Should the AFL be a moral compass for us?

[Grongey]

Pretty much exactly what I said.
Maybe you should actually read the post before leaping to your pathetic MRA crusade.

I did read and understood your post, and unfortunately for you, I understood the motivation behind it.

I'm not about to be goaded into online bullying, better luck next time. Fairfax blogging might be better for you.

 

[nobbyiscool]

I did read and understood your post, and unfortunately for you, I understood the motivation behind it.

I'm not about to be goaded into online bullying, better luck next time. Fairfax blogging might be better for you.

Motivated to see genuine equality and for people to recognise inequality. What a terrible person I am.

Jerking yourself off to MRA sites full of made up stats and information about how hard done by men are might be better for you.

 

[domus]

Yes, and next season to save us time I think they should introduce "Everything But Straight White Male Round" to save us all a bit of time.

I'd like to see a pro -life round next year. Surely the AFL cares about little babies.

 

[domus]

Motivated to see genuine equality and for people to recognise inequality. What a terrible person I am.

Jerking yourself off to MRA sites full of made up stats and information about how hard done by men are might be better for you.

Don't know the full context but reading this statement made me chortle at the sheer magnitude of its idiocy.

I would suggest mythical wage gaps, manspreading and traffic light symbols being used to demonstrate how hard women have got it might be something which excites you by the sound of it.

Shockingly high suicide rates, workplace deaths, homelessness , plummeting university graduation rates, zero recognition or support for male victims of family violence, much longer jail terms for the same crime for males compared to females, zero reproductive rights, family court bias which tears men's kids from their lives are all slightly more serious and real than the rubbish rammed down our throats by our left wing, feminist media about the oppression suffered by women in Australia everyday. Hardly worth jerking off over I would suggest. Perhaps a tiny word of empathy or compassion would be more appropriate.

By the way, which of the many issues affecting males mentioned above do you consider to be "made up"?

 

[GuzzLG]

No, they should just shut up and make their money. Should also pay income tax like every other business.

 

[ziad]

If I want a 'Moral Compass' it certainly will not be the AFL.

They have no credibility and a track record a whore house would be ashamed of.

 

[StPiper]

Did everyone see the bird Lethlean reportedly clipped? Maddi Blomberg?

Pig of a thing

Seriously?

 

[domus]

Are people really so ignorant to think that today's sackings are down to morality?

Neither man resigned (was made to resign) because they had an affair - it was because they had an affair with a staff member who was junior/subordinate to them, with a massive power imbalance between the senior executive and the underling staff member.

That people think that neither woman (publicly) complained is even remotely relevant makes me question how far we as a society have really come as it relates to gender equality.

Does any rational minded person think for one second that a comparatively junior staffer would make a complaint against a very powerful senior executive of the countries biggest sporting code if she felt intimidated or compelled to comply with his requests? I don't suggest this is what happened - but I don't know. None of us do.

And that's kind of the point. None of us ever will, because women in this situation are still viewed as "sluts", "home-wreckers" or other derogatory terms, and because if either woman wants a career in a still very patriarchal society, they literally can't speak out.

Have a read up on Amber Harrison to see why in 2017 a woman still can't make sexual-based allegations against powerful men from powerful corporations.


Maybe they did instigate it. Maybe. But it still doesn't change anything, because that power imbalance still exists, and because that woman still doesn't have the free will that most of us have to end a relationship, because she would be in fear of her job if she did so. The senior executive is still the one that has to have the maturity and the seniority to ensure that such a relationship doesn't happen in the first place.

You have got to be joking. Two adult women had affairs with men they knew were married and one (maybe both) were in relationships of their own yet all of the fury and outcry has been directed at the men. Unless we discover the women were raped or forced into a relationship with threats then they are mutually culpable. In this patriarchal society you refer to, the mere accusation of sexual misconduct by a man toward a woman can and has destroyed careers, even when the charges prove to be unfounded. Please show me the Herald Sun headlines referring to the women as sluts or home wreckers. It is the men who are being targeted and having their integrity and reputations questioned.

