IC17 2017 AFL International Cup

[jarrod_island_doggies]

Anyone thinking those international leagues complaining about not getting enough support from the AFL to run their own leagues, are turning around and setting up a world governing body are kidding themselves.

It would be like Collie Eagles football club and Boyanup junior football club getting together and setting up an Australian national organising body.

Unless people are thinking a few guys getting together in a room with International football on the door is going to cut it.

If the AFL doesn't organise it, it isn't happening. If the AFL isn't paying for it, it isn't happening



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Then we come back to the problem of the AFL being the top dog with no governing body. Surely an AFL approved and branded body would be some sort of toothless advisory council, merely tasked with improving the way in which the AFL can maximise its access to sponsors, players and tv viewers.

 

[RedV3x]

Surely an AFL approved and branded body would be some sort of ...

body

tasked with improving the way in which the AFL can maximise its access to sponsors, players and tv viewers.

Yes. A world body would help the AFL and help the development of Australian Football overseas.
Isn't this a win/win situation.
Australian Football is further helped and developed whilst the AFL has the possibility of gaining some players.

 

[jarrod_island_doggies]

Yes. A world body would help the AFL and help the development of Australian Football overseas.
Isn't this a win/win situation.
Australian Football is further helped and developed whilst the AFL has the possibility of gaining some players.

Would it definitely help the latter? Sorry, I was just reading pages of discussion about how the AFL does almost zip to help the IC and is always looking out for the AFL (as is its right) with nary a thought about lower level footy. Wouldn't a body just turbocharge the AFL's raison d'etre overseas?

 

[The_Wookie]

Yes. A world body would help the AFL and help the development of Australian Football overseas.

How?

 

[RedV3x]

How?

I gave some examples earlier and this already happens in many guises on an add hoc basis.

 

[The_Wookie]

I gave some examples earlier and this already happens in many guises on an add hoc basis.

Oh I thought you might have had something practical too.

 

[RedV3x]

Oh I thought you might have had something practical too.

You mean in addition to what I posted earlier - of course.
Are you really interested ?

 

[jatz14]

You mean in addition to what I posted earlier - of course.
Are you really interested ?

Everything described does no more than an office in the AFL for international footy would do.

If you had an AFL office, that was in regular contact with all the key over seas leagues, what would an independent or semi independent body offer. Especially one with no resources?

All the stated outcomes here are desirable, but if this body is anything more than a facebook page and a semi regular phone hookup, then it needs the AFL to set it up, and then what's the point. If it's no more than that, then what's the point?

The people they contact are free to, and do, confer with each other.

Giving them a group name, with no authority, no power, no resources, achieves what?

After all these comments, I am still unclear what this proposed body is supposed to offer that couldn't be achieved with half a dozen phone calls.



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[The_Wookie]

You mean in addition to what I posted earlier - of course.
Are you really interested ?

Im interested in practical applications, not pie in the sky stuff. yes all the other countries - who can barely fund themselves - can get together and do what exactly to further international football more than they are now?

Oh they'll need funding - why would the AFL hand millions to another body it doesnt control? It wouldnt. A non Australian body isnt going to get AUSAID or other federal funding either.

its for data collection and feedback - that you admit is pretty much already being done - so why would they change?

The AFL is about bringing atheletes here to play the sport, and less on developing players overseas. To that end The AFL runs a US combine, as well as NZ and European combines.

 

[RedV3x]

what exactly to further international football more than they are now?

You only have to look at at was achieved when AFL Europe was established and AFL Asia.
Local organic football working with a little AFL assistance produced quantum improvement.
North America is crying out for some representation.
There are large areas of the world without representation.
As I said before the current situation is add hoc.
There is nobody "making phone calls" most of the time is there.
That's the problem that needs addressing there is no person making those "phone calls"
All the "data collection and feedback" is going nowhere.
At the moment there is no dialoque and consequently little is being achieved.
A world body would at least be an addressable focus.

 

[The_Wookie]

Is North America actually crying out for representation? - I doubt they want an AFL supervisor which Europe got. And representation to what?

 

[BringBackTorps]

These days, he pushes his organisations rather than his involvement. He set up "Global Footy" and now "Australian Football International".
The latter entity has the highest measurable public involvement over other entities involved with football overseas.

Define "highest measurable public involvement"?

Also, above, re "Fiji for AFL players", are you suggesting the country which is likely to produce the biggest no. of recruits into the AFL is Fiji? Why?
(I would have thought Ireland -or an outside chance the USA, with its supply of extremely athletic 200 cm potential ruckmen).

