Society/Culture Jordan B Peterson

[Showbags]

The problem with Peterson is he is one of these typical free speech warriors who mistakes any criticism of his opinion with "having his free speech shut down by the pc police".

He doesn't understand the difference between state control of speech and social criticism or protest.

Guys like Peterson often weaponize the concept of free speech. They shield their own views or views that they agree with from criticism by invoking the free speech card (sometimes even defending genuinely hateful stuff).

But they do absolutely nothing to defend the free speech rights of those they disagree with as they are quite happy to see their views shut down (see Colin Kaepernick).

 

[Showbags]

Having said that I do agree with some of his stuff on identity politics run amok. Look at Natalie Portman being called an anti-semite for her correct stance on Israel.

Or Bernie Sanders being called a racist for criticizing the Democratic party under Obama (this despite Sanders having one of the best records on civil rights in American politics and a 100% rating from the NAACP) or being called a misogynist for not licking the arse of a corporatist like Hillary (this despite him having a better record than Clinton on women's issues).

 

[ShanDog]

The problem with Peterson is he is one of these typical free speech warriors who mistakes any criticism of his opinion with "having his free speech shut down by the pc police".

He doesn't understand the difference between state control of speech and social criticism or protest.

Guys like Peterson often weaponize the concept of free speech. They shield their own views or views that they agree with from criticism by invoking the free speech card (sometimes even defending genuinely hateful stuff).

But they do absolutely nothing to defend the free speech rights of those they disagree with as they are quite happy to see their views shut down (see Colin Kaepernick).

What? Peterson has never denied anyone the right to speak and has always invited criticism and debate. Find me an instance where he has used free speech (which doesn't exist like it does in the US) to silence critics or suggest they should be.

 

[Chief]

He’s got nothing new to say, but has shoe-horned himself in and got a book deal off the back of some YouTube videos.

Standard self-help stuff. Nothing new to see here.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

In the age of post modernism, mum's home made apple pie can look very revolutionary.

Personal resposibility. Boy, no-one has ever bought that up before. Has he talked about a fair day's work for a fair day's pay?

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

Peterson causes cognitive dissonance in many of his critics. The problem for them is their go tactic of attack the messenger does not work on a refined and clean character like him.

Any claims of nazi or similar disappear pretty fast for any neutral that actually examines his work. This exposes his critics as empty vessels.

 

[TheMightyEagles]

He's a very smart guy and has a knack for making psychological theorists like Jung accessible to almost everyone. A lot of his political views are sensible and well-articulated albeit with a few blind spots. Definitely a conservative in the current climate and deep down he seems to identify with the tribe (despite being so opposed to tribalism), mostly because of his strong opposition to the identity politics that almost defines the American left these days. Overall I enjoy listening to what he has to say even though he comes across as a bit shrill and even arrogant at times.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Peterson causes cognitive dissonance in many of his critics. The problem for them is their go tactic of attack the messenger does not work on a refined and clean character like him.

Any claims of nazi or similar disappear pretty fast for any neutral that actually examines his work. This exposes his critics as empty vessels.

It's pretty amazing how he can make normally lucid, bright people lose their s**t.

It just goes to show how invested some folks are with their prejudices.

I shudder to think how they might react if he was actually a politician.

 

[Snake_Baker]

He doesn't understand the difference between state control of speech and social criticism or protest.

Do you have difficulty in understanding how social opinion eventually becomes policy?

 

[Showbags]

What? Peterson has never denied anyone the right to speak and has always invited criticism and debate. Find me an instance where he has used free speech (which doesn't exist like it does in the US) to silence critics or suggest they should be.

Its his double standards that's the real giveaway.

He often stands up for ideologies he agrees with but never lifts a finger to defend those on the left who have their opinions shutdown by the right wing pc police (I'm happy to be corrected on this).

It's all well and good to talk about free speech but what really matters is standing up for all sides of the argument (plenty on the left have double standards on this as well).

Do you have difficulty in understanding how social opinion eventually becomes policy?

As it should. That's called democracy.

But rights such as free speech should be protected. Which is why I'm not particularly comfortable with 18c.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Its his double standards that's the real giveaway.

He often stands up for ideologies he agrees with but never lifts a finger to defend those on the left who have their opinions shutdown by the right wing pc police (I'm happy to be corrected on this).

It's all well and good to talk about free speech but what really matters is standing up for all sides of the argument (plenty on the left have double standards on this as well).

Why are you referring to a psychologists views as political double standards?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

In the age of post modernism, mum's home made apple pie can look very revolutionary.

Personal resposibility. Boy, no-one has ever bought that up before. Has he talked about a fair day's work for a fair day's pay?

