Game Day JLT2 - Carlton vs Collingwood - Monday 11th March 2.10PM @ Morwell - Final Team Post #777

[F_therest]

[deep breath]




Thank you. Grundy copped a knock to the quad and took it easy, though you've got the TOG wrong: Phillips managed just the 76%, which means he was roasted, rolled and put in a keepsake box by Grundy.

They were awful numbers for a solo ruck, and what's more I genuinely enjoyed McKay's pressure around the ball when he took a turn in the ruck, because he actually won clearances and laid tackles. Phillips' greatest defensive contribution was not letting his opponent outmark him when our mids were kicking to him. The Phillips experiment has to end, because he can't contribute any way other than a solo ruck, and he's clearly not fit enough to be a solo ruck.

Outside of the centre bounce, he's a ******* mirage, and I don't understand how people can think a player that can't impact the game properly for 70-80% of the time they're involved in the play should be commended for their performance, or even selected. Rucks got away with this shit in another era, but guys like Fitzpatrick, Allen, Madden and Nicholls must look at this bloke and shake their heads.

Forget the ungainly style (even though it goes some way to explaining his deficiencies), he's empirically shit. In an era of the club when we're working so hard on improving the list, I look at him and wonder what miracle they're expecting out of his endurance base and lower body strength that allows him to have more than 4 moments a game in the season proper. He should never have been signed for this year, and I'm ******* sick of people wringing their hands as though I'm automatically digging into his character. It's a professional sport, and while he might attempt to maintain himself professionally, the expansion of and output produced in his game are manifestly inadequate compared to his peers.





Nope: they played 4 on the bench, and subbed out Crocker and Elliot for Howe and Tyler Brown. There might have been a small 10 minute overlap in the 3rd quarter (which is the intelligent thing to do in case someone twinges a muscle in the warm up), but aside from that they did not actively run a 6-man bench.



He's been here 4 years, he should be at the peak of his powers. I get that his leap teases people into thinking he can dominate, but hitouts to advantage at the centre bounce is such a small aspect of the game in terms of his overall responsibilities, that he should be receiving such glowing reviews.

This, and Bolton's obsession with trying to play three or more talls up forward at all costs, are the things that will probably get him fired. You determine who the intelligent and capable players are on your list, and you form a game plan around them, you do not pick ancient archetypes and act like you're re-inventing the wheel.

In fact, here we go: I always forget Phillips is a Tassie boy. Now it makes sense.


I think he looks much more mobile, and the only way I can justify some of his and Garlett's defensive lapses is if they were told to swap defensive roles at packs in order to give them some match hardening for when they need to pinch hit as small and medium defenders respectively.

Lol you just called Phillips 'empirically shit' and don't think he should have been signed this season...that's just so wrong and backs up my assertion you have a weird agenda against him.

He actually does more around the ground than his stats suggest...i see him pressuring the opposition, knocking the ball forward etc.
And just last week against Essendon he took about 5 intercept marks.

And Grundy is the best ruckman in the game alongside Gawn so...not sure what you're expecting.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Your interpretation of list management analytics (aka moneyball) is horse shit. The goal is to understand the core objectives of the sport, how that can be won in the context of a given game plan (or game plans that an organisation is happy to play using its current or future resources) and attempt to describe this using statistical analysis.

The end point is to deliver maximum value from a player, and - if needed - to find grossly undervalued players from external sources and get results out of them. What is seemingly being underestimated with Phillips is his total lack of consistency both on-field and in terms of games played per season.

This is now his 4th season with us, and he looks no better off than when he started with us, nor any better than his time at GWS. For all intents and purposes, he seems to have developed absolutely nothing about his game in 8 years in the system. This is not just an observation, it's an empirical (read: statistical) fact. When your eyes match the numbers, you have to realise that you cannot pick a bloke for fleeting moments when he flounders 5-8 times out of 10.

That we as an organisation value the idea of centre bounce hitouts to advantage so highly as to give this guy a 2-year contract twice is the very definition of a collective delusion, and still looks ridiculous after the rules were adjusted in his favour. What's more, in that same amount of time we could have acquired a youngster and well and truly developed them to perform at least as good as he has on the aggregate, for at least as much as he has, likely better.

