Tassie football in crisis (again)

[madmug]

Those media rights are worth far more than Tasmanian ones are. Tasmanian football audiences are 1) considered regional and 2) are less than WA regional audiences. They are literally the smallest measured AFL market.



And Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney, GWS...and for a little while before Adelaide Oval opened, Port Adelaide. I know though, Vic Bias right.



Strength of the game in any given state was never a major determining factor in who received a license to be in the AFL. WA and SA got teams because the business case satisfied the AFL. Ditto Queensland and NSW. Tasmania hasnt at any stage. And thats all that matters in this scenario - the AFL has to be satisfied. Its their competition, not the Goodwill Games.



Apparently having teams and developing the game in queensland and nsw is vic centric. And Im the one with the bias. My sides.

Since 1987

* expanded nationally despite an almost even split between the clubs that required a desperate Fitzroy to be bribed in order to get over the line.
* added two Western Australian teams
* added two South Australian teams
* added two Queensland teams
* added one New South Wales/ACT team
* bought the Swans out twice, and kept them running in the face of considerable opposition from Vic clubs
* added SA and WA representatives to the AFL Commission.
* had CEOs from SA, and the current chairman is from WA.
* continue to bail out Brisbane to the tune of millions every year.
* continue to spend tens of millions on Gold Coast and GWS annually
* applied additional funding to Adelaide and Port Adelaide via the SANFL for more than 3 years leading up to Adelaide Oval move.
* bailed out and overhauled AFL NT, AFL Tas, AFL NSW, AFL ACT and AFL Qld.
* spent tens of millions on development programs in NSW and the ACT
* spent tens of millions annually on funding state bodies outside Victoria, including facilities funding and subsidies.
* taken matches out of Victoria to the NT, Tasmania, ACT, Cairns, and New Zealand.
* forcibly merged a foundation Victorian side with Brisbane.
* renegotiated the 1988 MCG Contract to enable all finals except the Grand Final to be played outside Victoria.

It's the 'Goodwill Games' for Victorian suburban clubs thats for sure. That much is clear.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Those media rights are worth far more than Tasmanian ones are. Tasmanian football audiences are 1) considered regional and 2) are less than WA regional audiences. They are literally the smallest measured AFL market. And Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney, GWS...and for a little while before Adelaide Oval opened, Port Adelaide. I know though, Vic Bias right. Strength of the game in any given state was never a major determining factor in who received a license to be in the AFL. WA and SA got teams because the business case satisfied the AFL. Ditto Queensland and NSW. {Tasmania hasnt at any stage.}[?] And thats all that matters in this scenario - the AFL has to be satisfied. Its their competition, not the Goodwill Games.
Apparently having teams and developing the game in queensland and nsw is vic centric. And Im the one with the bias. My sides.
Since 1987
* expanded nationally despite an almost even split between the clubs that required a desperate Fitzroy to be bribed in order to get over the line.
* added two Western Australian teams
* added two South Australian teams
* added two Queensland teams
* added one New South Wales/ACT team
* bought the Swans out twice, and kept them running in the face of considerable opposition from Vic clubs
* added SA and WA representatives to the AFL Commission.
* had CEOs from SA, and the current chairman is from WA.
* continue to bail out Brisbane to the tune of millions every year.
* continue to spend tens of millions on Gold Coast and GWS annually
* applied additional funding to Adelaide and Port Adelaide via the SANFL for more than 3 years leading up to Adelaide Oval move.
* bailed out and overhauled AFL NT, AFL Tas, AFL NSW, AFL ACT and AFL Qld.
* spent tens of millions on development programs in NSW and the ACT
* spent tens of millions annually on funding state bodies outside Victoria, including facilities funding and subsidies.
* taken matches out of Victoria to the NT, Tasmania, ACT, Cairns, and New Zealand.
* forcibly merged a foundation Victorian side with Brisbane.
* renegotiated the 1988 MCG Contract to enable all finals except the Grand Final to be played outside Victoria.

I agree with all your comments above -except for "Tasmania's (business case -my words) hasnt at any stage".

Are you saying that the last Business Case presented by the Tas. Govt. to the AFL c.2008, for inclusion, was specifically found to be inadequate by the AFL?
Or that the AFL simply felt that the Business cases for GC & GWS were (being very large, new markets) superior to the Tas. Business Case?

 

[The_Wookie]

I agree with all your comments above -except for "Tasmania's (business case -my words) hasnt at any stage".

