Revisionism The extent of the Holocaust

[William Wonka]

View attachment 395788

Established1870
I tagged you here because
A. I'm sick of trying to convince these tinfoil hat wearing, flat earth society, conspiracy flogs that the Holocaust actually happened- please take over for me.
And.
B. I reckon the chick in the above post is just your type.

 

[cannot]

Established1870
I tagged you here because
A. I'm sick of trying to convince these tinfoil hat wearing, flat earth society, conspiracy flogs that the Holocaust actually happened- please take over for me.
And.
B. I reckon the chick in the above post is just your type.

its an emotional subject

 

[William Wonka]

its an emotional subject

Between 50 and 100 million people were killed in WW2, plenty were Jewish.
The only people who try and 'disprove' anything were/are ******* Nazis.

 

[cannot]

Between 50 and 100 million people were killed in WW2, plenty were Jewish.
The only people who try and 'disprove' anything were/are ******* Nazis.

people were killed after ww2 as well

i dont think asking questions about history makes people "flogs", "nazis" or "racist"

 

[Exe Gesis]

people were killed after ww2 as well

i dont think asking questions about history makes people "flogs", "nazis" or "racist"

Other Losses is a 1989 book by Canadian writer James Bacque, in which Bacque alleges that U.S. General Dwight Eisenhower intentionally caused the deaths by starvation or exposure of around a million German prisoners of war held in Western internment camps briefly after the Second World War. Other Losses charges that hundreds of thousands of German prisoners that had fled the Eastern front were designated as "Disarmed Enemy Forces" in order to avoid recognition under the third Geneva Convention, for the purpose of carrying out their deaths through disease or slow starvation. Other Losses cites documents in the U.S. National Archives and interviews with people who stated they witnessed the events. The book claims that there was a "method of genocide" in the banning of Red Cross inspectors, the returning of food aid, the policy regarding shelter building, and soldier ration policy.

Stephen Ambrose, a historian Eisenhower had enlisted in his efforts to preserve his legacy and counteract criticisms of his presidency, and seven other historians examined the book soon after its publication, and came to the conclusion that it was inaccurate and the product of conspiracy theory. Other historians, including the former senior historian of the United States Army Center of Military History, Colonel Ernest F. Fisher, who was involved in the 1945 investigations into the allegations of misconduct by U.S. troops in Germany and who wrote the book's foreword, argues that the claims are accurate.

 

[William Wonka]

people were killed after ww2 as well

i dont think asking questions about history makes people "flogs", "nazis" or "racist"

Studying history is commendable, drawing attention to atrocities (whoever committed them) is admirable.
Denying they occured is offensive.
The only 'Historians' doing this are Nazi apologists, plain and simple.


On your other point.
The German people suffered HARD in the later stages of the war as well as after it.
The Soviet troops had seen their country destroyed and were out for revenge.
The Yanks... well who knows.

War is a ******* campaigner.

 

[Established1870]

War is a ******* campaigner.

Well my kin got their original homeland so there was a little shimmer of goodness from it.

 

[William Wonka]

Well my kin got their original homeland so there was a little shimmer of goodness from it.

Should have gone for the Port Davey option.

Less historical flavor perhaps but much friendlier neighbors/better scenery.

Anyway how about the hotty a few posts up!
Bit young for you yeah?

 

[cannot]

Well my kin got their original homeland so there was a little shimmer of goodness from it.

the nation state of Israel?

 

[Procrastinator35]

So there isn't a conspiracy GG.exe hasnt come across that he doesn't readily swallow whole. And while this board is your safe space to prattle on about this and that, there are line of decency across which you cannot pass. Racism will not be tolerated on this site.

Our friend POGMA is having a little lie down right now. Consider it my shot across the bow. His post about Jews and Zionists was the tip of the odious iceberg that most holocaust deniers like Irvine cling to under the guise of "historical accuracy". It's the haven of white supremacists and other such *******tery. Be careful who you consider a fellow traveller.

