List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 1

[Longmembrey]

I'm more bewildered why not many teams went after Tom Mitchell.

Any reason why we wouldnt have been in to Jarman Impey? Young, lightening quick, can play midfield, yet the Hawks got him with the weakest draft hand of all?

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

This is the reason why we will as a team and as a supporter base continue to fulfill our own negative expectations.

Wouldn't it be great if that horrible result galvanised the supporter base and we had 40,000 come out....

if only ... .
we as a fan base are more reative than anything else ... we have a shocker so we punish the club by staying at home .. we then complain that we are in debt all the time and we dont get good sponsors ... i know its easy for me over here in Perth but if i was in Melbourne i would be at every saints game every week (bar something exceptional) win lose or draw i would just show up ... but i do get the frustration you guys get

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Agree totally Stav.

We have a few players on our list that have proven from time to time they have what it takes to become one of the elite of the AFL.

Unfortunately they either aren’t improving like they should be or not doing it consistently enough.

To me, that’s a coaching and developing issue. Someone like Clarkson would have this list well and truly up and running by now.

i disagree ... its the lack of someon on the field that is killing us ... Clarkson is a great coach yes but he isnt there on the field the reason his message gets followed on the field is because he has the troops on the field to drive his message and to lead the team .. look at the list Clarkson has .. he has every line on the field with a premiership player thats each section of the ground being led by guys who have faced the heat of a g/f and battled through and took home the flag .. we have on guy in his twilight years who has a flag and the rest bearly have a finals game to their name.. that experiance that drive from those senior players means the younger guys can just play instinctivly as a team they will fight it out .. for us we got a heap of good kids but no one to be the one on the ground to push the standard set ...
our strongest period we had a General on each line Roo controled the forward Lenny lead the mid and BJ the backs .. we had three captins out there .. at the moment we got half a captain in Geary

 

[George]

This is the reason why we will as a team and as a supporter base continue to fulfill our own negative expectations.

Wouldn't it be great if that horrible result galvanised the supporter base and we had 40,000 come out....

Would this tell the club that garbage performances are ok, though?

 

[George]

Thing is... It's only round 2. Still a lot to play out.

The more I hear the more I'm convinced that it's a lack of senior leadership and this is something the current group has to own.

You don't disown your kid because they let you down...

Be there!

I will be there, but for the majority of the not so die hards, it'll be sitting on the couch in front of the TV I'd think!

 

[The Enemy Within]

I will be there, but for the majority of the not so die hards, it'll be sitting on the couch in front of the TV I'd think!

I’ll be there

 

[soups1982]

Would this tell the club that garbage performances are ok, though?

The coaches and people around the club are employed to manage those performances.

We as a supporter base are there to support the club no matter what!

 

[BrutThough]

I like Long, he's got something about him. He's a little goer who plays with more heart than 90% of our list. Clark was given hospital passes constantly, he kept going to the ball, something Billings and other seniors decided to stop doing when it got hot the kitchen.

Please, Long constantly shirks contests. For a guy who has played 5 games, he doesn't look desperate to get the ball or keep his spot.
Twice in the first quarter on friday, Long didnt even bother trying to go for the ball when it was in space and no others players around him, yet 2 north players came sprinting to get the ball.
Everyone around me in the crowd yelled "why not run for the f**king ball long!". so quite obvious to everyone.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Tell me you wouldn't swap him for either of them though. He's like a shit Robbie Grey then if that makes the message more palatable. He's a soft **** with more talent than anyone on our list but he's a pea-heart that pisses the bed if his mum turns the lights out. Potential is only potential for so long and then it's a waste of talent.

Get real mate. Stop projecting. Billings is better than both of them were at his age. It takes time to develop.
If he fixes his goal kicking he will be up there.

95% of the players were abysmal in that game. Maybe it's the coaching or club leaders that need to be looked at because they aren't developing the right qualities into these players or inspiring them to fight and win.

 

[BrutThough]

I will be there, but for the majority of the not so die hards, it'll be sitting on the couch in front of the TV I'd think!

It is more important to turn up with Saturday than any other week.
I will proudly be there.

 

[plugger66]

I will be there, but for the majority of the not so die hards, it'll be sitting on the couch in front of the TV I'd think!

You would swear the way some are carrying on here we were one win and 21 losses. Yes it was against a side that people don’t rate but maybe they are better than we think and we might be worse. I still say the problem with some supporters is they overrate the list and then carry like children when they are proven wrong.

I haven’t been to game yet because things on and usually don’t go Saturday nights because of my other club but I will there hoping we win thinking we will lose but I will be barracking for richo and every single kid out there


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Would this tell the club that garbage performances are ok, though?

if the club needs a poor crowd number to know that garbage performances are not ok then we got bigger issues ..

 

[Mowman]

The coaches and people around the club are employed to manage those performances.

We as a supporter base are there to support the club no matter what!

