Bluemour Discussion Thread XV - Facts Not Welcome

[Eiffel 65]

Yep.

Stats mean nothing.

Richards looks composed with ball in hand and moves extremely well in traffic.

It's more about the eye test.

Also keep in mind that Richards has been playing both lockdown roles in defense and as a small forward. It may look like he's tracking about the same as O'brien from a statistics perspective, but he's playing in positions where it's harder to accumulate possessions.

Also, the fact that he's playing multiple positions would make it difficult for him to gain continuity. We saw this with Weitering in his second year.

 

[Kruezing]

If stats mean nothing Polson will win a brownlow ...

 

[Eiffel 65]

If stats mean nothing Polson will win a brownlow ...

Cyril Rioli wasn't a high possession player but his impact was pronounced.

Statistics have never been more irrelevant. It's all about the eye test.

 

[Soapy V]

Also keep in mind that Richards has been playing both lockdown roles in defense and as a small forward. It may look like he's tracking about the same as O'brien from a statistics perspective, but he's playing in positions where it's harder to accumulate possessions.

O’Brien has been playing defensive wing. Not exactly an easier position to get possessions?

FWIW I think both will be very good players

 

[Eiffel 65]

O’Brien has been playing defensive wing. Not exactly an easier position to get possessions?

FWIW I think both will be very good players

As do I.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Stats mean nothing.

Richards looks composed with ball in hand and moves extremely well in traffic.

It's more about the eye test.

Also keep in mind that Richards has been playing both lockdown roles in defense and as a small forward. It may look like he's tracking about the same as O'brien from a statistics perspective, but he's playing in positions where it's harder to accumulate possessions.

Also, the fact that he's playing multiple positions would make it difficult for him to gain continuity. We saw this with Weitering in his second year.

Could say the same about LOB. It's their second year, absolutely ridiculous to be making a judgement about who should have been picked before the other at this stage.

 

[Soapy V]

Cyril Rioli wasn't a high possession player but his impact was pronounced.

Statistics have never been more irrelevant. It's all about the eye test.

Cyrils statistics were defensive pressure and goals, goals assists & wins. All stats mean something.

 

[Dadda Dave]

Cyril Rioli wasn't a high possession player but his impact was pronounced.

Statistics have never been more irrelevant. It's all about the eye test.

Is that you Bruce

 

[Eiffel 65]

Could say the same about LOB. It's their second year, absolutely ridiculous to be making a judgement about who should have been picked before the other at this stage.

At this point in time, Richards is definitely ahead of O'brien in terms of development.

However, this does necessarily mean that he will be the better player over the course of their respective careers.

Just have a look at Richards. He's already built like a tank.

O'brien on the other hand still needs to put on some weight, so naturally Richards will be a more developed player in the contest at this stage of his career.

I'm not flying the flag for either of them. I'm more alluding to the fact that stats are irrelevant and the fact that at this stage, Richards is probably ahead of O'brien from a physical standpoint.

 

[TooBlue14]

I stood next to O’Brien at the VFL game v Collingwood. * he is tiny. I’ve got grade 10 students that could take him size wise on the footy field. He needs a lot of growth over the next 12-18 months as does Walsh. You can already see Walsh growing. He will probably pick up 5-8 kg over the off season and have a second year blues. Or will he, ultimate professional is Walsh.

 

[OZBomb]

'The Eye Test,' seems like a good way to justify an opinion without substance. Ed Richards fell to where he did, because a whole bunch of other clubs thought there was better options given the evidence at the time. I can confirm all of these people had eyes.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Cyrils statistics were defensive pressure and goals, goals assists & wins. All stats mean something.

True.

Defensive pressure and tap ons to advantage were some of the things that made Cyril a great player.

When Cyril was in the area, things would happen, even when he didn't have the ball. His pressure couldn't be measured by statistics. It's clear that players would sh!t themselves when he was in the area. Don't need stats to tell me this.

I see all these statistics these days for pressure acts, yet the player applying the pressure may have no impact on the ball movement or player in possession at the time.

Obviously stats have some meaning, but I still prefer to make judgements using the eye test before I've looked at any stats because I just find they're misleading at times.