There are hundreds of thousands of pieces of first person testimony about the holocaust. s**t, many survivors lived right here in Australia. If you can look past that to David Irving's particularly odious work, a serious of YouTube rubbish or a guy on the Internet who spoke to a "Jesuit" then you need a brick to the head.

So let's be clear. This turns into an anti-Semitic rant, you're gone. And you won't be coming back with an alias. No second chances.

Werewolf
Chief
Doss
Starburns_ Ant_

I don't think that anyone is denying that millions of people were killed & targeted during the second world war....What is being argued here is the extent of the holocaust so far as Semitic numbers in particular are concerned....The re-reading of history in the attempts by some to interpret the entire Second world war as simply one characterized by anti-semitism are overtly overly-simplistic in the extreme....And utterly dishonest in many contexts......Most deaths occurred on the Russian front & many in Russian gulags.....And what the Japanese had to do with anti-Semitism is anyone's guess....And yes, then there's simply starvation & diseases such as typhoid & smallpox, which were running rampant....Also, many disabled & intellectually deficient people were also targeted.....It was hardly Jews alone.

What is certainly true is that Hitler used anti-Semitism as a means to rise to power & project the devil onto a particular group of people....Mostly based upon the extent of ownership of the German GDP that was held in the hands of Semitic bankers.....Whom he also blamed for the fall & bankrupting of the Weimer Republic & the begginings of Bismark, the first Reich & the origins for WW1.....Was he right?....That's an interesting question in itself for mine.....Then there's the financing of the German war machine itself via U.S bankers on behalf of their Zionist owners....Were Jews really financing the building of a war-machine in order to kill fellow Jews?....This question alone deserves far more illumination & focus, now more than ever.

GG.exe has done some excellent research here & it's most certainly a topic that is worthy of discussion, without the need for falling into the 'white-supremacist' loony-bin fanatics realms.....The fact it has attracted such gravity & attention is rather eye-opening, to say the least.

Most of us conspiracy theory posters are acutely aware of the historical relationships that exist between the U.S govt, Neo-Con Zionists & the NAZI party.....The bringing of so many ex-Nazi intellectuals & intelligentsia into U.S intel services & NATO ranks, post World War 2, is well-known....The amount of neo-con twin-citizenship Zionists that populated both Bush administrations, is also well-known & established fact....And anyone who denies the massive influence exerted upon U.S politics by the Israeli APAC is either deluded or ignorant of world geo-politics in the extreme....Then there's also 9/11 & all that has transpired in the attempts to destroy the developed democratic Arab world ever since.

This is hardly all coincidental.

The conclusion one can certainly draw from all this, is that one is forbidden from throwing any focus upon Israel because of the guilt complex that hangs around the West's collective psychic neck....Whether factual or fabricated.....Is Israel the principal player behind all that has transpired in the world from 9/11 onward?....To my mind, the evidence is irrefutable.

If that is so, then we need to throw & cast a light on why the west has become so beguiled into a mind-set of never questioning Israel because of this so-called 'Imposed' socially collective taboo that is anti-Semitism.....It has become a defensive shield for Israel & the Likud party in particular to hide behind.....Much as the Declaration is used as the BS front for U.S 'exceptionalism' in it's hypocritical detruction of that creed via it's foreign policies.....Some of us can see both for the cons that they have become, for tyrants & mass-murderers to hide behind.

One can no longer remain ignorant as to whose hands most of the Western worlds banks & media are in.....This has been a concerted & planned consolidation.

And because of these facts, this line of thought is worth delving into much, much further.

 

[Messenger]

Procrastinator35 i trust you can differentiate between the political objectives of the State of Israel and portraying behaviour as an inherent characteristic of Jews.

