List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

[Old navy]

All the draft picks in the world havent helped GC to date.
Pick 1 (Walsh) this year presents as the best/safest bet the GCFC might ever make.
What price a decades worth of leadership and excellence to GC ???

Yeah I’m with ya on that, picking 2-3 players that are massive flight risks and just hoping they can retain them is not what they need, if they could get a consensus pick one player that is making all the right nosies regarding retention, I don’t see how they could pass that up.

 

[HARKER]

Again I will say, Walsh is not the only player to have leadership qualities at the pointy end

But he's the best though and as for third tall defenders? That's all relative also, as who were this years Grand Finalists and who were their second-rated key position talls that required major attention that a 193cm Marchbank wouldn't not have been able to cover?

Not sure how many goriilas are left that require similar sized behemoths, to tend to.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Not with the talent this year

If that is the belief of recruiters, and if Smith is on the board at pick 6, we should swap our future first for pick 6 on draft night.

Take both Smith and Walsh in the draft.

Forget about saving draft picks for big fish.

I'll give you the tip. GWS will target our better players in any transaction involving a big fish. We'll be in the same situation as what Hawthorn were in trading off Ryan Burton for Wingard.

Not interested in GWS demanding a top 5 pick, Paddy Dow and Sam Walsh for Josh Kelly.

 

[Brutalitops]

If that is the belief of recruiters, and if Smith is on the board at pick 6, we should swap our future first for pick 6 on draft night.

Take both Smith and Walsh in the draft.

Forget about saving draft picks for big fish.

I'll give you the tip. GWS will target our better players in any transaction involving a big fish. We'll be in the same situation as what Hawthorn were in trading off Ryan Burton for Wingard.

Not interested in GWS demanding a top 5 pick, Paddy Dow and Sam Walsh for Josh Kelly.

Cant trade our future first as we traded our future second for Setterfield. We can only trade our 2019 first round pick in 2019.

 

[BlueView]

Oh really, name the contenders for me

Who’s the red nut one that plays good footy?

Cant trade our future first as we traded our future second for Setterfield. We can only trade our 2019 first round pick in 2019.

Can apply to the AFL for dispensation.. if they weren’t nimrods which “they are” it should go through

 

[bmaurizio]

Cant trade our future first as we traded our future second for Setterfield. We can only trade our 2019 first round pick in 2019.

We trade our future 1st and 3rd as we have 2 future 3rd rounders, for a top 6 pick 2018 and a future 2nd.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

We trade our future 1st and 3rd as we have 2 future 3rd rounders, for a top 6 pick 2018 and a future 2nd.

who exactly is giving up a top 6 pick? It won’t be Gold Coast, they’ve got this unbelievable chance to kick their restart off brilliantly. They’re not gonna mess with that

 

[Arr0w]

Its not just "our 2 first rounders"
Its pick 1 this year who they would use on a potential future long term captain they are desperate for along with a likely top 4 pick next year.
If you think that is unders for 3&6 ... well ...
If you choose to cast dispertions on the lads word re committing to the club that drafts him ... well ...

Think you have gone back to the "well" one too many times. I am not the one casting aspersions on Walsh's leadership qualities, it is you that seems to think other highly touted youngsters, lack the same attributes.

So, let's go back to your initial, Carlton bias trade suggestion, that GC should trade picks 3 & 6 for pick 1. Forget the players, for one moment, as no club would give up 2, top 6 picks, for pick 1, alone.

Careful holding your breath on that deal

Noah Anderson and Hayden Young

So I take it, you think we will, finish in the bottom 2 next year? I do rate those two lads, but neither have produced the output of Rozee, Caldwell, Walsh and Smith, at the same age

But he's the best though and as for third tall defenders? That's all relative also, as who were this years Grand Finalists and who were their second-rated key position talls that required major attention that a 193cm Marchbank wouldn't not have been able to cover?

Not sure how many goriilas are left that require similar sized behemoths, to tend to.

Walsh might be the best leader, but it is a reach to suggest he is so far ahead of any other top 10 this year.

