track for a minimum four wins. Sydney and the Hawks are vulnerable.

I mentioned this yesterday i know, but we have very very few injuries, we are playing with a more experianced team than last year, we have according to all opinion a much better coaching setup and off field structure. This has to transfer to wins.

Football clubs exist to win games of football. Its time to do that. I know our middle group of players is terrible but we managed to win three games last year with a younger side, a horrendous injury list and a lol inspiring coaching setup. Any less than four wins this year and no amount of trust in Fagan/ Noble gibberish will keep many of the few Lions fans left interested.

 

[CarterS]

We simply have to win one of the next two games to stay on track for a minimum four wins. Sydney and the Hawks are vulnerable.

I mentioned this yesterday i know, but we have very very few injuries, we are playing with a more experianced team than last year, we have according to all opinion a much better coaching setup and off field structure. This has to transfer to wins.

Football clubs exist to win games of football. Its time to do that. I know our middle group of players is terrible but we managed to win three games last year with a younger side, a horrendous injury list and a lol inspiring coaching setup. Any less than four wins this year and no amount of trust in Fagan/ Noble gibberish will keep many of the few Lions fans left interested.

It will take a lot to drag the neutrals back. One experience doesn't make a trend, but I have been paying for an extra membership for a couple of years now and the mate I go to the footy with and I are finding it harder and harder to find the +1. Instead of picking a mate it's become a fortnightly search for someone willing to come. The old man came in to this game for only his 2nd game in about 15 years and he pretty much said "Now I know why I haven't been here in so long."

 

[davemc_lions]

I don't understand the Rich angst...he has had one poor game this year and has really lifted and is playing well and consistently putting his body on the line, in my opinion.

I rewatched the first again late last night Rich was one of the ones going in when they went 7 zip. There was a lot of passengers.
Keays tried and interesting Schache and McLuggae got more of the ball then the rest of the match almost in the first

Watching its the poor choices in targets, missed marks and tackles that made it 7 zip.
if we hit people, marked the ball and stuck more then 2 tackles it probably would not of been 7 zip.
The amount of one on one marking contests our big blokes miss the marks is very telling although its stick figures against men.
Another few years they hopefully bulk up and take them

 

[JakePeralta]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think we just seem to play worse at the Gabba? Worst games this year have been Richmond/PA, and there's a case for the Essendon game too, and what do you know, all at home. It's like they don't "get up" for home games like they have for away games this year. Idk, it's probably nothing, but just an observation that I made over the weekend.

 

[Dylan12]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think we just seem to play worse at the Gabba? Worst games this year have been Richmond/PA, and there's a case for the Essendon game too, and what do you know, all at home. It's like they don't "get up" for home games like they have for away games this year. Idk, it's probably nothing, but just an observation that I made over the weekend.

It is even more rare that they "get up" for games in Melbourne or Perth. Trust me, I've missed only the odd few in the past 12 years in both states and they've been horrible except for the odd few.

 

[John_Proctor]

For sure, and considering how well he was running last year and he looked pretty good in jlt1 really does point to injury and lack of confidence as a result.



I really don't understand your desire to drop dizzy. Our defense is a whole lot better with him in it. Even this week which was pretty awful, he was our best 1v1 defender (not counting Rich or Cutler who had quarterback roles). Went at 89% as well (with double the meters gained than Andrews and almost triple Harwoods). It was also his first game back from injury. He's got a lot of work to do, but has been making strides this year. Especially in his offensive game. He is a defender first and foremost and so long as he keeps improving his offensive game and develops his disposals he will be fine. Unless he becomes a defensive liability he deserves time in the AFL to develop his offense.

I haven't watched many of our games this year but I do sometimes wonder with Gardiner if people confuse effort with 'being a good defender'.

After M Robbo he is probably our most agressive player and the one whose effort you can't question. That has a nice feel about it but doesn't necessarily mean that he's done a good job on his opponent.

From my perspective I'm still not sure about him. I think he is too slow to play on the smalls and too small to play on the bigs. probably doesn't have the tank to play on a mid sized high half forward either.

He also doesn't have the offensive game to be a rebounding defender (hence the comment that you replied to suggesting he play in midfield at NEAFL level to get some possessions and have to use the football) (and plays in a defence that doesn't have many high possession/quality ball users eg. Robertson and Harwood who aren't great kicks, McStay and Andrews who are low possession talls).

If that is the case where does that leave him?

I agree he is in our best 22 but I think he creates some awkward team balance issues in defense.