 

[Boston tiger]

I don't think that anyone is denying that millions of people were killed & targeted during the second world war....What is being argued here is the extent of the holocaust so far as Semitic numbers in particular are concerned....The re-reading of history in the attempts by some to interpret the entire Second world war as simply one characterized by anti-semitism are overtly overly-simplistic in the extreme....And utterly dishonest in many contexts......Most deaths occurred on the Russian front & many in Russian gulags.....And what the Japanese had to do with anti-Semitism is anyone's guess....And yes, then there's simply starvation & diseases such as typhoid & smallpox, which were running rampant....Also, many disabled & intellectually deficient people were also targeted.....It was hardly Jews alone.

What is certainly true is that Hitler used anti-Semitism as a means to rise to power & project the devil onto a particular group of people....Mostly based upon the extent of ownership of the German GDP that was held in the hands of Semitic bankers.....Whom he also blamed for the fall & bankrupting of the Weimer Republic & the begginings of Bismark, the first Reich & the origins for WW1.....Was he right?....That's an interesting question in itself for mine.....Then there's the financing of the German war machine itself via U.S bankers on behalf of their Zionist owners....Were Jews really financing the building of a war-machine in order to kill fellow Jews?....This question alone deserves far more illumination & focus, now more than ever.

GG.exe has done some excellent research here & it's most certainly a topic that is worthy of discussion, without the need for falling into the 'white-supremacist' loony-bin fanatics realms.....The fact it has attracted such gravity & attention is rather eye-opening, to say the least.

Most of us conspiracy theory posters are acutely aware of the historical relationships that exist between the U.S govt, Neo-Con Zionists & the NAZI party.....The bringing of so many ex-Nazi intellectuals & intelligentsia into U.S intel services & NATO ranks, post World War 2, is well-known....The amount of neo-con twin-citizenship Zionists that populated both Bush administrations, is also well-known & established fact....And anyone who denies the massive influence exerted upon U.S politics by the Israeli APAC is either deluded or ignorant of world geo-politics in the extreme....Then there's also 9/11 & all that has transpired in the attempts to destroy the developed democratic Arab world ever since.

This is hardly all coincidental.

The conclusion one can certainly draw from all this, is that one is forbidden from throwing any focus upon Israel because of the guilt complex that hangs around the West's collective psychic neck....Whether factual or fabricated.....Is Israel the principal player behind all that has transpired in the world from 9/11 onward?....To my mind, the evidence is irrefutable.

If that is so, then we need to throw & cast a light on why the west has become so beguiled into a mind-set of never questioning Israel because of this so-called 'Imposed' socially collective taboo that is anti-Semitism.....It has become a defensive shield for Israel & the Likud party in particular to hide behind.....Much as the Declaration is used as the BS front for U.S 'exceptionalism' in it's hypocritical detruction of that creed via it's foreign policies.....Some of us can see both for the cons that they have become, for tyrants & mass-murderers to hide behind.

One can no longer remain ignorant as to whose hands most of the Western worlds banks & media are in.....This has been a concerted & planned consolidation.

And because of these facts, this line of thought is worth delving into much, much further.

He hasn't done any excellent research. He done the research that gives you a flat earth , 9/11 inside job, Jesuits ruling the earth ..type research.

 

[Exe Gesis]

He hasn't done any excellent research. He done the research that gives you a flat earth , 9/11 inside job, Jesuits ruling the earth ..type research.

Procrastinator35 is right. Everything I do and contribute is well above above-average. And don't kid yourself, you know it's true.

 

[Heisenberg_]

He hasn't done any excellent research. He done the research that gives you a flat earth , 9/11 inside job, Jesuits ruling the earth ..type research.

If he did excellent research he wouldn't have labelled David Irving as "respected" a quick google search shows that's not the case at all.

 

[Exe Gesis]

If he did excellent research he wouldn't have labelled David Irving as "respected" a quick google search shows that's not the case at all.

He's the pre eminent ww2 historian. Relying on a quick Google search shows you buy whatever you're told. People only get banned threatened silenced discredited and blacklisted because the ruling class are afraid of them, afraid of truth about themselves getting exposed, etc. Eg, pizza gate reporters and whistleblowers

 

[Procrastinator35]

Procrastinator35 i trust you can differentiate between the political objectives of the State of Israel and portraying behavior as an inherent characteristic of Jews.

