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Strategy Is 2018 the time to ditch the defensive game plan?

Should the defensive game plan be scrapped going into 2018?

  • Yes, it is making us look bad

    Votes: 5 9.8%

  • My decision depends on the outcome of the off-season

    Votes: 22 43.1%

  • Unsure

    Votes: 3 5.9%

  • No, we're doing well enough

    Votes: 21 41.2%
  • Total voters
    51

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A lot of it imo is just our current limitations with small/young bodies and lacking stamina. Look at our earlier/better performances in the year and even though we still had a defensive mindset, we were able to switch successfully and drive fairly quickly from half back and get some exciting bits of play. But that's with a fully healthy team and less gassed players.

It will be a progression, and we'll need some patience. I know, something a lot of Carlton fans aren't good at.
 
Only have to watch Willo come off cradling his shoulder after a bump, or Fisher doing his best impression of a pinball, to understand that half our team don't have the strength to sustain an aggressive gameplan.

Another preseason or two, with us adding layers of attacking strategy throughout that time.
 

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We were exposed badly by a very experienced side. Geelong weren't even in good form, so I hate to think of the margin if they'd brought their A-game. A few points:

  • Our kickouts are terrible. Rarely did the ball make it past the centre, particularly in the first quarter when the ball just flowed straight back in. kicking in to Charlie Curnow seemed to be the most common strategy.
  • Bombing it to a contested pack of players is really dumb. For one thing they outmarked us. But we have no crummers, so it either goes over the boundary line or they rebound.
  • We didn't defend well at all. And I'm not having a go at our back six. We seemed content to cover the zone but the problem is Geelong don't turn it over all that often and take a lot of uncontested marks. Plan B needs to be to go man on man but we don't have runners that are fit enough to cover the spread.
So absolutely we need to score more. And having players drift past for a handball and play through the corridor certainly would liven things up.

But to play an attacking brand of footy we need gut-runners to be able to run-and-carry and play one-on-one when the footy is the opposition's. With Ed Curnow out, Sam Kerridge casts a lonely shadow in that regard.

From the game's stats, Caleb's endurance is elite for a big man. So instead of turning him into Alex Rance, why not use him creatively up the field?
 
I remember watching us play St Kilda on a Monday night circa 2011-2012. It was glorious. Bruce salivated about how great we were to watch. "They're off to the races," he said about us as we belted the ball one length of the field to the other.

In the end, it was exhilarating, but got us nowhere. I think we'll add speed and movement eventually. But overall, a premiership is excitement enough for me. And if defence is what does it, then I'll be plenty excited.
 
Azul said:
We were exposed badly by a very experienced side. Geelong weren't even in good form, so I hate to think of the margin if they'd brought their A-game. A few points:

  • Our kickouts are terrible. Rarely did the ball make it past the centre, particularly in the first quarter when the ball just flowed straight back in. kicking in to Charlie Curnow seemed to be the most common strategy.
  • Bombing it to a contested pack of players is really dumb. For one thing they outmarked us. But we have no crummers, so it either goes over the boundary line or they rebound.
  • We didn't defend well at all. And I'm not having a go at our back six. We seemed content to cover the zone but the problem is Geelong don't turn it over all that often and take a lot of uncontested marks. Plan B needs to be to go man on man but we don't have runners that are fit enough to cover the spread.
So absolutely we need to score more. And having players drift past for a handball and play through the corridor certainly would liven things up.

But to play an attacking brand of footy we need gut-runners to be able to run-and-carry and play one-on-one when the footy is the opposition's. With Ed Curnow out, Sam Kerridge casts a lonely shadow in that regard.

From the game's stats, Caleb's endurance is elite for a big man. So instead of turning him into Alex Rance, why not use him creatively up the field?
Click to expand...
The last 2 weeks teams have been pressing up on us to prevent our uncontested game. Often at kick outs they had 2 on the mark to prevent the play on with a shepherd that was working early in the season. Bolts will need to come up with some extra tactics as you pointed out we weren't getting the ball out of defense.

