Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

[No SPIN]

In this instance I don't actually care if you agree because you're the one with the issue. It also had nothing to do with Buckley and everything to do with the immaturity of JDG's comments. You missed that. Move on!

Very harsh here Sco.
You're acting as if JDG support for Buckley may actually dramatically impact the prospects of Buckley's reappointment, and you therefore need to discredit it accordingly, which is completely off the mark.

JDG's opinion HAS NOTHING to do with whether Buckley stays. Therefore this attack on the kid because of his admiration for Bucks, is completely unwarranted.

He is entitled to his view, and its unfair for either you, me or anyone else , to diminish the value of his personal opinion.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

He can come provided he brings some players with him.

Tippet

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Tippet

Wash your mouth out.

 

[Kilmo]

Hi guys,

Please don't shoot the messenger, but I just thought I would share a snippet of information I heard from Carlton CEO / former Crows CEO Steven Trigg.

He said informally at a function that only Collingwood would be having the discussion about Buck's future at this stage, and that at any other club his job would be safe. His words were (more or less): "Who else could Collingwood get that would do a better job with the team than Nathan Buckley?"
Others including Crows CEO Andrew Fagan concurred.

Make of that what you will, I just thought it was an interesting perspective.

 

[magpies2013]

So what happens if bucks gets re appointed for 2 years and in 12 months we are in the exact same position hearing the same excuses that we are 12-18 months away from being successful which we have been hearing for the last 4 years.Just hurry up and sack him he is hopeless.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Hi guys,

Please don't shoot the messenger, but I just thought I would share a snippet of information I heard from Carlton CEO / former Crows CEO Steven Trigg.

He said informally at a function that only Collingwood would be having the discussion about Buck's future at this stage, and that at any other club his job would be safe. His words were (more or less): "Who else could Collingwood get that would do a better job with the team than Nathan Buckley?"
Others including Crows CEO Andrew Fagan concurred.

Make of that what you will, I just thought it was an interesting perspective.

Sheedy said exactly the same thing on Radio

 

[jackcass]

Crowd Number keep getting Smaller and funny how we have not heard the Membership Numbers Yet

Crowd numbers are actually up year to date. In 2016 we averaged 44,192, 2017 thus far 49,782.

 

[barrackers]

Buckley to Gold Coast ???

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/07/05/waldron-afl-pushing-bucks-to-suns/

 

[anshell]

Obviously people from other clubs are going to support Buckley staying in the job because it's in their best interests that he remains there.Just remember these people do not have Collingwood's best interests at heart,so their support of Buckley is very telling.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Obviously people from other clubs are going to support Buckley staying in the job because it's in their best interests that he remains there.Just remember these people do not have Collingwood's best interests at heart,so their support of Buckley is very telling.

Or they are impartial observers who have no dog in this fight

 

[jackcass]

I'm not sure that changing coaches will be enough to drag us out of this malaise. We've gut structural problems at the club, and they start at the top.

Disagree. Irrespective of whether we change coach at the end of this season I think we're close to turning it around on field. The risk the club runs in changing coach is that there are actually a number of players who came to the club in part because Bucks was coach, and the majority of the squad appear behind him, we risk 2012 style player unrest which could be detrimental to 2018 performance. I'll watch with interest but as I say, I think if we can attract a KPF in the off-season we'll bounce very quickly.

 

[jackcass]

He's auditioning for Hine's job.
Eddie: Chris, in your opinion will we need a list overhaul?
CP: No, changes will be minimal, the list is strong.
Eddie: Then why do we need you?
CP: I'll get you the cream, just like I did at Hawthorn.
Eddie: but you didn't actually.......
CP: minor detail, Eddie.

Is he still involved at club level? Hasn't he set up a company to provide reports on potential draftees?

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Is he still involved at club level? Hasn't he set up a company to provide reports on potential draftees?

I don't think so.
I've read some potential draftee reports, interesting because two reports about the same player can be quite different. Put it this way, some are trying to turn the game into something more complex than what it is. Complete wank depending on who's writing the report. Becomes more about them than the player.

 

[ant22]

Disagree. Irrespective of whether we change coach at the end of this season I think we're close to turning it around on field. The risk the club runs in changing coach is that there are actually a number of players who came to the club in part because Bucks was coach, and the majority of the squad appear behind him, we risk 2012 style player unrest which could be detrimental to 2018 performance. I'll watch with interest but as I say, I think if we can attract a KPF in the off-season we'll bounce very quickly.

I doubt players would leave because Bucks leaves. If anything when a new coach comes in they have a honeymoon period in the first 12 months and the players often enjoy the change. They would be smart enough to understand the results have been poor and except the decision. It's not like he can take players with him ala Thomas with Mick because I can't see him getting another gig any time soon.

As for comments from Trigg saying he would be safe at any other club. That's Rubbish. I can't remember a coach of any club keeping his job after so many years of poor results.

 

[Scribe26]

There's improvement coming in this list.

Whether it's Buckley coaching or Paul Roos, it's coming.

