The AFL preaches equality but practices inequality

[Ron The Bear]

the problem with free agency is the compensation.
there shouldn't be any, if the salary cap is the levelling function.
dont offer gc pick 3, they will clearly match and then it is up to a fair trade to be worked out.
GC have to make a stand sometime, they threw away a top 5 pick for weller, surely this is the one they stand firm on and ask the tigers to front up with something or put him in the draft.

Then it would no longer be "free" agency. If GC insists on the best trade possible, Richmond will have to drop out of the race given their first pick may well be in the 20's. The player is then restricted to options he may not be keen on or has not even previously considered.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Tigs would of got pick 19 for Dusty if he did choose to leave as well
I don’t mind free agency but the compensation as it sits atm is a farce

That's where the restricted rules come into it..
Don't feel your compensation is good enough, match and force a trade.

But then you run the risk of the player actually staying and shafting your salary cap!..

There will never be a perfect system with Free Agency.

Remove the restricted component and just have a flat 10 year rule, move anywhere with no compensation and you'll see an increase of players from bottom 6 teams chasing success because "they've done their time"

Do you lose the ability to pick up a free agent if you make the top 4?.. Top 6..?

Even though Free Agency and equalisation are two completely different concepts, the Tom Lynch move has re-ignited the equalisation debate which always seems to go around in circles.

 

[estibador]

Equality of opportunity =/= Equality of outcome

/thread

That's why I thought this thread was going to be about the disparity in the prime time fixture allocation.

There's certainly no equality of opportunity there in this league.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Tigs would of got pick 19 for Dusty if he did choose to leave as well
I don’t mind free agency but the compensation as it sits atm is a farce

Clubs were put on notice by the Brisbane exodus, if they weren't already aware. Get your house in order. Look after your players.

 

[The Goon]

Don't forget Richmond is the only team ever to finish last and not get pick 1 in the draft. No one was pissing and moaning about it being unfair when that happened.

Huh? When was that? In 2010 West Coast finished last, and 2011 Gold Coast without receiving pick 1.

 

[Sterge]

Huh? When was that? In 2010 West Coast finished last, and 2011 Gold Coast without receiving pick 1.

GC and GWS's bullshit doesn't count everyone got ****ed by that

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Don't forget Richmond is the only team ever to finish last and not get pick 1 in the draft. No one was pissing and moaning about it being unfair when that happened.

...actually a lot of people did bitch and moan at the time.

 

[dave123]

Spot on, except none of those examples include a club winning a flag and then picking up a star the very next season! Not exactly comparing apples with apples.

Richmond will be an absolute powerhouse next season, makes me sick but i tip my hat to them... Brilliant list management.

It’s a midfield league though .....if two of their mids got injured they would be back in the pack

Riewoldt and rance are close to 30....they will come back to pack eventually

 

[Hallstrom]

The phrase i keep seeing come up is "good list management" which means either:
a) Convincing a number of players to play for less than they are worth with the carrot of a chance at a flag, or,
b) Front loading or back loading contracts
Both totally within the rules but don't really make the salary cap quite the equalisation measure it could be.

 

[dave123]

Tigs would of got pick 19 for Dusty if he did choose to leave as well
I don’t mind free agency but the compensation as it sits atm is a farce

Yeah it’s stupid ...how it needs to be done

The league or someone astute outside the AFL NEEDS to rank the player ...something like this....you get the drift ......

Star is worth top 5
A grader 6-15 ....
B grader 15....30

And so on .....also base it on games played ....and age

Work out a formula that’s fair .....

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

The AFL never wanted free agency.

Agreed, the AFLPA did. They are getting what they want. It is easier for players to move to the bigger and more successful clubs or those in their homeland.

The AFL equalises by arbirarily picking the compo.

Pick 3 for Lynch and 19 for Buddy.

 

[Port01]

Then it would no longer be "free" agency. If GC insists on the best trade possible, Richmond will have to drop out of the race given their first pick may well be in the 20's. The player is then restricted to options he may not be keen on or has not even previously considered.

he is a restricted free agent, not a free agent.
it should work like that.

 

[QuietB]

I am a bit sick of these inequality arguments. I just don't see it;

