IC17 2017 AFL International Cup

[NoobPie]

Was involved in London, Europe and Africa. Recently given money for South America.




One of the biggest sentiments that is holding Australian Football back.
The game is acknowledged to a ..... New South Welshman and spread quickly across all of the neighbouring colonies.
Time for Victorians to let the strings go.
Seriously do you hear poms saying the world is playing English Rules Football.



AFL officers are concerned with what can be done with given resources not what should be allocated.
Representives of O/S leagues could advise on local conditions which are very much under-rated by most.

.


Yes, Australian Football is growing in all directions and that sounds fabulous but it is a tragedy if we cannot take things to the next level.
For that to happen the AFL has to work WITH people.

Of course there is a south Aussie CEO and the second consecutive wa chair...

 

[RedV3x]

They are not interested in dealing with anyone anywhere as if they are some sort of equal partner.

We all know the AFL is not "interested" in a world body. So there is no need to keep repeating it.
So what's the reality. what's possible and probable ?
Most organisations have held back fearing "repercussions".
A lot of organisations involved in "organic" football are now realizing there are no repercussions because there is nothing to lose.
Discussions already take place as to the running of international events and it would be a simple step to form a world body.
It does cost money to run a world body but currently volunteers are doing the bulk of what is needed.
The major benefit of a world body is in that it could leverage major tournaments.
The International Cup is a multi-million dollar event and any city would love to have it.
Currently, the only reason Melbourne has the I.C. is because the players desire to be close to the MCG
however most teams have come to the realization that only two teams play on the MCG.
As well, most players see the current obsession with curtain-raisers as being counter-productive.
The general consensus is last year's women's grand final at Punt Road was far superior
and people are looking at other options.
Who do you think those people are - not the AFL.

 

[Gigantor]

We all know the AFL is not "interested" in a world body. So there is no need to keep repeating it.
So what's the reality. what's possible and probable ?
Most organisations have held back fearing "repercussions".
A lot of organisations involved in "organic" football are now realizing there are no repercussions because there is nothing to lose.
Discussions already take place as to the running of international events and it would be a simple step to form a world body.
It does cost money to run a world body but currently volunteers are doing the bulk of what is needed.
The major benefit of a world body is in that it could leverage major tournaments.
The International Cup is a multi-million dollar event and any city would love to have it.
Currently, the only reason Melbourne has the I.C. is because the players desire to be close to the MCG
however most teams have come to the realization that only two teams play on the MCG.
As well, most players see the current obsession with curtain-raisers as being counter-productive.
The general consensus is last year's women's grand final at Punt Road was far superior
and people are looking at other options.
Who do you think those people are - not the AFL.

I understand that, but what happened to the one attempt already made to form a world body? How was the AFL able to knock it on its head?

Also:

1. The IC originally was established without AFL involvement. The AFL has only been involved in the last two. Would international teams really want to go back to no AFL involvement?

2. AS you said, international players want to be near (or even on) the Mecca for footy. That won't change for a very long time, if ever. (by the way, in one of the recent ICs, games were played outside of Victoria)

3. The AFL provides some funding to AFL Europe, and perhaps to a few other nations, it's not much, but I'd say it's enough to keep everyone on a short AFL leash.

The only threat to any of the above is if one day some insane multi-billionaire decides to reinvent the game overseas and is prepared to burn hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[RedV3x]

I understand that, but what happened to the one attempt already made to form a world body? How was the AFL able to knock it on its head?

There weren't 50 odd countries regularly playing Australian Football then.

The IC originally was established without AFL involvement. The AFL has only been involved in the last two. Would international teams really want to go back to no AFL involvement?.

Tell me - what's the difference ?

AS you said, international players want to be near (or even on) the Mecca for footy.

Well that IS changing, at least it's being modified in where the games are being played.

The AFL provides some funding to AFL Europe, and perhaps to a few other nations, it's not much, but I'd say it's enough to keep everyone on a short AFL leash.

Yes, up to now. But other international events are showing up the I.C.
One way or another 2020 IC will be different.

The only threat to any of the above is if one day....

If all the countries work together and form an organisation that can further the interests of Australian Football.
It's the advancement of Australian Football Vs the advancement of AFL.

 

[jatz14]

That random bloke was Brian Clarke, who now has a much lower profile, and originally set up the touring Convicts team which still exists I think.