We’re in an age of post modernism?

Can you state what that even means? And be precise.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Peterson causes cognitive dissonance in many of his critics. The problem for them is their go tactic of attack the messenger does not work on a refined and clean character like him.

Any claims of nazi or similar disappear pretty fast for any neutral that actually examines his work. This exposes his critics as empty vessels.

Stop pretending people you disagree with think you’re all nazis.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

What? Peterson has never denied anyone the right to speak and has always invited criticism and debate. Find me an instance where he has used free speech (which doesn't exist like it does in the US) to silence critics or suggest they should be.

I think the poster means that people with s**t opinions play the free speech card (“it’s my right to say it”) when people criticise their opinion.

The worst example was that minister who got emotional about the free speech rights of gay conversion therapies when asked to justify them.

It’s typical of the paranoids who think everyone wants to shut them down and can’t justify their opinions anyway.

I don’t think this applies to Peterson, but it sure as * does to the tabloid posters on this forum.

 

[ShanDog]

He’s got nothing new to say, but has shoe-horned himself in and got a book deal off the back of some YouTube videos.

Standard self-help stuff. Nothing new to see here.

Think you might want to dive into some of his back Catalogue of videos, theories and views before locking that opinion in. It's typically what people say when they've only ever caught the buzzfeed equivalent of Peterson's work, and what several here are referring to when they say people just attack caricatures of him.

 

[Gough]

Tony Robbins with a political twist. If gurus are your thing, go for your life but they're usually selling snake oil.

 

[Chief]

Think you might want to dive into some of his back Catalogue of videos, theories and views before locking that opinion in. It's typically what people say when they've only ever caught the buzzfeed equivalent of Peterson's work, and what several here are referring to when they say people just attack caricatures of him.

I’ve listened to him in Sam Harris’s podcast among other things.

There’s nothing original there that I can see. I suppose there’s nothing new under the sun anyway, so if you like the way he forms his message then it will resonate.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[FireKrakouer]

He often stands up for ideologies he agrees with but never lifts a finger to defend those on the left who have their opinions shutdown by the right wing pc police (I'm happy to be corrected on this).

Do you have any examples of right wing PC police trying to shut down free speech? Perhaps a leftist speaker at a college campus who was unable to give their speech due to right wing rioting? I would suggest he doesn't address this topic because it doesn't exist.

 

[ShanDog]

I’ve listened to him in Sam Harris’s podcast among other things.

There’s nothing original there that I can see. I suppose there’s nothing new under the sun anyway, so if you like the way he forms his message then it will resonate.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think you'd like his maps of meaning course. All the lectures are online (and I think he's uploaded a few years worth of them). If you want to understand the actual original research elements of his work that creates the soundbites and single-issue buzz that comes up on things like Harris' podcast, that's where you'll find it. It's well worth the time IMO.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Do you have any examples of right wing PC police trying to shut down free speech? Perhaps a leftist speaker at a college campus who was unable to give their speech due to right wing rioting? I would suggest he doesn't address this topic because it doesn't exist.

Yasmin. McIntyre.

And there is a world outside the college speaking circuit. Free speech laws in the workplace are hazy.

Not to mention the corporate agendas of mainstream media being neoliberal.

 

[bombersfan4000]

Do you have any examples of right wing PC police trying to shut down free speech? Perhaps a leftist speaker at a college campus who was unable to give their speech due to right wing rioting? I would suggest he doesn't address this topic because it doesn't exist.

Didn’t think the right were the PC police

 

[Chief]

Didn’t think the right were the PC police

PC - within the politics of the right.

 

[Chief]

I think you'd like his maps of meaning course. All the lectures are online (and I think he's uploaded a few years worth of them). If you want to understand the actual original research elements of his work that creates the soundbites and single-issue buzz that comes up on things like Harris' podcast, that's where you'll find it. It's well worth the time IMO.

I'm struggling to keep up with the shelves of books I already have. He hasn't caught my attention as having anything new to say, so I be all like... no.

 

[ShanDog]

I'm struggling to keep up with the shelves of books I already have. He hasn't caught my attention as having anything new to say, so I be all like... no.

Fair enough. Besides, makes it easier to just dismiss people that way

 

[Chief]

Fair enough. Besides, makes it easier to just dismiss people that way

When someone can't demonstrate that they've got something new and interesting to say, why is it my job to prove my impressions wrong? Every day we dismiss things we haven't read or watched based on the advertising. Maybe his advertising is just bad, or appeals to a certain type of person only. If he ever pops up with anything new, he might go in the queue for a watch or a read. Until then, he's just another Dr Phil type.