1. Hawks, Cats and Swans are no good anymore other than the fact they are the best run clubs in the comp with the best systems hanging on for as long as they can. But none of them are close to winning a premiership.
   • Their lists have holes everywhere
   • They are still losing star quality players year on year
2. The fact they can finish top 8 is because teams like Melbourne & GWS do not have the killer instinct required yet and teams like Port, & Adelaide cannot get their s**t together internally - I will concede Adelaide had some injury issues but it is still mostly internal stuff holding them back.
3. Dynasties are bloody hard but their very nature means they last a long time - a team that can achieve it has managed to acquire an enormous amount of talent and a well run club keeps that talent together. One you are good a well run club will stay good for a long time.
4. If you don't think dynaties are hard consider this;
   • The saints were the best team in the AFL for 2 years and didn't win anything.
   • Collingwood were on the verge of a dynasty and completely imploded
   • North had a dynasty and only won 2
   • Essendon are argued to be one of the greatest teams ever in 2000 and only won one
   • Richmond have been good for about 13-14 months - they are not even close to a dynasty yet. They are well placed though.
5. s**t clubs are s**t
   • 90% of the Saints problems are self inflicted
   • 90% of Carlton's problems are self inflicted
6. Things change
   • No one would have predicted Richmond would be where they are even 15 months ago. They have changed in a big hurry.
   • No one would have predicted Melbourne would be where they are going 3 years ago - they were a complete rabble.
   • No one would have predicted Brisbane would be looking at the future they currently are only 12 months ago.

Things change and they can change in a hurry. It has SFA to do with free agency though. Free agency can certainly help you if you are good, and it can certainly hurt you if you are bad.

It is not the reason you are bad though.

 

[kickazz]

Equality of opportunity =/= Equality of outcome

/thread

What do you mean by that in the context of the AFL and it's equalisation policy?

The AFL policy clearly has a focus on equalising outcomes; draft order, priority picks and even salary cap (although that is more on the opportunity end of things) point to that. The AFL think this is better for the health of the competition overall, rather than an EPL style situation where only four or five teams are ever really in it.

Free Agency, pushed by the players, substantially goes against all that the AFL was/is trying to do.

 

[M0557]

]The captain (and probably the best player) from the team placed 17th on the ladder is going to join the team that finished this season 1st on the ladder and are the reigning premiers.

How can the league spruik the idea of equalisation when the system currently allows the second worst team in the league to lose their most valuable asset and the best team in the league gains said asset without having to give anything back. I just don't get it.

YOU SEE, we dont give a farg about any other stinking team, reaming them is our job, ALL THIS FARGING TALK ABOUT BOTTOM TEAMS DIDNT EXIST WHEN TIGES WERE DOWN,THERES MORE TO COME ,SO PULL ON YOUR BIG PANTS AND ACCEPT THE TIGES NOW HAVE A MANDINGO LOVE MUSCLE AND WERE GOING TO USE IT EVERYWHERE.

 

[Rob]

Clubs are not stupid anymore

Most cap breaches are due to minor stuff ups now, hence they get SFA coverage

That's what makes me sceptical about how much effort the AFL puts into genuine auditing of it. Most of the serious breaches would be the use of third parties to avoid any trace of money coming through the club. That takes serious skill to pick up.
Clubs certainly aren't stupid, but people's careers are on the line here. If the difference between you keeping your million dollar job and losing it is siphoning additional payments to star players through club supporters, then there's a huge incentive to do that. And it's not always that black and white. What if a player gets an 'investment opportunity' with a huge guaranteed return? Who at the AFL is looking at that?

 

[Unknown Identity]

]The captain (and probably the best player) from the team placed 17th on the ladder is going to join the team that finished this season 1st on the ladder and are the reigning premiers.

How can the league spruik the idea of equalisation when the system currently allows the second worst team in the league to lose their most valuable asset and the best team in the league gains said asset without having to give anything back. I just don't get it.

YOU SEE, we dont give a farg about any other stinking team, reaming them is our job, ALL THIS FARGING TALK ABOUT BOTTOM TEAMS DIDNT EXIST WHEN TIGES WERE DOWN,THERES MORE TO COME ,SO PULL ON YOUR BIG PANTS AND ACCEPT THE TIGES NOW HAVE A MANDINGO LOVE MUSCLE AND WERE GOING TO USE IT EVERYWHERE.

What's a Mandingo?
Should be ok to google at work yeah..?

 

[Bojangles17]

I am a bit sick of these inequality arguments. I just don't see it;

1. Hawks, Cats and Swans are no good anymore other than the fact they are the best run clubs in the comp with the best systems hanging on for as long as they can. But none of them are close to winning a premiership.
   • Their lists have holes everywhere
   • They are still losing star quality players year on year
2. The fact they can finish top 8 is because teams like Melbourne & GWS do not have the killer instinct required yet and teams like Port, & Adelaide cannot get their s**t together internally - I will concede Adelaide had some injury issues but it is still mostly internal stuff holding them back.
3. Dynasties are bloody hard but their very nature means they last a long time - a team that can achieve it has managed to acquire an enormous amount of talent and a well run club keeps that talent together. One you are good a well run club will stay good for a long time.
4. If you don't think dynaties are hard consider this;
   • The saints were the best team in the AFL for 2 years and didn't win anything.
   • Collingwood were on the verge of a dynasty and completely imploded
   • North had a dynasty and only won 2
   • Essendon are argued to be one of the greatest teams ever in 2000 and only won one
   • Richmond have been good for about 13-14 months - they are not even close to a dynasty yet. They are well placed though.
5. s**t clubs are s**t
   • 90% of the Saints problems are self inflicted
   • 90% of Carlton's problems are self inflicted
6. Things change
   • No one would have predicted Richmond would be where they are even 15 months ago. They have changed in a big hurry.
   • No one would have predicted Melbourne would be where they are going 3 years ago - they were a complete rabble.
   • No one would have predicted Brisbane would be looking at the future they currently are only 12 months ago.