If u guys want an example from another sport - Try this - In the early 1900`s the game of Soccer Football had spread worldwide courtesy of many factors and was semi governed by the Football Association, commonly known as the F.A, which was England, Scotland, Wales
They were not that interested in the overseas/offshore game but on the Continent and being offshore, the French and others were and proposed the FIFA set up.
A huge amount of politics and hard bargaining occurred and finally the Poms saw the light but did not relinquish control of the Laws of the game etc etc.
Some of this familiar in 2017, however totally agree Victorians will never relinquish control of the game they created so a compromise will have to be reached eventually somehow somewhere. Perhaps AFL Europe, AFL Asia and AFL America and others could combine in Annual meetings in conjunction with the AFL to arrange all overseas matters pertaining to the Code- Just a thought - All comments welcome.

The organic overseas growth model suits the AFL at present, and the game will continue to expand despite all of the difficulties, which in itself is a bit of a miracle, considering the funding issues discussed for ever on here.
Have to say this forum has been reborn recently - Thanks to all concerned.

What were the relative sizes of the FA, and the non English football associations at the time?

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[Gigantor]

What were the relative sizes of the FA, and the non English football associations at the time?

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

By the time of the first world cup in 1930 (which the British countries did not attend), the game had already spread around the world and the bigger European countries had had semi-pro leagues for a while.

 

[Gigantor]

There weren't 50 odd countries regularly playing Australian Football then.

It's probably a bit of a stretch to claim 50 countries playing Australian Football right now. For the vast majority which do play, they live a hand to mouth existence from season to season.

Tell me - what's the difference ?

What's the difference between the AFL being involved and not being involved? Small but important diferrences, such as parades around the MCG; use of Etihad and the MCG for finals; assistance with organisation and umps and probably getting grounds; formal dinners; stories on the AFL website. The resources the AFL puts in are minimal, but the AFL's involvement certainly adds a bit more credibility to the event and assists with what little media attention it currently gets.

Yes, up to now. But other international events are showing up the I.C.
One way or another 2020 IC will be different.

It's a bit of an exaggeration to say other international events (if you mean aussie rules) are showing up the IC. For starters you get few events that involve countries from different continents (if at all), and much of what exists involves the shortened form of the game.

If all the countries work together and form an organisation that can further the interests of Australian Football.
It's the advancement of Australian Football Vs the advancement of AFL.

But I seriously doubt that is possible without the AFL's imprimatur.

 

[RedV3x]

parades around the MCG.

No noticeable effect.

use of Etihad and the MCG for finals

A complete travesty considering nobody is there to watch.

assistance with organisation and umps and probably getting grounds

Luckily you said "assistance" because that's all they do.

formal dinners.

Everybody concerned would much prefer the that money go towards underwriting costs.

stories on the AFL website.

There are no stories or links on the AFL website. It's buried on the community page.

The resources the AFL puts in are minimal, but the AFL's involvement certainly adds a bit more credibility to the event and assists with what little media attention it currently gets.

Again, no noticeable effect.
FYI There are over 50 countries regularly playing Australian Football plus some more add hoc..
FYI There are many Australian Football events overseas. Some are big enough to have an economic impact.

 

[RedV3x]

Some random bloke tried to establish a world body about 10 to 12 years ago. Somehow, I'm not sure how, the AFL put the kybosh on it.

The AFL gave money to areas where he was active. Pretty sure that's how AFL Europe got started.

 

[TWLS]

We all know the AFL is not "interested" in a world body. So there is no need to keep repeating it.
So what's the reality. what's possible and probable ?
Most organisations have held back fearing "repercussions".
A lot of organisations involved in "organic" football are now realizing there are no repercussions because there is nothing to lose.
Discussions already take place as to the running of international events and it would be a simple step to form a world body.
It does cost money to run a world body but currently volunteers are doing the bulk of what is needed.
The major benefit of a world body is in that it could leverage major tournaments.
The International Cup is a multi-million dollar event and any city would love to have it.
Currently, the only reason Melbourne has the I.C. is because the players desire to be close to the MCG
however most teams have come to the realization that only two teams play on the MCG.
As well, most players see the current obsession with curtain-raisers as being counter-productive.
The general consensus is last year's women's grand final at Punt Road was far superior
and people are looking at other options.
Who do you think those people are - not the AFL.