How much improvement is up for debate, but you can't argue with the fact that in a crazy season if we kicked straight in early games, had a few umpiring decisions go our way against Melbourne or if Stevey J doesn't pull off a fluke etc etc etc... we're at 7-7 instead of 5-9, still in the finals picture, showing the kind of improvement you'd expect from a young list and Buckley is odds on to keep his job.

Keen observers will notice that in the last fortnight, Nathan has started saying that there's 'holes in the list' that need filling. The narrative has changed already. It's a backpedal and worth talking about as the pitch begins for 2018 and beyond.

Our clear needs, as I see them.

- A competent, dangerous, mobile, straight-kicking key forward (I don't know if this person exists - but I'd be basing a package around Steele Sidebottom to the Gold Coast to find out if Peter Wright can be had)
- A younger, healthier and professional version of Daniel Wells (identifying that Wells' skill set would help us was spot on. Trusting a 32 year old injury-prone pea-heart, not so much - it's almost worth using our first pick on this).
- A solid plan B for Brodie Grundy's eventual injury that isn't an American. (Can anyone imagine what we'd look like if Brodie Grundy got injured? This keeps me up at night)
- A key defender/swingman to pair with McClarty when Reid/Dunn pack it in (What I'd be using our first pick on, unless there's a Fyfe/Bont like phenom waiting for us)

I'm not 100% sure I trust Buckley or Derek Hyne to get these decisions right.

Bucks can complain about the media intensity all he likes, but the truth of the matter is that we're the most interesting club in football right now.

- We've got a club legend in the final year of a contract as coach.
- Either the club has rated the list wrong or sold the idea of the list wrong to the members - probably both. This has split the fan base, caused unrest and created a PR nightmare.
- We've spent 4 years without playing finals with absolutely no guarantee that we will remedy that in 2018.
- Can the same people who thought Chris Mayne was worth 4 years and Daniel Wells worth 3 years - both on big money - be capable of identifying and solving the problems with this rebuild? Or does someone else have to come in to clean shop and start again?

I'm fascinated with how the next 2 months play out. I just hope we get the right journalists asking the right questions and not chasing cheap clickbait headlines. Time will tell.

FWIW - I think if we continue to be competitive for the rest of the season and win around 9-10 games, Nathan will hold his seat until the end of 2019.

Derek Hyne and his recruiting and list management team should be the first out the door.

Thanks for 2010 Derek, but you'd be the first person I replace this summer.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

There's improvement coming in this list.

Whether it's Buckley coaching or Paul Roos, it's coming.

How much improvement is up for debate, but you can't argue with the fact that in a crazy season if we kicked straight in early games, had a few umpiring decisions go our way against Melbourne or if Stevey J doesn't pull off a fluke etc etc etc... we're at 7-7 instead of 5-9, still in the finals picture, showing the kind of improvement you'd expect from a young list and Buckley is odds on to keep his job.

Keen observers will notice that in the last fortnight, Nathan has started saying that there's 'holes in the list' that need filling. The narrative has changed already. It's a backpedal and worth talking about as the pitch begins for 2018 and beyond.

Our clear needs, as I see them.

- A competent, dangerous, mobile, straight-kicking key forward (I don't know if this person exists - but I'd be basing a package around Steele Sidebottom to the Gold Coast to find out if Peter Wright can be had)
- A younger, healthier and professional version of Daniel Wells (identifying that Wells' skill set would help us was spot on. Trusting a 32 year old injury-prone pea-heart, not so much - it's almost worth using our first pick on this).
- A solid plan B for Brodie Grundy's eventual injury that isn't an American. (Can anyone imagine what we'd look like if Brodie Grundy got injured? This keeps me up at night)
- A key defender/swingman to pair with McClarty when Reid/Dunn pack it in (What I'd be using our first pick on, unless there's a Fyfe/Bont like phenom waiting for us)

I'm not 100% sure I trust Buckley or Derek Hyne to get these decisions right.

Bucks can complain about the media intensity all he likes, but the truth of the matter is that we're the most interesting club in football right now.

- We've got a club legend in the final year of a contract as coach.
- Either the club has rated the list wrong or sold the idea of the list wrong to the members - probably both. This has split the fan base, caused unrest and created a PR nightmare.
- We've spent 4 years without playing finals with absolutely no guarantee that we will remedy that in 2018.
- Can the same people who thought Chris Mayne was worth 4 years and Daniel Wells worth 3 years - both on big money - be capable of identifying and solving the problems with this rebuild? Or does someone else have to come in to clean shop and start again?

I'm fascinated with how the next 2 months play out. I just hope we get the right journalists asking the right questions and not chasing cheap clickbait headlines. Time will tell.

FWIW - I think if we continue to be competitive for the rest of the season and win around 9-10 games, Nathan will hold his seat until the end of 2019.

Derek Hyne and his recruiting and list management team should be the first out the door.

Thanks for 2010 Derek, but you'd be the first person I replace this summer.

Sorry. I read the part about Paul Roos and became physically ill. I'll read the rest when the nausea passes.

 

[Scribe26]

Sorry. I read the part about Paul Roos and became physically ill. I'll read the rest when the nausea passes.

haha.. best you get used to it now. It's going to be the first name Ed chases that will help save his own bacon if Nathan is deemed a failure.