Marchbank started on the wing at a number of center bounces. Didn't seem to work. Not sure it is that easy to turn a natural defender into a link up player. Would prefer to see Plowman trialed in that role.
 
How do you attack when your playing list can't keep the ball under control for more than 3 possessions outside the defensive arc?
How do you run the ball when even your Captain can't handball - ever? Did you see him BUTCHER his team mates over and over again last week - just like he has done all year?

So many false idols being worshipped by supporters of this Club.
 
Great thought provoking thread NavyBlueTJ35

I believe the game plan is sound and perfect for the list of players we currently have, at this point of our rebuild. There is no doubt that attacking layers will be added over time, which will be introduced next year.

We, along with sides such as the Lions, GC & North are playing a large number of kids, with consistency being difficult to achieve as a group. Young players in established sides would also find it easier in comparison, due to known factors, so pointless in detailing.

Yes, our game plan is currently more stagnate than the sides mentioned above, but we also concede less points. In fact the Lions and GC only average 2 more goals a game than we do, but concede 5 & 2 goals more respectively. Sides like the Swans have built success on the back of uncompromising defensive structures and disciplines. Roos, incorporated this mantra at the Demons, who are now starting to show the benefits.

With continued, sound recruiting, added games to our youth, our game plan will evolve, along with the development of the team as a whole. While the progression will be constantly evaluated, sustained success is built on uncompromising belief and total commitment by the whole football department.

More than one prominent coach, has stated, that you don't necessarily need the best game plan to be successful, but you do need 100% buy in
 
Azul said:
We were exposed badly by a very experienced side. Geelong weren't even in good form, so I hate to think of the margin if they'd brought their A-game. A few points:

  • Our kickouts are terrible. Rarely did the ball make it past the centre, particularly in the first quarter when the ball just flowed straight back in. kicking in to Charlie Curnow seemed to be the most common strategy.
  • Bombing it to a contested pack of players is really dumb. For one thing they outmarked us. But we have no crummers, so it either goes over the boundary line or they rebound.
  • We didn't defend well at all. And I'm not having a go at our back six. We seemed content to cover the zone but the problem is Geelong don't turn it over all that often and take a lot of uncontested marks. Plan B needs to be to go man on man but we don't have runners that are fit enough to cover the spread.
So absolutely we need to score more. And having players drift past for a handball and play through the corridor certainly would liven things up.

But to play an attacking brand of footy we need gut-runners to be able to run-and-carry and play one-on-one when the footy is the opposition's. With Ed Curnow out, Sam Kerridge casts a lonely shadow in that regard.

From the game's stats, Caleb's endurance is elite for a big man. So instead of turning him into Alex Rance, why not use him creatively up the field?
Click to expand...
the worse we are going the shorter our kickouts - this ring-a-ring-a-rosy bullshit in the back pocket is paganistic.......
 
tarczonandjane said:
I remember watching us play St Kilda on a Monday night circa 2011-2012. It was glorious. Bruce salivated about how great we were to watch. "They're off to the races," he said about us as we belted the ball one length of the field to the other.

In the end, it was exhilarating, but got us nowhere. I think we'll add speed and movement eventually. But overall, a premiership is excitement enough for me. And if defence is what does it, then I'll be plenty excited.
Click to expand...
ratts game-plan was great - if you were hawthorn
 

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Sector 7G said:
The last 2 weeks teams have been pressing up on us to prevent our uncontested game. Often at kick outs they had 2 on the mark to prevent the play on with a shepherd that was working early in the season. Bolts will need to come up with some extra tactics as you pointed out we weren't getting the ball out of defense.

Marchbank started on the wing at a number of center bounces. Didn't seem to work. Not sure it is that easy to turn a natural defender into a link up player. Would prefer to see Plowman trialed in that role.
Click to expand...

How many times was a loos player center of the goal square 30-35 meters out IGNORED by the idjot Carlton player responsible for kick ins - who instead kicked to disadvantage on a wing to a team mate double ganged and with opposition stacked behind the ball?