Surely you are not comparing the size of Marchbank to McGovern, Schofield, Barrass. It has nothing to do with, gorillas, it is having options to play on the likes of a Dixon, Lynch, Daniher, Kennedy, Vardy like players as well as 3rd talls. At this stage, Marchbank is a 3rd tall, in the foreseeable future.

If that is the belief of recruiters, and if Smith is on the board at pick 6, we should swap our future first for pick 6 on draft night.

Take both Smith and Walsh in the draft.

Forget about saving draft picks for big fish.

I'll give you the tip. GWS will target our better players in any transaction involving a big fish. We'll be in the same situation as what Hawthorn were in trading off Ryan Burton for Wingard.

Not interested in GWS demanding a top 5 pick, Paddy Dow and Sam Walsh for Josh Kelly.

I would be more than happy to exchange our future 1st for pick 6 this year, but another club would have to get involved, given AFL requirements on future picks

Who’s the red nut one that plays good footy?

You mean Rowell? I would be surprised if he was in the top 10 next year, let alone a first rounder

who exactly is giving up a top 6 pick? It won’t be Gold Coast, they’ve got this unbelievable chance to kick their restart off brilliantly. They’re not gonna mess with that

This !!

 

[Red Bull]

Think you have gone back to the "well" one too many times. I am not the one casting aspersions on Walsh's leadership qualities, it is you that seems to think other highly touted youngsters, lack the same attributes.

So, let's go back to your initial, Carlton bias trade suggestion, that GC should trade picks 3 & 6 for pick 1. Forget the players, for one moment, as no club would give up 2, top 6 picks, for pick 1, alone.

Careful holding your breath on that deal

Never ever suggested you doubted Walsh's leadership qualities.
I questioned whether you doubted his word re committing to the club that drafts him.

Never commented one way or another on any other lads leadership qualities.

Never ever suggested GC SHOULD trade 3&6 for 1.
Suggested they might CONSIDER it.

You cannot "forget" the player at the heart of that deal as he is the central reason it was floated.

Those are the facts mate ... twist away if you will ...

 

[Arr0w]

Don't back track now, "might" was never in your vernacular

 

[Red Bull]

Don't back track now, "might" was never in your vernacular

Lol

 

[HARKER]

Walsh might be the best leader, but it is a reach to suggest he is so far ahead of any other top 10 this year.

Surely you are not comparing the size of Marchbank to McGovern, Schofield, Barrass. It has nothing to do with, gorillas, it is having options to play on the likes of a Dixon, Lynch, Daniher, Kennedy, Vardy like players as well as 3rd talls. At this stage, Marchbank is a 3rd tall, in the foreseeable future.

I don't know that Walsh makes for the best leader, but the noises come across as though he may make for a pretty good one.

Just saying that we may not need 2 gorilla-killers. Jones gets first dibs, Weitering has to be next in line to develop accordingly and then we have Macreadie, who also has to get stronger as he develops.

Reckon Marchbank should be able to accept responsibility on a Darling, CCurnow and even Jack Riewoldt should the situation present.

 

[Arr0w]

I don't know that Walsh makes for the best leader, but the noises come across as though he may make for a pretty good one.

Just saying that we may not need 2 gorilla-killers. Jones gets first dibs, Weitering has to be next in line to develop accordingly and then we have Macreadie, who also has to get stronger as he develops.

Reckon Marchbank should be able to accept responsibility on a Darling, CCurnow and even Jack Riewoldt should the situation present.

Harker, you know as well as I do, that the draft is not a vehicle for short term needs, it is all about the medium to long term. You don't wait for Jones to be delisted, before recruiting a replacement. If the club as identified a player late in the draft, or a trade target next year, as a replacement, that is smart list management.

This originally stemmed from, if we traded pick 1 for 2 picks in the top 6 and or top 10, and who could be targeted. Not suggesting it should be Smith and B. King exclusively, as the likes of Caldwell, Rozee, Rankine, would also be considerations.

