Autopsy Rd 7 vs North. Terrible loss, poor skills, never in it.

[gandaal]

Your point was that Dow wont ever be a good kick - but I've never seen Levi kick a running 50 meter goals after running through 4 or 5 blokes either. Too early to make a Dow cant kick call.

I have. It was from the boundary too. The look of dumbfounded shock from Ratts in the coaches box was priceless.

 

[Jabba73]

I’ve worn the navy Blue I have more rights than you, I’ve broken bones, I’ve bled and ive cried so i’ll vent and splutter any way I like on bigfooty or at the ground.

No one has any more right than anyone else. Being a member for x number of years doesn’t make your point any more valid than someone who has never been to a game, unless the point is valid.

Having played the game gives you some extra perspective, doesn’t make a wrong point right.

Judge the contribution on the content, not on whether the poster has played the game, been a member for years or any other random criteria.

 

[Jabba73]

well that's that caught up - learned nothing but didn't expect to - the same posters that make sense still make sense and that's why they call us the blues...

What about the rest of us?

 

[carlton2dabone]

Not sure why you or anyone else goes back to rattan or any other coach

Just stick to this rebuild

Tell me, how were the Demond performing in the first couple of week after

Hawks game, after they hit the lead by 3 odd goals, he released players to more attacking roles and nearly won the game

First one: I go back to the Ratten days because my contention is that as a club we continue to suffer from the same problems that we suffered from for decades even with new coach’s and new talented playing lists over the years.

It should be a standard non negotiable, put in the required effort and running, not players choosing when and where they’d like to do it like today.

Second one: that’s exactly my point. We were up by 5-6 goals against the Hawks, then the Hawks adjusted at half time and it took until the Hawks hit the lead by 3 goals with about 5min left in the game before Bolton himself adjusted by releasing players to be more attacking.

What’s funny is that the reason we got 6 goals up against the hawks in the first place was because he allowed players to be attacking from the start of the game, yet for some reason then forced the players back into their shells second half which allowed the Hawks to comeback and hit the lead by 3 goals before going back to attacking in the dying minutes of the game as you said.

So yeah you are right, he did change something during the Game but I wouldn’t use that game as a positive of adjusting properly

 

[Judds Junk]

good to see Phillips take a couple of grabs in the 2nd half.. but my goodness was he destroyed for the majority of the game. Given Kreuzer's inability to stay on the track and with TDK still a while off we have to find a better option then Phillips and Lobbe.

Cleary this was not our only problem today... but Goldy being able to just do as he pleased put us on the back foot straight away

I'd say Fisher, Weitering, Cripps, Walsh and JSOS were reasonable... Daisy busted his gut at every contest.. apart from that, the cupboard was bare.

 

[boltsbabyblues]

Either he comes out and says the body is done and retires OR he gets dropped.

If the body is done (which I think is probqbly the case), he should move on.

If its not a body issue, then his play is bordering on disgraceful and should be dropped.

And...it hurts. I've had number 3 on my Guernsey for 10 years. I don't have an agenda. I've not been against the guy, but please stop flogging this dead horse.

I've never had any players number on my guernsey, the players individually mean nothing to me. It's the jumper i care about. I'm a carlton supporter, not an individual player supporter


A lot of people would find that cynical i guess, I've had two soft spots over the years, Kouta, and Fev. Fev was my favourite hands down

 

[boltsbabyblues]

To top my day off, my sciatica came back on the drive home and my back, hip and glute feel like they are being stabbed.

Not unlike how this team stabbed me in the heart today.

Sit on a cricket ball

 

[boltsbabyblues]

Bit too easy of a solution, we were solid in the games without Kruz at the start of the year, today was something else.

Yeh, it was that cooked zone and slow boundary line keepings off s**t gameplan

Got me ****ed why he keeps at it. It's his own very waterloo. Oh well, I'm going to be upseg if we turf him, but he won't just let them play.

We have some of the best young talent in the country, 15 round 1 picks, harry Mckay and charlie up forward, playing the bottom team, and he opted for zone defense and slow play......... lol

 

[Iamcarlton]

Takes kids different amount of time to find their feet. LOB will dangerous once the coaches release him

I agree in time he'll be a decent player for us but atm he's just pushed off the ball far too easily imo , I can't imagine it would be a great thing for his confidence for this to be happening as often as it is .

Lochie is a perfect example of a club that has its rebuild slanted far too much in development mode and the future and too far away from the present .

Atm not too sure of the options but since we lost mature bodies to injury we needed mature bodies to come in .
Given the injuries of last week and the experience and mature bodies out possibly one of the the last players I would be promoting is a debutant who to my eye looked like he was cooked 5 minutes into the game .

When we get injuries the default option just seems to be oh well just play the kids .
There aren't many options but Kennedy imo is certainly one that should have played this game .

 

[Gethelred]

Topical as he was one of our triers today but does SOS?