There is no on-field performance-based argument that justifies Phillips being on the list after the 2017 season, assuming we even needed to include him in that original GWS trade. The entire machination of his acquisition points to a complete lack of creative thinking when contrasted against other ruck acquisitions at the time, and our own use of Casboult and Gorringe.

Yip … Phillips is shitter than Lobbe …..

 

[agro]

Couldn't agree more. The guy has been a liability for years. Watched the game today, he was responsible for countless turnovers. Whether they be by directly kicking to the opposition or by sh!tting himself when put under the slightest pressure.

Horrible to watch. So frustrating, but he'll still have countless apologists here making excuses for him.

And Simpson the same, torched us on numerous occasions with his disposal by both hand and foot.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

After the pissing contest.

Phillips worked well in the middle, he’s all arms and legs, got Grundy late, certainly ran the game out.

Wasn’t expecting him to go Gary Dempsey, but negated Grundys influence, and got him with a nice clip.

More than handy 2nd ruck.

 

[Blue and Blue]

TBH Polson always looks out of his depth.

Has more size now and he's running pretty well, but disposal still sloppy and he makes some poor decisions.

That moment he had the ball at half forward and blindly kicked into our forward line straight to the Collingwood player even though we had a 2 on 1 was a shocker. No composure.

I'm also yet to see him do anything special around goal, like a quick snap or crumbing goal like Cunners has shown. Have to be able to do that imo to be a dangerous small forward, he's just too limited.

Cripps did it too. And others. Polson was fine doing what hes asked to do. Running as hard at the end of the game at opposition players as he was at the start forcing the loose ball. He is fit and strong. Not far off a stellar game in my opinion.

 

[Eiffel 65]

TBH Polson always looks out of his depth.

Has more size now and he's running pretty well, but disposal still sloppy and he makes some poor decisions.

That moment he had the ball at half forward and blindly kicked into our forward line straight to the Collingwood player even though we had a 2 on 1 was a shocker. No composure.

I'm also yet to see him do anything special around goal, like a quick snap or crumbing goal like Cunners has shown. Have to be able to do that imo to be a dangerous small forward, he's just too limited.

We used 22 players today. The remainder of our extended bench didn't get a run.

I feel that 21 of the starting 22 are settled. One of Gibbons or Polson will retain their spot. The other will play in the VFL.

One of Fasolo or JSOS will get the nod to play against Richmond.

I don't feel that Polson and Gibbons can play in the same team yet.

 

[Jimmae]

Lol you just called Phillips 'empirically shit' and don't think he should have been signed this season...that's just so wrong and backs up my assertion you have a weird agenda against him.

Show working. Like ****ing any body of work that supports your assertion. I'll wait.

He actually does more around the ground than his stats suggest...i see him pressuring the opposition, knocking the ball forward etc.
And just last week against Essendon he took about 5 intercept marks.

That the only thing he can do is shuffle back and sit in the hole in an era of rucks that are either mobile, positionally dynamic or completely dominate their direct opponent speaks to how antiquated a play style he has. You're out of your gourd.

And Grundy is the best ruckman in the game alongside Gawn so...not sure what you're expecting.

That doesn't excuse his performance. No one expects him to win the match up, they expect him to contribute more than dinking the ball with his palm 30 times a game, especially when 5 of those could have been marks, and another 5 should have been clear advantage hitouts.

 

[Jimmae]

After the pissing contest.

Phillips worked well in the middle, he’s all arms and legs, got Grundy late, certainly ran the game out.

Wasn’t expecting him to go Gary Dempsey, but negated Grundys influence, and got him with a nice clip.

More than handy 2nd ruck.

Grundy played the game out with a corked quad.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Grundy played the game out with a corked quad.

Bully for him.

Phillips got him twice.