Well I think I have decoded this posting from Red - Sort of.
There may have been a few unofficial meetings between the IC17 countries over a few quiet drinks, which we mentioned before IC17.
The article by the very frustrated USAFL President in The Guardian would have raised a few eye brows, even though some did not agree with the sentiment, it may have been a catalyst of sorts.
These may be obvious comments to some but not to others - So stay with me - Insert the word "International" before organisations.
Repercussions from AFL House perhaps. What form would they have taken -
"Organic Football" is the term commonly used by the AFL to describe International Footy and its growth rate, which is at snail pace ATM, and the realization that there is nothing to lose because anything is better than very little.
The other comments that interested me were the organising of events such as tours which happened this year -Canada team to England and the revival of the British Cup??? -USA and GB.
The revelation that the International players now realise that the MCG is not the godly like place that the locals say, when only two teams get to experience it, and are not happy with the curtain raiser concept. That tells me a certain level of maturity is seeing through the smoke screen.
They would have raised these points with the AFL no doubt, and Red has indicated changes are a possibility for IC20??????/

 

[RedV3x]

There may have been a few unofficial meetings between the IC17 countries over a few quiet drinks, which we mentioned before IC17.

There were obviously talks to arrange the IC17.
There were 5 rounds X 13 games.
That's a lot of opportunity to mingle with officials, media, coaches, players, support, scouts, parents and bystanders.

The article by the very frustrated USAFL President in The Guardian would have raised a few eye brows, even though some did not agree with the sentiment, it may have been a catalyst of sorts.

Would anybody have noticed. It's a common sentiment, wanting more money. AFL must hear it all the time.
I actually agreed with the sentiment but thought it was an inaccurate article and skewed to the U.S. perspective.

The revelation that the International players now realise that the MCG is not the godly like place that the locals say, when only two teams get to experience it, and are not happy with the curtain raiser concept. That tells me a certain level of maturity is seeing through the smoke screen.

Some players etc. I don't know how deep the feeling goes, but the general talk was that the Punt Road women's grand final was a lot more intimate.
The crowd was compact, close to the action and vocal. You could say the crowd played a part cheering their team on.
For the most part, criticisms came from Australians. Australians where less than impressed with the conditions and respect shown
to our overseas visitors. Those that claim ownership of this game should show more respect.

 

[Gigantor]

They would have raised these points with the AFL no doubt, and Red has indicated changes are a possibility for IC20??????/

Red is saying that 20 or so countries will get together to organise their own international body to govern international aussie rules, and it is this body which will organise the IC, and they'll look to play it in other parts of the world.

He reckons its a great thing to lose access to the MCG and Etihad (and indeed pretty good suburban footy grounds), and to play the IC in some random place where you'll have to find a bit of space in some park and stick some plastic piping in the ground for your goals, find some ex pats who might be able to officiate games, and you're off and running.

If they decide to hold it in the US, hopefully the Pakistan and Indonesian teams can get into the country.

 

[RedV3x]

Red is saying that 20 or so countries will get together to organise their own international body to govern international aussie rules, and it is this body which will organise the IC, and they'll look to play it in other parts of the world..

Where exactly do I say all of this ?

He reckons its a great thing to lose access to the MCG and Etihad (and indeed pretty good suburban footy grounds), and to play the IC in some random place where you'll have to find a bit of space in some park and stick some plastic piping in the ground for your goals, find some ex pats who might be able to officiate games, and you're off and running.

Where exactly do I say all of this ?

If they decide to hold it in the US, hopefully the Pakistan and Indonesian teams can get into the country.

Where exactly do I say all of this ?

 

[CrowdedHouse]

One point raised about the IC Grand Finals was why not play them after the AFL matches. General feel from the nations that did/would have made the final is that some of the AFL crowd would have stuck around to watch a bit, rather than show up hours earlier to watch a curtain raiser.

Mail is the Irish (despite how well they performed) are asking if playing in the IC is worth the financial effort. A point was made that the women pay thousands to travel down under to play most their game on a "paddock in front of hardly anyone", when back home they can play a Ladies Gaelic final in a stadium in front of almost 40,000 people.

 

[Gigantor]

Where exactly do I say all of this ?

ARe you not arguing in favour of the various international leagues getting together to form an international body? Have we both not agreed that the AFL will never establish such a body itself?

Were you not dismissive of playing IC finals at the MCG and Etihad?

Have you not mentioned the possibility of such an international body playing the IC outside of Australia?

If any of the above is wrong, clarify.

 

[RedV3x]

Gigantor is saying stuff Red simply hasn't said.
Maybe if Gigantor stuck to what has been said then he can improve his knowledge of Australian Football overseas.

 

[RedV3x]

One point raised about the IC Grand Finals was why not play them after the AFL matches. General feel from the nations that did/would have made the final is that some of the AFL crowd would have stuck around to watch a bit, rather than show up hours earlier to watch a curtain raiser.