Jack's effort levels and strength are allowing him to break free of a tackle - one of the rare players in the team at the moment who can - and his disposal is excellent. Not really comparable, IMO.

 

[Iamcarlton]

A ruckman is the difference. Phillips cant do it. Lobbe cant do it. Kreuzer cant do it often enough but when he does its a whole different team.
Somehow we have to find one that gives our midfield the ball.
Fix that and all the rest falls into place.

Bit of a concern if our fortunes depend on one player ?

 

[Iamcarlton]

The thing I question most is whether SOS could have brought in a few average mature players in the last few years via trade.

O’Shea and that bunch were terrible but prior to that the likes of Wright, Kerridge, Lamb etc played and had their moments. In that 2017 seaosn where we actually won a couple of games we had more senior players and guys like SPS, Weitering etc weren’t left exposed.

I watched us today and I was reminded of Melbourne when they had all those young kids. A lot of young kids left exposed and with little to no senior talent playing alongside them.

It isn’t always as dire as today but I still think it’s fairly problematic.

We need to start winning games. It’s simple. If we want to add some experience that’s the best way to have players wanting to come.

I worry that some of these players may have their development affected.

Think you make some good points in general here especially regarding development and players like Lamb and Kerridge .
Imo Lamb would be exactly the type of mongrel player you would bring into the side this week after losing the players we did for this game .
Lamb wasn't the greatest player but he was at least a body that was mature and fit given how young we are imo we could have got a year or 2 more out of him .
Also when you take into consideration we have basically project players in Cottrel and Owies on the list and still having Lebois running around there's a good argument we've cut too deep into the list by cutting the likes of Lamb and Kerridge a year or 2 early .

 

[VeinGlorious]

Now, that I can sympathise with.

I don't agree with you, GS. I respect your opinions about footy - when you're calm - as you offer insights most have never had. I don't agree with you about Murphy, nor do I think LOB should be written off at 19.

But days like today are ****. They hurt and they burn, and most of all it's us - the fans - that seem to be the ones who suffer the most. We're stuck here, without ability to change things or to do anything other than to burn and seethe, or sit with our heads in our hands. I absolutely get that. But I have to believe, have to know that things can and they will improve, but even if they don't, I'm here and so are you.

We're the fans of the Carlton football club. This is our cross to bear. I'll stand next to you, and you next to me.

Tomorrow's another day, mate. See you then.

POTM

 

[VeinGlorious]

Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer should have been canned and traded the moment this rebuild was put in place. Said it at the time and still believe it now.

Kreuzer is heart and soul. Injury prone yes but when fit is our most important player along with Cripps

 

[KnobHead]

Kreuzer is heart and soul. Injury prone yes but when fit is our most important player along with Cripps

Kruezer’s first game for 2019 was the Dogs, which we won. He played the first half against Hawks, when we were up by 5 goals, then has been injured since.



On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[__Bobcat__]

Didn't a 2018 premiership ruckman take the money and run to PA?
Great call that one, so obviously money talks.
A apparently we have a great list of young players coming through, and he could be the last piece in the puzzle.
Far better than chasing a small forward.

this is the Missing link to the Puzzle.

Got plenty of backs, got depth in the midfield, don't need small forwards, (far canal ) can't be tat hard to play front n centre..

Rucks Rucks Rucks.
is what we need ..

id even pony up for Goldstein..

 

[Gavstar]

I was told that Walls has come to the club as a mentor to support Bolton. Its something the club felt was needed after Neil Craig's departure a couple of years ago. This is from a friend who worked as a statistician with Parkin at the club.

GS is right Wall’s was put in to satisfy the baying of some powerful wolves. Bolton nor MLG were happy. It’s taken 4 month for Walls to get to grips with modern footy dept. guessing he’ll start to make some calls soon.

 

[__Bobcat__]

tell us your match winning moves.........

Tag Jäger Omera, in the second half and protect your lead, oh wait that be a week late.

 

[ESKIE]

I’ve worn the navy Blue I have more rights than you, I’ve broken bones, I’ve bled and ive cried so i’ll vent and splutter any way I like on bigfooty or at the ground.

I’ve worn the navy blue too

 

[VeinGlorious]

Kruezer’s first game for 2019 was the Dogs, which we won. He played the first half against Hawks, when we were up by 5 goals, then has been injured since.



On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Which I suppose is why I understand the logic behind wanting to trade him away at the start of the rebuild, not that I agree with it but can see the other sides point. He had a career best year in 2017 didn’t he?

Life after Kreuze and Simmo is fast approaching

 

[Nori]

Is this the thread where people rant while others accuse them of not being real supporters?

"Levi is a terrible footballer"

"How dare you? How could you be so mean? Remember that one game where he kicked a goal..."

Casboult continues to be a liability. Rips out the soul of the playing group with not just regulation mistakes, but absolute crowd killer howlers.

They should have stuck to their gins and played him in the VFL all year. Seduces you with one or two half decent games and then tears your heart out.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Bit too easy of a solution, we were solid in the games without Kruz at the start of the year, today was something else.