Those that have Walsh ahead of any 2 players in the top 10, perhaps need to reevaluate the talent

 

[HARKER]

Harker, you know as well as I do, that the draft is not a vehicle for short term needs, it is all about the medium to long term. You don't wait for Jones to be delisted, before recruiting a replacement. If the club as identified a player late in the draft, or a trade target next year, as a replacement, that is smart list management.

This originally stemmed from, if we traded pick 1 for 2 picks in the top 6 and or top 10, and who could be targeted. Not suggesting it should be Smith and B. King exclusively, as the likes of Caldwell, Rozee, Rankine, would also be considerations.

Those that have Walsh ahead of any 2 players in the top 10, perhaps need to reevaluate the talent

Not sure how that notion entered the conversation. I may have missed something.

In regards to taking any two players inside the top ten is better than for taking one player alone?
I think it's all relative and sometimes the right puzzle piece can be of more value than for two that you just can't use to fit into the puzzle.

For instance we may all get excited for getting two Kings ahead of one Walsh and it may prove to be a shrewd move, but how much better will we be with those two players than for the right one at the right time?
It's debatable but I'd sooner improve something by one 20% than for two situations at 10%. As I said, it's debatable .

 

[Arr0w]

Not sure how that notion entered the conversation. I may have missed something.

In regards to taking any two players inside the top ten is better than for taking one player alone?
I think it's all relative and sometimes the right puzzle piece can be of more value than for two that you just can't use to fit into the puzzle.

For instance we may all get excited for getting two Kings ahead of one Walsh and it may prove to be a shrewd move, but how much better will we be with those two players than for the right one at the right time?
It's debatable but I'd sooner improve something by one 20% than for two situations at 10%. As I said, it's debatable .

Given the state of a developing list, I still believe we have holes to fill. But I do understand the rational regarding one "Walsh", versus say a Smith and Rankine/Rozee/King, personally for our list, I would select the latter

 

[BluesRule]

Given the state of a developing list, I still believe we have holes to fill. But I do understand the rational regarding one "Walsh", versus say a Smith and Rankine/Rozee/King, personally for our list, I would select the latter

Very debatable - but I would prefer one really elite mid for CFC list needs.

Essendon and Collingwood both gave up two first round draft picks (10 years + service) for one elite mid from GWS (6yrs+ service) ie. 20 years of first round talent for 6 years.

I am looking for the best quality we can get across only 22 players in their ideal position.

 

[JustaBattler]

Gobbeledegook fellas. Leadership in high school kids ? really....

Getting picked as a Captain or a leader in a high school team local/representative doesn't matter- is about who the coach likes. Walsh's 'leadership' skills who many are touting in here might be Walsh has more advanced 'manage up skills' than next kid - says nothing about anything much in context of a football Club - may actually be a negative even - when high school favouratism isn't instantly translated into favouratism at Club.

the draft is an educated 'punt' - nothing more nothing less- kids are still growing and developing physically/mentally/emotionally and the biggest factor will be 'nurture' not nature- because by definition all the kids in the draft are elite athletes - for their age - that ticks the 'nature' box.

People are (rightly) cautious about rating bigger bodied kids too highly because they may have simply exploited their relatively advanced physical size against short people - but same can be true of small bodied kids as well - often they stay small bodied and their relative stamina /speed advantages fade into irrelevancy as other players surpass them...

Getting picks like Williamson/McCreadie/Garlett/TDK 'right' has far more implications for Club success than getting a top 5 pick 'right'...

Can't wait for Carlton to never have a top12 pick for a decade!!!

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Gobbeledegook fellas. Leadership in high school kids ? really....

Getting picked as a Captain or a leader in a high school team local/representative doesn't matter- is about who the coach likes. Walsh's 'leadership' skills who many are touting in here might be Walsh has more advanced 'manage up skills' than next kid - says nothing about anything much in context of a football Club - may actually be a negative even - when high school favouratism isn't instantly translated into favouratism at Club.

the draft is an educated 'punt' - nothing more nothing less- kids are still growing and developing physically/mentally/emotionally and the biggest factor will be 'nurture' not nature- because by definition all the kids in the draft are elite athletes - for their age - that ticks the 'nature' box.