Not so sure about that, I can understand why people drop of, I upgraded family's memberships from last year and is around 2 K this year thats a fair chunk of money to spend and go watch that garbage that was dished up Friday.
Club needs to provide some basics to its supporters, that it has clear plan it is well managed and HOPE
other wise you will have shitty membership base of 40k

 

[luca77]

Please, Long constantly shirks contests. For a guy who has played 5 games, he doesn't look desperate to get the ball or keep his spot.
Twice in the first quarter on friday, Long didnt even bother trying to go for the ball when it was in space and no others players around him, yet 2 north players came sprinting to get the ball.
Everyone around me in the crowd yelled "why not run for the f**king ball long!". so quite obvious to everyone.

Long constantly shirks contests.

Even from Japan watching on the net I can tell that's a whopping exaggeration.

 

[#gosaintas]

Tell me you wouldn't swap him for either of them though. He's like a shit Robbie Grey then if that makes the message more palatable. He's a soft **** with more talent than anyone on our list but he's a pea-heart that pisses the bed if his mum turns the lights out. Potential is only potential for so long and then it's a waste of talent.

Even for you, that's a stupid post. You should be embarrassed.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Too many shit trucks on our list and one eyed Saints fans. Remember when Brodie Murdoch, Josh Saunders, Tom Ledger and Eli Templeton were all going to come good and just needed time? Well there’s some more to add to that list, had enough time and haven’t proven to be quality AFL players.

Years end I think we need to move on;

Wright
Pierce
Freeman
McKenzie
Minchington

Minch and McKenzie have each played a few games that looked good but at the end of the day we’re few and far between. Why we would not look at trading in more than 1 young player (who isn’t even a starting 22 player) in the last trade period is beyond me.

At this stage White and Rice have gone past McKenzie and you would want them playing a few games this year.

Freeman is just an injury bust, fair play to recruiters taking a punt of pick 28 or whatever it was on an injured gun mid (something we’re crying out for) but times up.

Rebuild is over, should be in finals by now, last year was stagnant and this year could be going backwards. Our list managers deserve to be raked over the coals for some of their decisions and non-decisions IMO.


(Yes I am still shitty after that Friday game for anyone wondering)

 

[bird_man]

i disagree ... its the lack of someon on the field that is killing us ... Clarkson is a great coach yes but he isnt there on the field the reason his message gets followed on the field is because he has the troops on the field to drive his message and to lead the team .. look at the list Clarkson has .. he has every line on the field with a premiership player thats each section of the ground being led by guys who have faced the heat of a g/f and battled through and took home the flag .. we have on guy in his twilight years who has a flag and the rest bearly have a finals game to their name.. that experiance that drive from those senior players means the younger guys can just play instinctivly as a team they will fight it out .. for us we got a heap of good kids but no one to be the one on the ground to push the standard set ...
our strongest period we had a General on each line Roo controled the forward Lenny lead the mid and BJ the backs .. we had three captins out there .. at the moment we got half a captain in Geary

A good coach will turn players into good leaders.

Have a look at the side he took to a flag in 2008. He didn’t have premiership players in each line back then. He turned them into great leaders.

He had Crawf at the twighlight of his career and brought Dew back from retirement and then he created great leaders like Hodge and Mitchell.

The fact we don’t have any good leaders is a reflection on our coaching staff IMO.

Why aren’t Roberton, Ross, Steven, Carlisle, Bruce able to do this? Isn’t part of our drafting plan to recruit good leaders? Seems this is getting lost somewhere.

And as for Sloane making a huge difference, I don’t entirely agree. He has shown time and again he struggled to shake a tag. Got smashed in the second half of the grand final when they put a tag on him. He would find it tough with a weaker midfield around him.

Leadership will help no doubt, but we are that far off that pace that one player is not going to be the difference between us contending and not. Improvement needs to come within if we are ever going to get close.

 

[JG22]

Too many shit trucks on our list and one eyed Saints fans. Remember when Brodie Murdoch, Josh Saunders, Tom Ledger and Eli Templeton were all going to come good and just needed time? Well there’s some more to add to that list, had enough time and haven’t proven to be quality AFL players.

Years end I think we need to move on;

Wright
Pierce
Freeman
McKenzie
Minchington

Minch and McKenzie have each played a few games that looked good but at the end of the day we’re few and far between. Why we would not look at trading in more than 1 young player (who isn’t even a starting 22 player) in the last trade period is beyond me.

At this stage White and Rice have gone past McKenzie and you would want them playing a few games this year.

Freeman is just an injury bust, fair play to recruiters taking a punt of pick 28 or whatever it was on an injured gun mid (something we’re crying out for) but times up.

Rebuild is over, should be in finals by now, last year was stagnant and this year could be going backwards. Our list managers deserve to be raked over the coals for some of their decisions and non-decisions IMO.


(Yes I am still shitty after that Friday game for anyone wondering)

I am with you and think Pierce & Wright will definitely be delisted.

McKenzie is contracted so will stay.

The other two may go as well.

Will depend on trades and draft selections.

 

[plugger66]

Still no idea why we are even comparing Clarko to Richo. Its like comparing Plugger to Paddy.