 

[Arr0w]

Phillips had 4 touches, 4

First half he either went up too early or run past the flight in every marking contest, he did adjust in the second half, but for a guy with his height and leap he doesn't take enough marks

What was worse, he gave Grundy far too much room

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

The CFC would have walked away from this game having ticked off most of what it tried to achieve and importantly the one thing they didn't want - To be blown off the park. The good news stories carry on for another week, leading into the season proper.

Who really knows about what may come about in round one and thereafter, but there has been goodwill and an eagerness for CFC supporters to become closer connected to their club. That's a great start point and one that can be built upon.

Agree with all this.

The only thing I would counsel is patience. We are at least 2 seasons from having a midfield that is both physically able and structured enough to make the 8

 

[Blue and Blue]

I liked Phllips game. Rucked all day on his own basically and went up and down the ground like Kareem Abdul Jabbar. They are getting him match fit so he can play consistently. Not worrying about his game as much as his body right now.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Plowman is an interesting one. If we had everyone fit he would be squeezed out of my 22.

He is best 22 at the moment but thats due to injuries.

Simpson Jones Newman
Marchbank Weitering Doc

With Willo as the 7th defender.

If Plowman is pushed out of the side then we are in bloody good nick.

 

[gardiner stand]

They worked it out better in the second half but earlier in the game cwood was walking the ball out with very little pressure but we did improve. That’s gotta be fixed otherwise our defence is in trouble.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Phillips had 4 touches, 4

First half he either went up too early or run past the flight in every marking contest, he did adjust in the second half, but for a guy with his height and leap he doesn't take enough marks

What was worse, he gave Grundy far too much room

Room, granted.

Around the ground, c’mon if it was Krooz he’d win one per centres of the week.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Re Phillips, we can argue about his effort and whether he was ‘ok’. I didn’t mind his game tbh and believe he provides adequate depth in our current situation.

However, not sure that’s the real question. The real question is whether you think we can win a flag with Phillips as our no 1 ruck. If you believe we can, I would politely suggest that you need your head examined. We need to start focusing on the horizon a bit more.

 

[Arr0w]

Room, granted.

Around the ground, c’mon if it was Krooz he’d win one per centres of the week.

MK would have made more of an impact after the bounce, you know that Stig.

I actually like Phillips, is a beautiful tap ruckman, but offers very little around the ground against the best dozen ruckmen in the league

 

[murphster]

13 contested possessions to Walsh. equal top with Crippa!

Murph with 7 tackles.

SpS and Dow 11 contested as well much better spread than Cripps having 20.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Plowman looked better as the game went on...coming back from an injury layoff and given no help at times out there today..left one out too often yet that seemed to be the plan with Simmo chasing the ball

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

From space we all live on a BLUE planet.

 

[BJuddy]

Far out Polson has some wheels. That play in the 3rd where he blew off 3-4 pie boys was awesome,... Then he kicked it

Thank God we still got the goal.

Just would love for things to click for him.

Pressure and speed are things we can definitely use.

Just every now and again you see something from him and think maybe there is something there, but most of the time it seems like he is soooooo far out of his depth.

Last year v ADE I really thought the penny may have dropped, but no, not yet... but hopefully as I want him to make it.

 

[Blueboys7]

Kerr / Stocker - Didn't see any game time, I'm not sure why we'd bother including them rather than giving them full games at VFL level.

I assume they were there simply as back up.

It seems as if we went with what will most likely be the Rd 1 team and they wanted to play it under normal season conditions with a 4 man bench.

 

[kjr8]

Phillips had 4 touches, 4

First half he either went up too early or run past the flight in every marking contest, he did adjust in the second half, but for a guy with his height and leap he doesn't take enough marks

What was worse, he gave Grundy far too much room

Not sure pointing out marking, or lack thereof, makes it a compelling case for Kruz to come in, specially after 6-8 months of no game time.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Arr0w]

Grundy is the better player. Hit-outs 32 to 26

Phillips didn't have a great game but would have Lobbe or Kreuzer been better against one of the two leading ruck-men going around?

Yes

 

[Arr0w]

Not sure pointing out marking, or lack thereof, makes it a compelling case for Kruz to come in, specially after 6-8 months of no game time.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Not suggesting he should, but when fit, he is a clearly ahead of Phillips