You have not identified the"50 odd countries which regularly play Australian Football" ie a minimum of 8 teams in one country, playing 4 full contact matches (9's, or bigger sides) on a weekend at various locations, on a minimum of 10 weekends per year (ie country has a MINIMUM 40 full contact matches pa) -with a controlling body in that country. I thought there would be far less than 50 such countries -maybe 10?

In the 1980's in the USA, when ESPN started, it received, from the VFL, VFL games for free -& apparently attracted a good following, even though games might have been shown after midnight, local time.
Has the AFL ever been asked and/or explained explicitly why this same strategy could not again be used to promote AF ie give telecasts to other countries for nothing- as long as there are agreed commitments to show games/min. no. of hours every week (or just to countries where there are minimal nos. of individual paid subscribers now)?

IMO, the most effective way to promote the game is to allow people to easily see it, which must be FTA -they might stumble on it whilst channel surfing! This would be similar to how some "oddities"can go viral online, & ultimately get 1,000,000 hits. If shown on FTA, hangers or monster torp goals would attract interest.
I suspect there are many people who would want to play a full body contact sport, with the associated adrenalin rush/feeling of satisfaction that one has conquered fear; & been given the implied "respect"by one's team mates for the necessary displays of courage. Soccer & basketball don't have these qualities; Gridiron gear is very expensive &, like RU/RL, requires brute force/more fierce tackling, & injury.

Would there be interest in a male & female World Team, 3 days after the IC GF, playing an evening match under good lighting against combined "All Star" Melb. teams (eg Div.4 VAFA, VFLW women with less than 4 years adult AF experience)?

 

[RedV3x]

re "Fiji for AFL players", are you suggesting the country which is likely to produce the biggest no. of recruits into the AFL is Fiji?

Yes from a local competition.
The investment in Fiji has produced impressive results already.
Fiji produces ready made players like ireland, but the players are stronger.

 

[RedV3x]

You have not identified the"50 odd countries which regularly play Australian Football"

I know. I haven't had time to go through the list of 50 odd countries regularly playing Australian Football in a recognized league
to find who meet other people's criteria.

 

[The_Wookie]

I know. I haven't had time to go through the list of 50 odd countries regularly playing Australian Football in a recognized league
to find who meet other people's criteria.

How about just listing the 50 you think meet your criteria.

 

[RedV3x]

IMO, the most effective way to promote the game is to allow people to easily see it, which must be FTA ?

I agree, but it never happened and is less likely to happen.
AFL Canada has games televised on Rogers TV.
Irish got got figures on their streaming.

 

[RedV3x]

Would there be interest in a male & female World Team, 3 days after the IC GF, playing an evening match under good lighting against combined "All Star" Melb. teams (eg Div.4 VAFA, VFLW women with less than 4 years adult AF experience)?

Interest is a relative degree.
There was good interest in I.C. games outside of Melbourne.
There was no promotion of the I.C. and when it was mentioned nobody thought it was pertinent to give details.
Promote the game, outside of Melbourne with no competition then you have a chance.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Interest is a relative degree.
There was good interest in I.C. games outside of Melbourne.
There was no promotion of the I.C. and when it was mentioned nobody thought it was pertinent to give details.
Promote the game, outside of Melbourne with no competition then you have a chance.

I don't fully understand your response.
Why is it more desirable, from the World Team players'perspective (M& F), to play Aust. men's & women's teams outside of Melb.? Do they want to be part of a World Team, playing Australians- & how do you know? Are you suggesting there is simply more interest in the country in foreign teams?
(Many foreign athletes, I assume, need to return to their home countries very soon after the IC GF. Playing outside of Melb. would be more time consuming for them -& probably difficult/inconvenient for the Aust. teams to travel to, after normal work committments).

Also, I have not heard before that Fiji might surpass Ireland & USA as a source of foreign AFL (or AFLW) recruits. Certainly, the Fijian women were physically imposing -but their skills were average. None of the Fijian men were close to being AFL recruits.
What time frame is being considered; what are the current AF comps & player nos. in Fiji (I thought they were very small); programs in existence now & in the future, to achieve AFL recruitment; what is being spent now, & in the future? Brisbane's involvement?
Has this been mentioned publicly before -if so, where, when, & by whom? What exactly was said?
If not publicly, why is it yet to be mentioned? And who & when have you obtained this information?
(No need to mention names -but simply some reference to the person's general background in international AF development).

 

[RedV3x]

Why is it more desirable, from the World Team players'perspective (M& F), to play Aust. men's & women's teams outside of Melb.?