I just watched a documentary on the Duke Lacrosse team in America which was branded a group of racist, sexist, rapists after a black female stripper concocted a story about players sexually assaulting her. People lost their jobs, the uni was under siege-street marches had banners demanding the castration of the team. It took a year of this abuse before the truth finally came out-the entire story was a lie. The girl did not receive any kind of punishment for her lies which could have seen three young men spending 30 years in prison, if not for phone records and DNA. How is this possible in a "patriarchal" society?

Why are men terrified to say anything construed as insulting or critical of women if we live in a society which oppresses and devalues females? It took the AFL four days to say anything about one of its employees after he punched a man and knocked him unconscious. If that same employee had gone on radio and bagged women's football he would have been sacked an hour later and forced to give an apology for his blasphemous utterance. So patriarchal here in Oz.

 

[demondavey]

Seriously?

Yeah, no good...

 

[Mercy Seat]

Some of our most feted world leaders have had affairs, JFK and Clinton for example held the highest office in the world, Bob Hawke is one of Australia's favourite PMs. There would be hundreds more we dont know about. NOBODY give a stuff about them. What goes on behind the bedroom door is your own business, not your employer. The AFL are a bloody joke. I would be finding the best workplace lawyer around if I were the 2 guys today.

The issue is it became public. And it reflected extremely poorly on the organization as a result.

All those affairs you mentioned were exposed later or once they were out of office. Except for Clinton, and you know what happened there? Impeachment proceedings.... no difference here really.

 

[Grongey]

Motivated to see genuine equality and for people to recognise inequality. What a terrible person I am.

Jerking yourself off to MRA sites full of made up stats and information about how hard done by men are might be better for you.

Reported to Mods

 

[gaelictiogar]

Who decides what is moral and what isn't? Gill the Dill?

The AFL and everybody else should keep their nose out of relationships between consenting sound of mind adults.

I view it as similar to same sex relationships, why do some people get so judgmental and fascinated in regards to what people do with other peoples and their own bodies.

Why? Possibly its because marriage has been the fundamental contractual building block of our society for millenia and somehow somewhere inside our collective heads we hear little voices telling us that deconstructing the bases on which it was built might just might come with unpredicted or unforeseen costs

Before people jump on me its OK I know....rights and privacy and consenting adults and who are you etc etc etc. I know all that so don't bother. I'm simply answering the question.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Afl and gil could not give a flying fork what happens until you create a headline. It's about the coin which comes from sponsorship which comes from companies.

All this stuff happened last September. Guarantee Simon was bragging to the lads, apparently everyone at the office knew.

Once someone got jilted it slithered it's way to the Herald Sun and here we are.

Should the afl ignore it? Do you expect differently?

Exactly this. The two guys are friends of Gil so would have known about it at the time. It's all about public relations and appearing to be moral. If we use this as our moral compass then it seems that it's ok to do bad stuff as long as you don't get found out.

 

[Whit3y]

the afl still have someway to go before it reaches "fairfax" level of moral compass

fairfax on a daily basis drown the reader in what they think is morally right

 

[Rusty Brookes]

The issue here isn't that they had affairs. It's that they had affairs with junior staff. It makes worklife incredibly difficult for all involved. What if one of the women is deserving of a promotion? Do they not get it because management doesn't want to be seen to be playing favourites? If they do get a promotion, do others think the only way to get to the top is to sleep their way up the ladder?

University lecturers are not meant to have relationships with their students for exactly the same reasons. Now, the media reaction has been ludicrously over the top but I'm not sure how that's the AFL's fault.

For the record, the same would apply if it was a female manager and male junior staff. Or female-female. Or male-male.

 

[Kwality]

No, they should just shut up and make their money. Should also pay income tax like every other business.

Can your mob survive on 30% less from the AFL. You do need an AFL guarantee these days.

 

[Kwality]

See Gil is touting jobs for these guys:
AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan yesterday said he was confident the two executives who quit over affairs would find jobs in football.

“I know the industry is forgiving. They are high-quality people and unbelievable executives,” he said on SEN.

Later he told 3AW: “They’re both high-performing executives who have worked through the ranks because they have delivered.”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/c3fb9426463b8e1673a553201e3ec467

Gils been at the AFL long enough to some idea what is going in the place & now he is actively raising the industry should be embracing these guys - not a good look Gil, judgement?

 

[Altum Volantes]

It's the world we live in today.

The AFL, for over 100 years has been a high profile organisation run by straight white males, with a product that they market to straight white males.