It was RANK nonsense over and over again - because FRANKLY our players for good reason don't trust their skills to execute a regulation 30 meter kick to advantage.

There is an old saying which I believe to be true and that is the best form of defense is attack- but you need blokes who can kick/pass and run to attack - otherwise, PARK THE BUS and invite the opposition in for a PICNIC.
 

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No. The defensive game plan is required to win footy games. We're working on the midfield and forward line to take advantage of an outstanding defensive reset in the past two seasons concerning holding teams to losing scores. We've done this on many occasions over the last two seasons. Clearly we need to improve in the midfield but the reset will not be completed until we have a forward line capable of kicking a winning score. It's a work in progress. Although it may not appear as improved it's important to note that our four best goal scorers play forward. Casboult 28, Wright 26, Silvagni 16 and Curnow 15. I'm sure there is room for marginal improvement in the likes of Casboult and Wright. If Silvagni and Curnow can push towards 30 goals next season and Big H can come to in and and do what the Silvagni and Curnow have done this year then I think it's realistic to target 10 wins next season. Exciting times are close.
 
TheRedPill said:
I think you have completely missed the point. If Bolton had inherited a list capable of playing attacking footy, fair enough. But we have about 3 midfielders, and many of our young players are still far from reaching their peak.

Top sides build from defense first, because it is a team-wide commitment and driven largely by attitude. He is instilling accountability and resilience in the playing group first.

To be honest, I find it sadly hilarious the amount of flak that Bolton, SOS & the Club are currently copping. What did people think they meant when they talked about the 'journey' of building a list from scratch? Do you even know who was on our list at the end of 2015?

We are attempting the near impossible and the Club has done an amazing job at clearing out deadwood and bringing in as much young talent as possible. The fact is that it takes considerable time and patience to do so - you need to recruit well, develop well and coach well. We are actually firing on all cylinders in those areas, more so than anyone could gave reasonably expected in less than 2 years. One of the biggest factors in player development and success is time - experience, fitness, strength, team cohesion, etc. It simply does not happen overnight, but it should be clear to all and sundry that we are on the right track.

Again, like I said, it takes patience. It is a shame that whilst supporters decry the 'Old Carlton', we have the perfect foundation for the 'New Carlton' at the helm of the club and many are too ignorant to comprehend, acknowledge and appreciate it. It shows a great misunderstanding of how the modern AFL works. Bolts, SOS and co. deserve far better.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I'm enjoying the energy Bolton has brought. He and his crew have definitely changed a lot of the club for the better.
As for SOS, I see him as arguably the best list manager for the past 2 years. Smart deals, standing his ground and prioritizing needs.
Recruitment isn't so much the issue, but more-so the development.

Looking at Brisbane's draftees and they immediately look as if they are ahead of ours based on their first few games (Witherden, Berry and Cox). And I'm comparing both groups based on their first few games (not with our draftees recent games).

Also, each and every year, the game is constantly changing and not just from a business perspective. There are many things that have changed over the past 10 or so years but here are a few of the most noticeable ones.
- Defenders are becoming more prominent than previously.
- The goal tallies are not as big as they used to be.
- Things like the classic torp have become a rarity.
- Tackling looks to cause more physical damage and so on.

All this can come from a range of factors including modern day coaching and the ever-changing physical capabilities of future talent. But if changes like this can take place, then I see any other sort of change taking place as well. That includes the inability to move onto something completely new. Personally I see a possibility in teams nowadays finding it harder to change the way they go about things. I see a possibility in Carlton stagnating without gradually taking risks.
I just can't help but fear that this group will not transition as well as it should when the time comes and question whether it would work better if we were back in the early 2000's.
 
thylacine60 said:
the worse we are going the shorter our kickouts - this ring-a-ring-a-rosy bullshit in the back pocket is paganistic.......
Click to expand...
The kick out to the pocket is a concession of defeat, as is the play on & then kick it long to a contest. You know when this is happening that the work rate is low.
 

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Strategy Is 2018 the time to ditch the defensive game plan?

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