Are you saying that the last Business Case presented by the Tas. Govt. to the AFL c.2008, for inclusion, was specifically found to be inadequate by the AFL?
Or that the AFL simply felt that the Business cases for GC & GWS were (being very large, new markets) superior to the Tas. Business Case?

The AFL said that the finances werent there. Thats more or less saying the Business case wasnt satisfied, no?

 

[The_Wookie]

It's the 'Goodwill Games' for Victorian suburban clubs thats for sure. That much is clear.

Sure it is.

 

[madmug]

Sure it is.

It sure is.

 

[The_Wookie]

It sure is.

Theres as many non victorian clubs on AFL largesse as there are victorian ones. Apparently not worth a mention. You really are blinded by hate.

 

[madmug]

Theres as many non victorian clubs on AFL largesse as there are victorian ones. Apparently not worth a mention. You really are blinded by hate.

Those would be the AFL creations, the ones controlled from Melbourne. The ones used to try to increase the media rights. The media rights money which supports the old suburban clubs. Those ones?

Its great to see 'expansion' of the game, its just the equity & fairness which is missing.

If I'm blinded by hate, you would be blinded by your sycophantic view of the God AFL.

 

[The_Wookie]

Those would be the AFL creations, the ones controlled from Melbourne. The ones used to try to increase the media rights. The media rights money which supports the old suburban clubs. Those ones?

Actually the media rights support ALL clubs not just the old ones. And they didnt "try" to increase media rights, they actually did increase the media rights.

 

[madmug]

Actually the media rights support ALL clubs not just the old ones. And they didnt "try" to increase media rights, they actually did increase the media rights.

Support, yes some much more than others it appears. 3/4 Northern 'expansion' clubs & probably at least 2 Suburban clubs wouldn't survive without big welfare handouts.

 

[Kwality]

Theres as many non victorian clubs on AFL largesse as there are victorian ones. Apparently not worth a mention. You really are blinded by hate.

Some have had 100 years + to get their act together, or 25+ if you take 1990 as the step off for the national comp. Surely that is relevant, you seemed to think it is when viewing West Perths problem in the WAFL.
Blindness is not only fuelled by hate, although I'd prefer to characterise the mugsta as a true fan that has been dudded by Australian footy & the Tas Govt.

 

[madmug]

Some have had 100 years + to get their act together, or 25+ if you take 1990 as the step off for the national comp. Surely that is relevant, you seemed to think it is when viewing West Perths problem in the WAFL.
Blindness is not only fuelled by hate, although I'd prefer to characterise the mugsta as a true fan that has been dudded by Australian footy & the Tas Govt.

I don't see the Tas Govt as dudding anyone. I see them as typical politicians trying to use various situations for their own best interests. Those 'interests', I'd argue, have been detrimental to Tasmanian football.

The recent exposure of the AFL & their deceitful & arrogant ways has at least caused the politicians to take note of the media & public disquiet over the footy problem here.

Where that new found 'interest' takes them will be interesting. I just hope they 'maintain' their recent engagement in the situation.

 

[The_Wookie]

Support, yes some much more than others it appears. 3/4 Northern 'expansion' clubs & probably at least 2 Suburban clubs wouldn't survive without big welfare handouts.

Swans would have gone years ago in the 90s without them, and Port were damn close in 2011-2014 - required millions from the AFL to be loaned to the SANFL to hand on to Port to keep them afloat. Even Adelaide were recieving assistance.

 

[madmug]

Swans would have gone years ago in the 90s without them, and Port were damn close in 2011-2014 - required millions from the AFL to be loaned to the SANFL to hand on to Port to keep them afloat. Even Adelaide were recieving assistance.

So what? The move of South Melbourne was a whole different ball game in those days anyway. Being 'South' probably saved them.

Are the 100 year old Suburban club handouts going to be paid back?

 

[The_Wookie]

So what? The move of South Melbourne was a whole different ball game in those days anyway. Being 'South' probably saved them.

Are the 100 year old Suburban club handouts going to be paid back?

No. and not one cent of them would have gone to a Tasmanian team either.

 

[Kwality]

I don't see the Tas Govt as dudding anyone. I see them as typical politicians trying to use various situations for their own best interests. Those 'interests', I'd argue, have been detrimental to Tasmanian football.

The recent exposure of the AFL & their deceitful & arrogant ways has at least caused the politicians to take note of the media & public disquiet over the footy problem here.

Where that new found 'interest' takes them will be interesting. I just hope they 'maintain' their recent engagement in the situation.