I think its a very big factor.
Time to move on from it.
Still looking to next year but I reckon we will improve dramatically sooner than that.

Bit of a concern if our fortunes depend on one player ?

I don't see it as one player. I see it as a vital element in this sport. And we dont have the element working in our favour most of the time.
Besides, Kreuzer on the field is often worth two players.

 

[__Bobcat__]

Sit on a cricket ball

After this guy has bowled it.

 

[Bordertoon]

First one: I go back to the Ratten days because my contention is that as a club we continue to suffer from the same problems that we suffered from for decades even with new coach’s and new talented playing lists over the years.

It should be a standard non negotiable, put in the required effort and running, not players choosing when and where they’d like to do it like today.

Second one: that’s exactly my point. We were up by 5-6 goals against the Hawks, then the Hawks adjusted at half time and it took until the Hawks hit the lead by 3 goals with about 5min left in the game before Bolton himself adjusted by releasing players to be more attacking.

What’s funny is that the reason we got 6 goals up against the hawks in the first place was because he allowed players to be attacking from the start of the game, yet for some reason then forced the players back into their shells second half which allowed the Hawks to comeback and hit the lead by 3 goals before going back to attacking in the dying minutes of the game as you said.

So yeah you are right, he did change something during the Game but I wouldn’t use that game as a positive of adjusting properly

To me, posts like this seem to suggest that our players are passive objects, manipulated by Bolts the master puppeteer, and not active agents who, within the overarching context and structures of a game plan, make decisions for themselves on what they’ll do and how they’ll do it. For example, regarding our third quarter against the Hawks, Bolts has made it crystal clear in subsequent pressers that, far from it being an instruction, he didn’t want our players to go into their shells, and that in his view the fact that many did was a key reason behind us surrendering momentum to the opposition.

More specifically, is it really likely (or possible for that matter) that against North Bolts made Cas attempt that ridiculous inboard kick inside our defensive 50, or to miss that gimme goal in the fourth quarter? Or that in the third quarter Bolts forced Gibbons to kick from halfback to a stationery target (Plowman) on the wing, when mobile Kangas were streaming in to predictably intercept? Or that Bolts forced Plowman to turnover the ball in the first quarter with a pathetic kickout that defied belief, never mind description? Or that the game plan from Bolts necessitated Jones’s choice to attempt a delicate chip just over Goldstein’s head into the arms of one of our smallest players (Gibbons), when Fish was in the vicinity of that teammate but comparatively free from pressure? Of course Bolts didn’t - all of these examples (and the countless others I could have cited - Plowman’s errors alone could fill a multi-volume work) were the result of poor decisions and/or poor skill executions by individual players.

More broadly, if the players were machines amenable to programming by our coaches, wouldn’t the coaches have seen fit to flick the psychological “intensity” switch before sending them out to take on what was obviously going to be a very physical and highly motivated - desperate even - opponent? Or perhaps they did flick those switches on JSOS, Fish, Walsh, Crippa and a few others, while inexplicably forgetting to do so with the majority of their teammates. However, that’s not what Weiters said in his post-game interview on the club website, where he openly states that, for whatever reason, too many of our players simply did not show up psychologically prepared to play yesterday.

Please realise that I am not for a moment arguing that Bolts and the other coaches are blameless for our poor performance yesterday, or on any other day when we underperform so badly - that would be ridiculous. However, imo it is equally ridiculous to imply that the players are mindless chess pieces, with no room to manoeuvre outside of a straitjacket game plan or instructions, whose every decision and action is a direct expression of Bolts’s and the other coaches’ intentions and instructions. Personally, from Bolts’s pressers, I am left with the impression that his aim is to provide our players with an overarching framework (or game plan) and a set of key principles, within which the players can then creatively and intelligently play out games - on occasions this season, they’ve managed this (our first halves against the Dogs and the Hawks, for example), and on other occasions they haven’t, which is not altogether surprising given their overall lack of experience, and the limited cohesion we’ve been able to develop, due to our massive list turnover in the past few years.

Ultimately, I think that it’s the responsibility of Bolts and the other coaches to provide and communicate a sound game plan; the responsibility of the Match Committee to select a side capable of executing that game plan; and the responsibility of the players to motivate themselves, understand the game plan, and reflexively implement it as the contest unfolds, with support and guidance from the coaches of course. Tbh yesterday’s train wreck almost certainly means that all three parties - the coaches, the Match Committee, and the players - let themselves and us down badly, and my hope is that all will take a good look in the mirror in today’s review.

Anyway, if you’ve read and indulged me this far, please feel free to PM me and I’ll do my best to send out a medal. Guess I just wanted to get a few things off my chest.

 

[Blue and Blue]

we need to look at all aspects of performances like this but holding our average age responsible (not you b & b) is silly as blaming a creek for not being a river

Absolutely. Doesn't make it easier to know this but knowledge is everything they say.