All I have to do is go back to a sample game this year. Geelong vs Melbourne down at the cattery.

Oliver had 44 disposals, Brayshaw had 33 and Viney had 27, yet Melbourne lost the game by 80 points (126 to 46). When you look at those stats and their inside ball winners are dominating the contest, you'd think they'd be winning or at least in the contest, yet they're getting smashed on the scoreboard.

All about the eye test for me

 

[Dramoth]

No, but it's something I want to do later, just for my own interests. That and philosophy.

Philosophy is easy.. drink beer while sitting in a bathtub! Remember to have a towel handy for those eureka moments!

 

[Eiffel 65]

'The Eye Test,' seems like a good way to justify an opinion without substance. Ed Richards fell to where he did, because a whole bunch of other clubs thought there was better options given the evidence at the time. I can confirm all of these people had eyes.

Ed Richards didn't play in the national championships.

He also had very limited exposure at TAC Cup level in his top age year.

Selection was always going to be more of a risk given his limited exposure against the best in his draft class.

Collingwood were looking at him with pick #6, and Bulldogs may have taken him at #9 if Naughton was off the board.

Sliding to #16 was probably more about circumstances. E.g. Adelaide taking the home grown talent in Darcy Fogarty, Eagles taking KPP's etc.

 

[ShanDog]

Philosophy is easy.. drink beer while sitting in a bathtub! Remember to have a towel handy for those eureka moments!

And it's mostly about English anyway - you can sound profound while making zero sense if you have the literary skills.

Fun fact - papers about the study of bullshit (actual title) are becoming more regular. It's hilarious reading academic papers with the word bullshit written in it like a hundred times.

 

[Dramoth]

So what if he turns out better than LOB.

Show me one draft where every pick turned out in the correct order.

Every club over looks players. LOB will still likely turn out a decent player for us. As long as he is not a bust it really doesn't matter so much.

Every club overlooked Fyfe at least once.

 

[ShanDog]

Bloody filter. Bulldust. Studies on bulldust...

 

[Dramoth]

If he was you'd have actually spoken to someone on the board

We do know that some of the Carlton board read bigfooty to get a gauge on the fans.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

We do know that some of the Carlton board read bigfooty to get a gauge on the fans.

I've heard a rumour Thy is actually Jeanne Pratt

 

[Dadda Dave]

I've heard a rumour Thy is actually Jeanne Pratt's great grandfather..

 

[ShanDog]

We do know that some of the Carlton board read bigfooty to get a gauge on the fans.

 

[Dramoth]

Bloody filter. Bulldust. Studies on bulldust...

bulldust as in the superfine soil dust that you get in the Pilbara or bulldust as in the s**t idiots speak?

 

[HBF]

Could it also be that draft was not as strong as first thought.

I'll be happy to take Coffield from the Saints.

 

[SurreyBlue]

O’Brien has been playing defensive wing. Not exactly an easier position to get possessions?

FWIW I think both will be very good players

I thought O’Brien didn’t play the Simpson role..
O’Brien will be fine. 2nd years are the hardest.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

True.

Defensive pressure and tap ons to advantage were some of the things that made Cyril a great player.

When Cyril was in the area, things would happen, even when he didn't have the ball. His pressure couldn't be measured by statistics. It's clear that players would sh!t themselves when he was in the area. Don't need stats to tell me this.

I see all these statistics these days for pressure acts, yet the player applying the pressure may have no impact on the ball movement or player in possession at the time.

Obviously stats have some meaning, but I still prefer to make judgements using the eye test before I've looked at any stats because I just find they're misleading at times.

All I have to do is go back to a sample game this year. Geelong vs Melbourne down at the cattery.

Oliver had 44 disposals, Brayshaw had 33 and Viney had 27, yet Melbourne lost the game by 80 points (126 to 46). When you look at those stats and their inside ball winners are dominating the contest, you'd think they'd be winning or at least in the contest, yet they're getting smashed on the scoreboard.

All about the eye test for me

You're just looking at the wrong stats. Melbourne are last in the comp for disposal efficiency, only club under 40% for efficiency inside 50, last for contested marks and second for turn overs. Don't care how often you win the ball. If you're s**t at kicking and cant catch/ operate inside 50 you'll lose.