As I've said before, the problem with Melbourne is that there is simply TOO MUCH football to choose from.
The community and country rounds are very popular with the public (and players).
"Outside Melbourne" could also be another city.

Also, I have not heard before that Fiji might surpass Ireland & USA as a source of foreign AFL (or AFLW) recruits.

Of course not. It is just my observation and interpolating recent events.
They are most likely to produce the first "organic" AFL male player.
The AFLW already has a number of "organic" female recruits and Fiji is still a fair way off in the women.

 

[jarrod_island_doggies]

As I've said before, the problem with Melbourne is that there is simply TOO MUCH football to choose from.
The community and country rounds are very popular with the public (and players).
"Outside Melbourne" could also be another city.



Of course not. It is just my observation and interpolating recent events.
They are most likely to produce the first "organic" AFL male player.
The AFLW already has a number of "organic" female recruits and Fiji is still a fair way off in the women.

As much as we'd like that to be the case, I think Fiji and the entire Melanesian/South Pacific region is a ways off yet(with the exception of the big two in NZ and PNG). I've had a little bit to do with AFL Vanuatu and know some who are or have been involved with Fiji and Solomon Islands. Solo was streets ahead not that long ago but have unfortunately fallen in a hole & Vanu are coming from a long way back (but there are some very motivated people on the ground there making the most of limited resources). Fiji has come on in recent years and are the most likely of the bunch, but there remain lots of barriers to their progress to a producer of top line talent.

I think there's possibly a bit of romanticism associated with another Alipate Carlile, David Rodan and of course Nic Naitanui coming through, all either hailing from Fiji originally or via parents in the case of Nicnat, but each of those guys were raised in Australia from an early age.

 

[RedV3x]

Fiji has come on in recent years and are the most likely of the bunch,

Of course they are, for the same reason Fiji is strong in rugby.
They have 500,000 people in a compact area with a good league.
Now, investment has seen a great rise in the professionalism in of AFL Fiji.
Yes, there is still is a long way to go.
The question is where is it most likely that organic football will produce AFL players.
The first player could be add hoc from anywhere.
I'm pretty sure the AFL was hoping it would be the R.S.A.
The P.N.G. produce a lot of footballers but not AFL. Everybody is looking at "Ace".
Plenty of overseas players tall enough running around from N.Z., U.S.A., G.B. and Ireland
but they haven't experienced the competitive junior years..

 

[jarrod_island_doggies]

Of course they are, for the same reason Fiji is strong in rugby.
They have 500,000 people in a compact area with a good league.
Now, investment has seen a great rise in the professionalism in of AFL Fiji.
Yes, there is still is a long way to go.
The question is where is it most likely that organic football will produce AFL players.
The first player could be add hoc from anywhere.
I'm pretty sure the AFL was hoping it would be the R.S.A.
The P.N.G. produce a lot of footballers but not AFL. Everybody is looking at "Ace".
Plenty of overseas players tall enough running around from N.Z., U.S.A., G.B. and Ireland
but they haven't experienced the competitive junior years..

A lot of it has come from DFAT, which I will tell you what, is not a pot of gold for foreign countries bleating tabloid media would want you to believe.

PNG has produced Gideon Simon, a nuggety, hard tackling inside mid who got a run with Richmond a few years back. He was apparently a ripper bloke, gave it his best and was keen to learn. He never got near a debut in the seniors, mainly because he's so short. While there are players from Fiji, Vanuatu and PNG who are tall and athletic the way that the modern AFL prototype is, they are fewer and further between c.f. NZ or USA. From personal observation, many of the most talented players in the Melanesian counties lack for height. If we are arguing most likely organic footballing sources, I struggle to see how you can elevate Fiji above the others given that (A) you agree that Fiji has a long way to go (B) AFL clubs have given little if any indication that they are keen to head down the international path for smalls (outside of Ireland).

 

[RedV3x]

I struggle to see how you can elevate Fiji above the others

Of course they are, for the same reason Fiji is strong in rugby.
They have 500,000 people in a compact area with a good league.
I struggle to comprehend you even mention S.I. and Vanuatu.

 

[RedV3x]

Would it definitely help the latter? I was just reading pages of discussion about how the AFL does almost zip to help the IC

So haven't you answered your own question ?
How can the addition of a world body not help the AFL if the AFL is doing "zip".

 

[RedV3x]

PNG has produced Gideon Simon,

And now the talk is about "Ace".
I've already acknowledged that PNG produce/will produce the most number of footballers.
I've mentioned Fiji because they aren't short.
Did you attend and Fiji Tribe games ?
Did you note team sizes ?