Dudded meaning politicians who are constantly cowtowing to the AFL in the hope Tas might get an AFL club, when IMHO all the AFL is after is Tas taxpayers money. Allows the AFL to move games out of the oversupplied Melbourne market (only games that wont draw crowds in Melbourne) & have someone else pay for it.

 

[madmug]

No. and not one cent of them would have gone to a Tasmanian team either.

Of course not. They 'invest' SFA here now so why would that change?.

The AFL are only interested in bleeding us dry. Just like the VFL did.

 

[madmug]

Dudded meaning politicians who are constantly cowtowing to the AFL in the hope Tas might get an AFL club, when IMHO all the AFL is after is Tas taxpayers money. Allows the AFL to move games out of the oversupplied Melbourne market (only games that wont draw crowds in Melbourne) & have someone else pay for it.

Cowtowing, they've done plenty of that. Sure that hasn't helped. But when you get told to support footy if you want a team, then it becomes clear that is an AFL lie.

The recent mess in the TSL & the AFL 'plan' to do SFA except ensure some sort of player drain to continue & not help in any other way, says it all. The pollies have slowly been woken up.

 

[Rabman]

Of course not. They 'invest' SFA here now so why would that change?.

The AFL are only interested in bleeding us dry. Just like the VFL did.

Did the exact same thing to SA and WA for years, thankfully both states got teams in before the damage was done.

 

[The_Wookie]

Did the exact same thing to SA and WA for years, thankfully both states got teams in before the damage was done.

Yes its Victorias fault no one else was paying their players enough.

 

[Rabman]

Yes its Victorias fault no one else was paying their players enough.

Let's ignore that there were approaches were made by east perth in 1980 and the SANFL in 1982 to put clubs in the VFL but the vics thought it cheaper to rape and pillage those leagues of there best players rather than embrace a national competition.

 

[The_Wookie]

Let's ignore that there were approaches were made by east perth in 1980 and the SANFL in 1982 to put clubs in the VFL but the vics thought it cheaper to rape and pillage those leagues of there best players rather than embrace a national competition.

Its not relevant. You cant claim the Vics arrived and pillaged everything, any more than you can blame Africans for the slave trade. No one forced these players to chase the money, cars and jobs on offer in Victoria. They went willingly and many never went back.

No one was ready for national competiton in 1980 or 1982. The WAFC werent going to let anyone go without a fight, the VFL were too busy trying to embed the Swans and dealing with ground rationalisation and the MCG/Waverly fracas, and the SANFL changed their minds throughout the 80s. None of the three major leagues had the money. And the ANFC was reliant on funds from all of them.

Until the VFL chose to go with a new structured Commission in 1985, the league itself was saying it didnt want to go national. Hell, the clubs, supporters and Vic government were largely opposed.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Did the exact same[? Disagree] thing to SA and WA for years, thankfully both states got teams in before the damage was done[Agree- & crucial difference to Tas.].

Prior to late 80's, the WAFL & SANFL still retained many/most great players/champions in their competitions (ie they never went, or only went later in their careers, to the VFL). Even after 1990, the WAFL & SANFL were high standard competitions attracting good crowds (but crowds are in a worrying major decline now).
The WAFL & SANFL, therefore, still retained great prestige/big crowds/ high standards/good elite jnr. pathways.

In Tas., however, they lost a large majority of their great players -thus the standard of their elite comps. plummeted. Without the fallback of their own AFL team, & the related glamour/expert coaching etc. filtering down to lower comps., Tas.GR AF was severely damaged. We must NEVER forget that Tas. produced 14 players drafted to the VFL in 1986.
The VFL/AFL can no longer disguise/bury/spin their way out of the destruction they have caused to Tas. elite standards, their senior comps., & to GR AF. The huge crowds, per capita, the TFL, NTFA, NWFU previously experienced made Tas., most likely, the most fanatical AF state in Aust.

 

[madmug]

Yes its Victorias fault no one else was paying their players enough.

Its the AFL's fault they show no care outside their bonuses. Their touted care of AF is a lie.

Those lucky to be under the AFL umbrella can't see through the vail of AFL BS, some just don't care.

 

[Kwality]

Yes its Victorias fault no one else was paying their players enough.

You know better than that, & like me, know Vic & WA were in the same boat up some 5hit creek, not sure of SA in the mid 80s, going OK as I remember.

 

[Kwality]

No one was ready for national competiton in 1980 or 1982. The WAFC werent going to let anyone go

WAFC formed 1989?