 

[PieBeast]

Hi guys,

Please don't shoot the messenger, but I just thought I would share a snippet of information I heard from Carlton CEO / former Crows CEO Steven Trigg.

He said informally at a function that only Collingwood would be having the discussion about Buck's future at this stage, and that at any other club his job would be safe. His words were (more or less): "Who else could Collingwood get that would do a better job with the team than Nathan Buckley?"
Others including Crows CEO Andrew Fagan concurred.

Make of that what you will, I just thought it was an interesting perspective.

I would've asked Triggy who from the recent coaches other than maybe Hird could have done a worse job than Buckley with the list he inherited.

 

[Kilmo]

Obviously people from other clubs are going to support Buckley staying in the job because it's in their best interests that he remains there.Just remember these people do not have Collingwood's best interests at heart,so their support of Buckley is very telling.

I understand where you are coming from but FWIW this wasn't Trigg supporting Buckley's position, it was him giving his personal opinion on the matter.

 

[Scribe26]

I would've asked Triggy who from the recent coaches other than maybe Hird could have done a worse job than Buckley with the list he inherited.

How 'recent'?

• Guy McKenna's reputation as a man-manager was lower than shark sh1it when he was sacked from one of the most plum gigs in all of football at GC.
• Brendan McCartney, read above.
• Justin Leppitsch ring any bells?
• How's Ross Lyon's rebuild going at Fremantle after failing with the 'list he inherited'?
• Mick Malthouse did wonders at Carlton - a list with 5 #1 picks that was supposedly good enough to push deep into September?
• Ken Hinkley has been up and down at Port.
• Brad Scott maxed out an old list, never finished inside the top 4, 'achieved' a couple of prelim thumpings and then created a PR nightmare with Boomer and co.

How far back do you want to go?

I'd be embarrassed for you if you asked a ridiculous, theoretical, speculative question like that to a CEO, or anyone in football.

 

[jackcass]

Bucks can complain about the media intensity all he likes, but the truth of the matter is that we're the most interesting club in football right now.

I don't think I've ever heard Bucks complain about the media intensity.

He's made comment on the relevance and appropriateness of the ambulance chasers doing the ambush interviews. Is that what you're referring to?

 

[Scribe26]

I don't think I've ever heard Bucks complain about the media intensity.

He's made comment on the relevance and appropriateness of the ambulance chasers doing the ambush interviews. Is that what you're referring to?

Probably wrong choice of words. More 'bemoaning' than complaining.

To paraphrase, he's often talked about the intensity of the speculation on his role and the club - openly pining for the 'more even' coverage that other clubs may receive.

I don't think he's a complainer at all. The opposite in fact. I retract that.

 

[jackcass]

I would've asked Triggy who from the recent coaches other than maybe Hird could have done a worse job than Buckley with the list he inherited.

Or conversely who does he think would have done any better given the impending decay of the list he inherited and the season's torn asunder by injury?

 

[PieBeast]

How 'recent'?

• Guy McKenna's reputation as a man-manager was lower than shark sh1it when he was sacked from one of the most plum gigs in all of football at GC.
• Brendan McCartney, read above.
• Justin Leppitsch ring any bells?
• How's Ross Lyon's rebuild going at Fremantle after failing with the 'list he inherited'?
• Mick Malthouse did wonders at Carlton - a list with 5 #1 picks that was supposedly good enough to push deep into September?
• Ken Hinkley has been up and down at Port.
• Brad Scott maxed out an old list, never finished inside the top 4, 'achieved' a couple of prelim thumpings and then created a PR nightmare with Boomer and co.

How far back do you want to go?

I'd be embarrassed for you if you asked a ridiculous, theoretical, speculative question like that to a CEO, or anyone in football.

McKenna and Leppitch while being equally inept at coaching as Buckley wouldn't turn the noses of the core senior players out of joint.
McCartney is widely acknowledged as laying a foundation of a flag with his tough love approach.
And none of them had as good of a list to work with as Buckley.
The rest of your tripe isn't even worth refuting.

Or conversely who does he think would have done any better given the impending decay of the list he inherited and the season's torn asunder by injury?

Impending decay of the youngest list to win the flag in more than 20 years that all of a sudden resembled walking wounded as soon as Buckley applied his magic touch?
Yeah, that would have made for an interesting question.

 

[jdpie]

Or conversely who does he think would have done any better given the impending decay of the list he inherited and the season's torn asunder by injury?

As Collingwood supporters we have mastered the art of romanticising and remodelling history to suit ourselves.
Has anyone really done an in depth review of the 2011 list and looked at how those that departed have performed in the subsequent years ?
I just think of the rapid decline of Dawes, Jolly, Ball, Toovey, Caff, Nathan Brown, Thomas and H. There are others that have departed and gone ok but other than Heater and, to an injury riddled extent, Beams who has improved ?
We keep talking of a list that was primed for greatness maybe our zenith of that list was 10/11 and it was always going to decline. Decisions since should be questioned but lets not pretend we had the list of a Hawthorn like dynasty.