 

[StCicatriz]

you dont think the fact Clarko also had the likes of Roughy Mitchell Hodge lewis Bergoine........ as onfield coaches as well helpd the likes of their kids become men quicker ?

alot of those guys werent leaders on day 1

where as a bunch of our guys did have high potential for leadership. they were captains etc.

the difference is one set of players developed into great players and great leaders

our blokes havent taken the next step into consistently good players let alone great ones or great leaders

 

[StCicatriz]

i disagree ... its the lack of someon on the field that is killing us ... Clarkson is a great coach yes but he isnt there on the field the reason his message gets followed on the field is because he has the troops on the field to drive his message and to lead the team .. look at the list Clarkson has .. he has every line on the field with a premiership player thats each section of the ground being led by guys who have faced the heat of a g/f and battled through and took home the flag .. we have on guy in his twilight years who has a flag and the rest bearly have a finals game to their name.. that experiance that drive from those senior players means the younger guys can just play instinctivly as a team they will fight it out .. for us we got a heap of good kids but no one to be the one on the ground to push the standard set ...
our strongest period we had a General on each line Roo controled the forward Lenny lead the mid and BJ the backs .. we had three captins out there .. at the moment we got half a captain in Geary

you're looking at the finished product and many iterations of what clarko has done

how did clarko get it to that point, yet we cant

look at how many young players he had when he first started at hawthorn

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Too many shit trucks on our list and one eyed Saints fans. Remember when Brodie Murdoch, Josh Saunders, Tom Ledger and Eli Templeton were all going to come good and just needed time? Well there’s some more to add to that list, had enough time and haven’t proven to be quality AFL players.

Years end I think we need to move on;

Wright
Pierce
Freeman
McKenzie
Minchington

Minch and McKenzie have each played a few games that looked good but at the end of the day we’re few and far between. Why we would not look at trading in more than 1 young player (who isn’t even a starting 22 player) in the last trade period is beyond me.

At this stage White and Rice have gone past McKenzie and you would want them playing a few games this year.

Freeman is just an injury bust, fair play to recruiters taking a punt of pick 28 or whatever it was on an injured gun mid (something we’re crying out for) but times up.

Rebuild is over, should be in finals by now, last year was stagnant and this year could be going backwards. Our list managers deserve to be raked over the coals for some of their decisions and non-decisions IMO.


(Yes I am still shitty after that Friday game for anyone wondering)

Agree mate (and yes I am sh***y too). Even though I got torched for saying this a bit last year, Sandy's results bring home how little depth we actually have (separate to what people hope it will become).

After April last year we beat one full time AFL aligned side (and we had one of the AFL's shortest injury lists). In the end we finished 11th in a 14 team comp where 2 teams were not close to VFL standard. So there is nothing wrong with a bit of a cleanout (especially when players become a known quantity).

Personally I would be inclined to give anyone born post 94 (those 23 and under next year) a little more time. That might save players like McKenzie, Phillips, Lonie and Freeman (even with injuries considered).

Below is our list born 1994 and before (the known quantities I mentioned above). That is 21 players. Of that I would consider Steven, Robbo, Carlisle, Ross and Membery untouchable, and Bruce, Newnes and Webb core players. Geary is the captain so he makes the safe list too.

But that is only 9 safe out of 21. To me, any of the rest are either tradeable, replaceable or delistable. Of course you don't move them all. We are not Melbourne. But for me that is 12 genuinely replaceable players before we even look at delisting the half a dozen or so battling to survive from the 23 and under group.

Gilbert, Sam
Armitage, David
Geary, Jarryn
Brown, Nathan
Steven, Jack
Savage, Shane
Hickey, Tom
Stevens, Koby
Roberton, Dylan
Carlisle, Jake
Weller, Maverick
Bruce, Josh
Newnes, Jack
Ross, Sebastian
Longer, Billy
Webster, Jimmy
Minchington, Darren
Wright, Nathan
Membrey, Tim
Connellan, Ray
Pierce, Lewis

 

[bird_man]

Still no idea why we are even comparing Clarko to Richo. Its like comparing Plugger to Paddy.

Not comparing him, just using him as an example of a coach being able to turn young players into leaders.

Surely we can’t just trade 4 or 5 leaders into the club, you need to create your own.

Agree that comparing the two is like comparing plugger to Paddy. Miles apart.

 

[plugger66]

Not comparing him, just using him as an example of a coach being able to turn young players into leaders.

Surely we can’t just trade 4 or 5 leaders into the club, you need to create your own.

Agree that comparing the two is like comparing plugger to Paddy. Miles apart.

Certainly do need leaders and we wont get 3 or 4 to the club. Geary is the right captain but playing BP limits his leadership. Ross should be our midfield leader. Steven isn't the type. We need a forward leader who not only can talk but is smart enough for set ups. No player stands out at all in that role. Roo or Joey should have stayed another year. Madness losing 600 games all at once on top of Dempster. Some of internal moves worries me more than the coaching and I do blame Richo for some of them.

 

[VDS66]

Would this tell the club that garbage performances are ok, though?

Stepping back a bit...

Considering the high % of attendees are members, then not showing won't hurt us financially. However a drop in GA tickets would.

This may sound crass, but if be inclined to turn up in numbers. If they repeat the crap again then bio the mofos off the ground at the end and send a message.

If they play well then cheer them hard and give them confidence.