People are starting to realise this.
The French played their grand final at Jean Bouin Stade after a rugby match in front of thousands.
(Unfortunately torrential rain came down to spoil the affair).
The only negative I can see to curtain-fallers is the possible lighting cost.

Mail is the Irish (despite how well they performed) are asking if playing in the IC is worth the financial effort. A point was made that the women pay thousands to travel down under to play most their game on a "paddock in front of hardly anyone", when back home they can play a Ladies Gaelic final in a stadium in front of almost 40,000 people.

All teams would be asking themselves that.

 

[Gigantor]

One point raised about the IC Grand Finals was why not play them after the AFL matches. General feel from the nations that did/would have made the final is that some of the AFL crowd would have stuck around to watch a bit, rather than show up hours earlier to watch a curtain raiser.

Mail is the Irish (despite how well they performed) are asking if playing in the IC is worth the financial effort. A point was made that the women pay thousands to travel down under to play most their game on a "paddock in front of hardly anyone", when back home they can play a Ladies Gaelic final in a stadium in front of almost 40,000 people.

All understandable, the IC has always been a labour of love for all those who compete (a very expensive one). Personally, I think it's a miracle that six have been staged.

I read a horrible story of their being a misunderstanding between the Pakistan teams and a local club in terms of the extent to which they would be looked after. The reality is that it's hard to imagine any major funding coming from the AFL for a very long time, if ever.

Re the Ladies Gaelic final comment, there are hundreds of sporting events which will attract big crowds in the countries from whence the players come, if that's what they prefer to do, then they should do it. In fact, the Irish appear to be amongst the better off countries in the respect that they have at least half of their players already here.

The timing of the two grand finals is a valid observation, one that could be easily made (unless AFL House would reject the symbolism of an AFL game acting as a curtain raiser to a game featuring amateurs).

 

[Gigantor]

Gigantor is saying stuff Red simply hasn't said.
Maybe if Gigantor stuck to what has been said then he can improve his knowledge of Australian Football overseas.

Well, just for starters, what did you mean by this comment: "If all the countries work together and form an organisation that can further the interests of Australian Football." ?

or this comment:

"The International Cup is a multi-million dollar event and any city would love to have it. "

 

[RedV3x]

ARe you not arguing in favour of the various international leagues getting together to form an international body?

I didn't even say that exactly. You really should learn to read before attributing remarks to people.

Were you not dismissive of playing IC finals at the MCG and Etihad?

Where do I say that exactly ?

Have you not mentioned the possibility of such an international body playing the IC outside of Australia?

Where do I say that exactly ?

If any of the above is wrong, clarify.

You find the quotes.

 

[Gigantor]

I didn't even say that exactly. You really should learn to read before attributing remarks to people.



Where do I say that exactly ?



Where do I say that exactly ?



You find the quotes.

I've already put up two:

Well, just for starters, what did you mean by this comment: "If all the countries work together and form an organisation that can further the interests of Australian Football." ?

or this comment:

"The International Cup is a multi-million dollar event and any city would love to have it. "

So I have taken that to mean that you think there is scope for the international leagues to establish an international body which would take over organisation of the IC, and that staging the IC outside of Australia would become a possibility.

 

[RedV3x]

I've already put up two:

No.You have put up one single quote. You do know what a quote is don't you.
What I said is completely different to your rants.
So find the quotes.

 

[RedV3x]

So I have taken that to mean that you think there is scope for the international leagues to establish an international body which would take over organisation of the IC, and that staging the IC outside of Australia would become a possibility.

So that's what you've taken from the comments.
I didn't say that did I.
The statements I made simply mean what I said.

 

[Gigantor]

No.You have put up one single quote. You do know what a quote is don't you.
What I said is completely different to your rants.
So find the quotes.

Something in quotation marks does generally mean a quote. I've copied those sentences from your posts.

If you reckon you didn't write that, then it's pretty hard to take you seriously.

Oh, I see now, you're trolling me? Ok, good one, you got me, well done.

 

[RedV3x]

Well, just for starters, what did you mean by this comment: "If all the countries work together and form an organisation that can further the interests of Australian Football."

I'm saying, if we (the Australian Football loving fraternity) work together we can achieve results more than not working together.

"The International Cup is a multi-million dollar event and any city would love to have it. "

I saying 1,000 people spending say $2,000 each is $2,000,000(very conservative figures). Who wouldn't want that in their city ?