Of course....We need to be careful in delineating our concepts here for sure.....A political philosophical movement is not representative of a race of people.....The Zionist creed is one prefaced upon a history of right-wing extremist para-militarism, in it's avowed extermination of Arab people & the Palestinians in particular., in order to reclaim the promised land....The Terrorist gangs of the Irgun, Which has morphed into the present day Likud party (which has a moratorium on Israeli politics & rules with an iron-fist). Behaved in precisely the same manner as the German SS....Forcibly removing Palestinians from their homes & murdering them en-masse in cold blood.....This has been historical fact since 1946 & continues on unabated to this very day.

What needs to be asked is: Who exactly is financing this destruction of the Middle East & for what cause & reason.....And you won't hear this patently self-evident question posed in the MSM....And for good reason.....Because the heads of those multi-nat corporations are also invested in that self-same destruction of the Arab world.

The same sort of right-wing supremacist views & politics you have warned of & we all rightly abhor, are precisely true of what characterizes the actions & behaviors of those who subscribe to the Zionist creed in their actions against Muslims.

The time for excuses for this behavior has run out.....We all know why the U.N sits back & does nothing.....It's been bought out & sold off, much as the U.S congress has.

We have a perfect exemplar still sitting right in front of our faces, for the falsification of historical truth for what transpired on 9/11.....To my & GG's way of thinking; the exaggerations & attempts at portraying WW11 as the 'Jewish Holocaust' is a complete misnomer.....And I'm yet to see anyone prove otherwise.

 

[Boston tiger]

Why didn't those put on trial for the atrocities against the Jews just deny that it happened instead of using the defence .. I was following orders.

Seems strange to own up for something that didn't happen

 

[Procrastinator35]

Why didn't those put on trial for the atrocities against the Jews just deny that it happened instead of using the defence .. I was following orders.

Seems strange to own up for something that didn't happen

No one is denying that the murder of Jews, among others, took place.....That's not the gist of this thread.

 

[strung_out7]

Why didn't those put on trial for the atrocities against the Jews just deny that it happened instead of using the defence .. I was following orders.

Seems strange to own up for something that didn't happen

Some didn't get the chance to go to trial. Instead they were murdered by Americans, going against the geneva convention, without any punishment

 

[Boston tiger]

Some didn't get the chance to go to trial. Instead they were murdered by Americans, going against the geneva convention, without any punishment

Some

 

[Boston tiger]

No one is denying that the murder of Jews, among others, took place.....That's not the gist of this thread.

It's like any conspiracy thread 9/11 included .. when there is actually no evidence of a conspiracy then the conspiracy theories can all differ ..
no evidence of a conspiracy equals pick your agenda and out come.
9/11.. Jews,Bush, CIA, Government insurance claim, drones, missiles , painted military planes etc. everyone has their own vibe because there is no evidence of Jews Bush CIA insurance claim etc

Holocaust .. No gas chambers , gas chambers, a few million to a hundred thousand who just got sick etc . When your conspiracy is made up of rubbish means any thing goes.

Conspiracy theorists never agree on anything because there is never any solid evidence to prove their claims .. it all a vibe.

So the gist of this thread is just blowing in the wind until the next conspiracy poster says what he reckons about the Jews.

 

[William Wonka]

I don't think that anyone is denying that millions of people were killed & targeted during the second world war....What is being argued here is the extent of the holocaust so far as Semitic numbers in particular are concerned....The re-reading of history in the attempts by some to interpret the entire Second world war as simply one characterized by anti-semitism are overtly overly-simplistic in the extreme....And utterly dishonest in many contexts......Most deaths occurred on the Russian front & many in Russian gulags.....And what the Japanese had to do with anti-Semitism is anyone's guess....And yes, then there's simply starvation & diseases such as typhoid & smallpox, which were running rampant....Also, many disabled & intellectually deficient people were also targeted.....It was hardly Jews alone.