People are (rightly) cautious about rating bigger bodied kids too highly because they may have simply exploited their relatively advanced physical size against short people - but same can be true of small bodied kids as well - often they stay small bodied and their relative stamina /speed advantages fade into irrelevancy as other players surpass them...

Getting picks like Williamson/McCreadie/Garlett/TDK 'right' has far more implications for Club success than getting a top 5 pick 'right'...

Can't wait for Carlton to never have a top12 pick for a decade!!!

The point you make about leadership as a kid is spot on with Weitering imo.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I don't buy into this entire super draft hype we hear but I was talking to a parent of one of the Pioneers yesterday and he was telling me Caldwell is almost unanimously more highly rated than Dow by people evolved. If true it could be a pretty special group

 

[Arr0w]

Very debatable - but I would prefer one really elite mid for CFC list needs.

Essendon and Collingwood both gave up two first round draft picks (10 years + service) for one elite mid from GWS (6yrs+ service) ie. 20 years of first round talent for 6 years.

I am looking for the best quality we can get across only 22 players in their ideal position.

I am not talking about trading out draft picks, go back over the history of the draft, 1 selection versus multiple picks in the tip 10.

Flag winning sides over recent times, don't have multiple elite midfielders

 

[La Dispute]

There’s no guarantee Walsh will want to stay at GC either if that remarkable trade suggestion goes ahead. You can have all the leadership potential in the world, but if it’s not a place he wants to be he will request a trade home in a few years.

It's debatable but I'd sooner improve something by one 20% than for two situations at 10%. As I said, it's debatable .

And I’d argue we’d be improving (going by your metrics) two situations by 20%, and I rate Smith higher than Walsh, so it’s even more than that.

 

[dlb99]

Id seriously consider it if i were GC.
With their unique circumstances , Walsh delivers them everything they need.
A leader and A grader for a decade as opposed to just another pick that may well end up like so many others previously ...
The Weller deal shows the value of retention to GC.
Walsh and Lukosius wouldnt be the hardest pill GC have ever had to swallow ...

We finished with 2 wins this year.
Sam Walsh fits a need we have.
Stuff Gold Coast and their needs.

Jet. Stop shopping for options and take the boy. Even used his left, showed a change of pace and strength overhead. Answers questions I feel. Need overs in any trade.

Yes.

How about we draft Sam Walsh.

Wow, what a thought.

 

[dlb99]

I am not talking about trading out draft picks, go back over the history of the draft, 1 selection versus multiple picks in the tip 10.

Flag winning sides over recent times, don't have multiple elite midfielders

Don't or do?

Plenty of elite midfielders listed below:

Lions (early 2000s): Voss, Black, Aker, Lappin
Eagles (mid 2000s): Judd, Cousins, Kerr, Cox
Geelong (late 2000s): Ablett, Bartel, Selwood
Hawks (early 2010s): Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis

Carlton (early 2020s): Cripps, Walsh, Dow, Setterfield

 

[Arr0w]

Don't or do?

Plenty of elite midfielders listed below:

Lions (early 2000s): Voss, Black, Aker, Lappin
Eagles (mid 2000s): Judd, Cousins, Kerr, Cox
Geelong (late 2000s): Ablett, Bartel, Selwood
Hawks (early 2010s): Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis

Carlton (early 2020s): Cripps, Walsh, Dow, Setterfield

8 + years ago are recent? That is funny

Try the past three years

 

[dlb99]

8 + years ago are recent? That is funny

Try the past three years

Why?

Bulldogs won once and missed the finals the next 2 years.
Richmond won last year and missed the grand final this year (the other GF team missed the 8).
I fully expect West Coast not to repeat next year.

Meanwhile those other teams, which you dismiss, had long periods of sustained success in their eras.

I don't get your point, you wish not to have multiple elite midfielders?