They also have strong links to alcohol and gambling advertising. Basically the forces of evil.

As an business they need to do at least twice as much as most companies to make sure they are ticking all the PC boxes of 2017 and don't appear to be a big bunch of straight white males who can't relate outside their own kind.

Fail in doing so, and the collective product is blasted as sexist/racist/homophobic etc etc etc..

 

[deltablues]

Simkiss, one of the AFL employees who lost his job in this Puritan pogrom, was quoted as having apologised, admitting that "our industry is on a journey of change, and I can't let my actions halt or damage that journey".

Except, of course, when it involves money - e.g. pandering to the gambling industry.

 

[Farm Boy]

Motivated to see genuine equality and for people to recognise inequality. What a terrible person I am.

Jerking yourself off to MRA sites full of made up stats and information about how hard done by men are might be better for you.

I don't think you need to make light of the plight of men to get your point across. A lot of men are hard done by, and it is tragic. But I don't see why you need to make fun of men and MRA sites - in order to pursue a personal attack on another member. Sad.

 

[gaelictiogar]

Simkiss, one of the AFL employees who lost his job in this Puritan pogrom, was quoted as having apologised, admitting that "our industry is on a journey of change, and I can't let my actions halt or damage that journey".

Except, of course, when it involves money - e.g. pandering to the gambling industry.

That comment from Simkiss reads like a translation from the Maoiist cultral revolution......little old me cannot halt the journey to de legitimising straight male sexual behaviour. I deserve to be neutered for the greater good.

 

[Kwality]

That comment from Simkiss reads like a translation from the Maoiist cultral revolution......little old me cannot halt the journey to de legitimising straight male sexual behaviour. I deserve to be neutered for the greater good.

 

[Cold Sober]

What's the latest ? any women lost their jobs, no, surprise surprise

 

[domus]

The issue here isn't that they had affairs. It's that they had affairs with junior staff. It makes worklife incredibly difficult for all involved. What if one of the women is deserving of a promotion? Do they not get it because management doesn't want to be seen to be playing favourites? If they do get a promotion, do others think the only way to get to the top is to sleep their way up the ladder?

University lecturers are not meant to have relationships with their students for exactly the same reasons. Now, the media reaction has been ludicrously over the top but I'm not sure how that's the AFL's fault.

For the record, the same would apply if it was a female manager and male junior staff. Or female-female. Or male-male.

Students can be in their teens. These women were late 20's/early 30's. That's a chasm in maturity and awareness. Such behavior would lead to the issues that you mentioned but I fail to see how the women escape any responsibility when they willingly entered the relationship for their own personal benefit -be it promotion, special favours or simply living the high life with powerful men. They also did it behind the back of their own partners. To suggest women have not targeted powerful men as a means to climbing the ladder or gaining influence is absurd. The same reaction occurs when a young footballer is found sleeping with a young woman. All of the outrage and condemnations is directed at the young man and males in general even though the sports and entertainment industries are rife with female groupies who openly objectify and target wealthy or famous young men. It is a murky, complex situation but our society always views it as men bad, women innocent no matter the circumstances and that is wrong.

 

[nobbyiscool]

Classic non response

Fair call, aside from the rampant hypocrisy - I deleted it (before seeing your reply) cos the more I thought about it, I agreed it was a poor response.

I don't think you need to make light of the plight of men to get your point across. A lot of men are hard done by, and it is tragic. But I don't see why you need to make fun of men and MRA sites - in order to pursue a personal attack on another member. Sad.

"The plight of men" is a ridiculous line. Yes, some men experience mental health issues, some men - but statistically very, very few - have false accusations made against them (and there's no suggestion that this is what happened here.) But I would suggest that a lot of the problems faced by many men are down to the notion of toxic masculinity and the individuals inability to understand the role of men in a society where women should be treated as equals.

Something that feminists say that perhaps some people in this thread should think about.

"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."

The mere tacit suggestion that "the plight of men" is even a patch on what women have experienced for centuries is beyond ridiculous.

The answer to the notion of "toxic masculinity" certainly isn't to maintain women as an underclass because some men can't handle the prospect of women being seen as equal to them - it's to further redefine cultural gender roles which is what the aim of the feminist movement has been all along.