Things change and they can change in a hurry. It has SFA to do with free agency though. Free agency can certainly help you if you are good, and it can certainly hurt you if you are bad.

It is not the reason you are bad though.

I realise a lot of people wouldn’t know if they had a hole in their backside , however Richmond have made finals 5 of last 6 years with only 2 sides having won more games in that time , that hardly suggests we came from nowhere .

 

[Muddiemoose]

Seems to be a misconception that Richmond only decided to go after lynch in the past few months

Like other teams who are out to lure a big fish moves are being made in the background as far back as 3-4 years ago by list managers, player managers and club football departments

Clubs would be constantly looking at the age profile, talent and needs of thier lists and planing for 1, 2, 3 years and beyond and looking at the draft, free agency and trading to start putting plans in case for this

If you look at where Richmond were 3 years ago ago we were coming off a lack lustre 2016 campaign that saw us move on Tyrone Vicory and Liam McBean that created a need in our list for a key position forward in the 23+ age bracket

It’s at this point in time the initial talks with Toms management for a potential move would of started

Same would be said of Collingwood who are in a similar situation lacking talls and being right in the race for a key position player or the hawks a few years ago when Mitchell and O’mera were recruited just when they needed young midfielders

 

[Sir_Loin]

Can’t believe GC are going to get a compensation pick. Talk about unfair.

 

[Sir_Loin]

View attachment 555132

Something unrelated but I suspect that Darce is currently renting out his noggin to a raccoon

 

[Ned_Flanders]

That's what makes me sceptical about how much effort the AFL puts into genuine auditing of it. Most of the serious breaches would be the use of third parties to avoid any trace of money coming through the club. That takes serious skill to pick up.
Clubs certainly aren't stupid, but people's careers are on the line here. If the difference between you keeping your million dollar job and losing it is siphoning additional payments to star players through club supporters, then there's a huge incentive to do that. And it's not always that black and white. What if a player gets an 'investment opportunity' with a huge guaranteed return? Who at the AFL is looking at that?

Yes. Clubs are going to the AFL in advance to ensure all deals are kosher and per the rules.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Free agency isn't an equalisation measure. It's something that the AFL introduced because the players demanded it. Anyone who thought it would aid equalisation was daft.

However, there is an element of equalisation built into the compensation mechanism. The Suns will almost certainly get pick 3 as compensation. Contrast that with the compensation the Hawks got for a much better player (who was only a couple of years older than Lynch is now at the time he moved). You must be aware of it, because Hawks fans continue to remind BF at every opportunity.

It does somewhat irk me that the reigning premier can get a player like that for free but given my club got aforementioned ex-Hawk a few years back the exact same way, I have no reasonable basis on which to be irked.

I do have reasonable basis to be irked by the punitive trade ban that the AFL imposed on my club after acquiring aforementioned player, with them telling my club "You can't have everyone". The ability to recruit said player was taken as evidence of abuse of the allowance specific granted to alleviate the higher cost of living, despite no previous abuse being found. Yet now the Tigers are able to recruit a similarly high priced player, despite already having one of the top two or three most highly paid players on their list, and another handful who must be on pretty good money. It kinda makes a mockery of the conclusion that the AFL jumped to in respect of the Swans back in 2013.

The trade ban was ridiculous I couldn't believe it when the AFL announced it. Punitive measure against a specific club because the AFL cracked the sads that the best free agent didn't go to their preferred club (GWS).

 

[dave123]

LYNCH averages 2 goals per game

1.5 contested marks

Fumbles a lot ....is injury prone

Sorry if you want to pay him 1 million a season then your getting ripped off .......

 

[randyzany]

The captain (and probably the best player) from the team placed 17th on the ladder is going to join the team that finished this season 1st on the ladder and are the reigning premiers.

How can the league spruik the idea of equalisation when the system currently allows the second worst team in the league to lose their most valuable asset and the best team in the league gains said asset without having to give anything back. I just don't get it...

All this stems from the folly of the GC admin targeting a player that is synonymous with one of the oldest clubs in the world just because they were and still are fully funded by the league itself, not caring one iota about the damage their covetousness caused the Geelong Football Club. The geniuses running the GC decided it was a good idea to pay GAJ $10 million for 5 years whilst completely disregarding the basic needs of providing professional sporting facilities and equipment for their young drafted players.

I'd have sympathy for the GC if they had gone about building their list in the right way but they took short cuts (made callous decisions without considering the impact on other clubs) only available to them because Dimwit wanted his pet projects to succeed at all cost so the best I can now muster is to play the world's smallest violin.