What is certainly true is that Hitler used anti-Semitism as a means to rise to power & project the devil onto a particular group of people....Mostly based upon the extent of ownership of the German GDP that was held in the hands of Semitic bankers.....Whom he also blamed for the fall & bankrupting of the Weimer Republic & the begginings of Bismark, the first Reich & the origins for WW1.....Was he right?....That's an interesting question in itself for mine.....Then there's the financing of the German war machine itself via U.S bankers on behalf of their Zionist owners....Were Jews really financing the building of a war-machine in order to kill fellow Jews?....This question alone deserves far more illumination & focus, now more than ever.

GG.exe has done some excellent research here & it's most certainly a topic that is worthy of discussion, without the need for falling into the 'white-supremacist' loony-bin fanatics realms.....The fact it has attracted such gravity & attention is rather eye-opening, to say the least.

Most of us conspiracy theory posters are acutely aware of the historical relationships that exist between the U.S govt, Neo-Con Zionists & the NAZI party.....The bringing of so many ex-Nazi intellectuals & intelligentsia into U.S intel services & NATO ranks, post World War 2, is well-known....The amount of neo-con twin-citizenship Zionists that populated both Bush administrations, is also well-known & established fact....And anyone who denies the massive influence exerted upon U.S politics by the Israeli APAC is either deluded or ignorant of world geo-politics in the extreme....Then there's also 9/11 & all that has transpired in the attempts to destroy the developed democratic Arab world ever since.

This is hardly all coincidental.

The conclusion one can certainly draw from all this, is that one is forbidden from throwing any focus upon Israel because of the guilt complex that hangs around the West's collective psychic neck....Whether factual or fabricated.....Is Israel the principal player behind all that has transpired in the world from 9/11 onward?....To my mind, the evidence is irrefutable.

If that is so, then we need to throw & cast a light on why the west has become so beguiled into a mind-set of never questioning Israel because of this so-called 'Imposed' socially collective taboo that is anti-Semitism.....It has become a defensive shield for Israel & the Likud party in particular to hide behind.....Much as the Declaration is used as the BS front for U.S 'exceptionalism' in it's hypocritical detruction of that creed via it's foreign policies.....Some of us can see both for the cons that they have become, for tyrants & mass-murderers to hide behind.

One can no longer remain ignorant as to whose hands most of the Western worlds banks & media are in.....This has been a concerted & planned consolidation.

And because of these facts, this line of thought is worth delving into much, much further.

Of course....We need to be careful in delineating our concepts here for sure.....A political philosophical movement is not representative of a race of people.....The Zionist creed is one prefaced upon a history of right-wing extremist para-militarism, in it's avowed extermination of Arab people & the Palestinians in particular., in order to reclaim the promised land....The Terrorist gangs of the Irgun, Which has morphed into the present day Likud party (which has a moratorium on Israeli politics & rules with an iron-fist). Behaved in precisely the same manner as the German SS....Forcibly removing Palestinians from their homes & murdering them en-masse in cold blood.....This has been historical fact since 1946 & continues on unabated to this very day.

What needs to be asked is: Who exactly is financing this destruction of the Middle East & for what cause & reason.....And you won't hear this patently self-evident question posed in the MSM....And for good reason.....Because the heads of those multi-nat corporations are also invested in that self-same destruction of the Arab world.

The same sort of right-wing supremacist views & politics you have warned of & we all rightly abhor, are precisely true of what characterizes the actions & behaviors of those who subscribe to the Zionist creed in their actions against Muslims.

The time for excuses for this behavior has run out.....We all know why the U.N sits back & does nothing.....It's been bought out & sold off, much as the U.S congress has.

We have a perfect exemplar still sitting right in front of our faces, for the falsification of historical truth for what transpired on 9/11.....To my & GG's way of thinking; the exaggerations & attempts at portraying WW11 as the 'Jewish Holocaust' is a complete misnomer.....And I'm yet to see anyone prove otherwise.