I think from a balance perspective we might be better with Frost in as gorrilla defender, freeing up Andrews/McStay to be more intercept mark players which they are both good at, with Gardiner out.

 

[Dylan12]

I think from a balance perspective we might be better with Frost in as gorrilla defender, freeing up Andrews/McStay to be more intercept mark players which they are both good at, with Gardiner out.

I wouldn't say Frost is a big defender either though.

 

[jackess]

I haven't watched many of our games this year but I do sometimes wonder with Gardiner if people confuse effort with 'being a good defender'.

After M Robbo he is probably our most agressive player and the one whose effort you can't question. That has a nice feel about it but doesn't necessarily mean that he's done a good job on his opponent.

From my perspective I'm still not sure about him. I think he is too slow to play on the smalls and too small to play on the bigs. probably doesn't have the tank to play on a mid sized high half forward either.

He also doesn't have the offensive game to be a rebounding defender (hence the comment that you replied to suggesting he play in midfield at NEAFL level to get some possessions and have to use the football) (and plays in a defence that doesn't have many high possession/quality ball users eg. Robertson and Harwood who aren't great kicks, McStay and Andrews who are low possession talls).

If that is the case where does that leave him?

I agree he is in our best 22 but I think he creates some awkward team balance issues in defense.

I think from a balance perspective we might be better with Frost in as gorrilla defender, freeing up Andrews/McStay to be more intercept mark players which they are both good at, with Gardiner out.

I could not disagree more. Who would you rather play on Gray on the weekend; Mayes, Robertson, Cutler, Harwood, Rich or Gardiner?

Pretty easy choice for me.

He doesn't have to be a rebounding defender. They can't all be, but he's a good enough kick. He doesn't turn it over constantly. We need some defenders. We also need someone who can cover on talls and smalls.

 

[royboys4eva]

Gardiner every day of the week and twice on sundays before Frost.

 

[Billy Puller]

Id like to throw a shout out to all you Ben Keays haters out there. Look what he did when he was played closer to his preferred position and not out of possy as a small forward. Guys a midfielder first who can push forward second - as he gets bigger faster & stronger he will only get better. The weekend was just a taste of what he can do. His ceiling is a consistent 30+ possession gatherer and a goal or two a game. Think Dayne Beams but probably not as good a kick.

I for one am stoked he got some leather poisoning and proved he could rack up the touches at this level, I hope he gets more time through the midfield and the wing. And you lot find another whipping boy to whip. Rather than our second and third year players.

 

[jackess]

Id like to throw a shout out to all you Ben Keays haters out there. Look what he did when he was played closer to his preferred position and not out of possy as a small forward. Guys a midfielder first who can push forward second - as he gets bigger faster & stronger he will only get better. The weekend was just a taste of what he can do. His ceiling is a consistent 30+ possession gatherer and a goal or two a game. Think Dayne Beams but probably not as good a kick.

I for one am stoked he got some leather poisoning and proved he could rack up the touches at this level, I hope he gets more time through the midfield and the wing. And you lot find another whipping boy to whip. Rather than our second and third year players.

Seemed to use the ball a lot better when he was getting it out in a lot of space. Positive signs but a long way to go.

 

[Hollow Knight]

We have Ben Keays haters?

 

[fanackapan]

I could not disagree more. Who would you rather play on Gray on the weekend; Mayes, Robertson, Cutler, Harwood, Rich or Gardiner?

Pretty easy choice for me.

He doesn't have to be a rebounding defender. They can't all be, but he's a good enough kick. He doesn't turn it over constantly. We need some defenders. We also need someone who can cover on talls and smalls.

We have a lot of players in our defense who aren't very good one-on-one defenders: Cutler, CBeams, Harwood, McStay. And a few who are really quite bad defenders: Mayes, Rich. Defensive rebound is very nice, but we're losing a lot (and by a lot) having so many "defenders" whose real skills are in counter-attack.

 

[jackess]

We have a lot of players in our defense who aren't very good one-on-one defenders: Cutler, CBeams, Harwood, McStay. And a few who are really quite bad defenders: Mayes, Rich. Defensive rebound is very nice, but we're losing a lot (and by a lot) having so many "defenders" whose real skills are in counter-attack.

I think Mayes and Rich are developing their defensive game a lot better. Andrews and Gardiner are quite good users and McStay potentially should be great rebounding. Another area of improvement will be getting off your man to third man up which Gardiner is reasonably good at.