No one is denying that the murder of Jews, among others, took place.....That's not the gist of this thread.

I have zero issues with you comments on Zionism and the state of Israel.
Both are political movements and are open to any and all criticism (much well deserved imo)

However this has nothing to do with the suffering experienced by European Jews leading up to and during WW2.

Even if the numbers of dead are not exactly right it should not be dug into by conspiracy theorists as it's far better to mourn the death of some additional non existent victims than to ignore the deaths of real men, women and children.

As I've mentioned already in this thread hundreds of thousands of Jewish deaths were witnessed and recorded by Allied troops who were unable to help the liberated camp victims already so far gone with starvation, typhus and cholera. Even without any other evidence this is irrefutable proof of a horrendous war crime.

I also personally hate the term 'Jewish Holocaust' as it downplays the other 50-80 million non Jews killed in WW2 but there can be no denying that the Jews suffered as much as anyone.

 

[Messenger]

Some didn't get the chance to go to trial. Instead they were murdered by Americans, going against the geneva convention, without any punishment

Actually the Russians had a novel solution. The disarmed the camp guards and put them in the pens with the healthiest male prisoners, who miraculously found all sort of weapons. Situation was usually sorted out in a few hours.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I have zero issues with you comments on Zionism and the state of Israel.
Both are political movements and are open to any and all criticism (much well deserved imo)

However this has nothing to do with the suffering experienced by European Jews leading up to and during WW2.

Even if the numbers of dead are not exactly right it should not be dug into by conspiracy theorists as it's far better to mourn the death of some additional non existent victims than to ignore the deaths of real men, women and children.

As I've mentioned already in this thread hundreds of thousands of Jewish deaths were witnessed and recorded by Allied troops who were unable to help the liberated camp victims already so far gone with starvation, typhus and cholera. Even without any other evidence this is irrefutable proof of a horrendous war crime.

I also personally hate the term 'Jewish Holocaust' as it downplays the other 50-80 million non Jews killed in WW2 but there can be no denying that the Jews suffered as much as anyone.

I guess the crux of the issue lies, in to what extent the attempted hijacking of the central tenet of WW11, being shanghaied & re-named into "The Holacaust", is being used as a cover & defense for all kinds of atrocities perpetrated since, by the Right-wing militant Zionist movement against Palestinians & the secular Arab world in general.....There is little doubting that this entire 'Terrorist Narrative', drawn up & inaugurated by Netanyahu & Bush senior, in their attempts to foster an 'Israeli paranoid mind-set' onto the Western world in general (Surrounded by Arabs on all sides & at the mercy of them) has been all too successful.....Particularly with the focus upon Islamophobia & European immigration, resulting from these ethnic cleansing foreign policies....The ease with which this has been achieved, on the back of MSM propaganda support & 16 years of illegal & unconstitutional wars, is overwhelmingly apparent & shocking in the extreme at their general acceptance & lack of media & U.N protest at their inhumanity.

2 wrongs don't make a right....We are all too familiar with the history of the SS, the Igrun & the C.I.A, with their 'terrorist' tactics & activities.....It's time people woke-up to the fact that these 3 are now all one & the same entity.

The Likud party, in conjunction with the multi-nat Zionist neo-cons (With the C.I.A as their war-Dogs), are nothing but extremist, right-wing, corporate fascists & Capitalist supremacists....And it's high time people woke up to this fact.

As Assange noted:....When the Snowden story broke, all the essential info was immediately sourced to 2 destinations: The N.Y Times & Mossad in Tel Aviv.....I'll leave it to everyone here to draw their own conclusions from that fact.

 

[Sir James Sober]

Actually the Russians had a novel solution. The disarmed the camp guards and put them in the pens with the healthiest male prisoners, who miraculously found all sort of weapons. Situation was usually sorted out in a few hours.

I was under the impression that when the Soviets reached the camps that they had all been abandoned as the prisoners had been forced to march west.

What you say does ring a bell though.