Player Watch #5: Brandon Ellis - off to GC pick 39 as compo

[_RT_]

Conca played finals and was atrocious. In the end Balme said bye bye as we had better coming up.
He played 18games in 2018.
If you thought Ellis had any impact on Sunday then you better go to SpecSavers.
If you’re going to accuse someone for being unintentionally ironic then give an example otherwise you’re being a pot. Also make sure it’s in context to whom and what they were quoted for.
For the kick by Prestia to Ellis it doesn’t matter how much you sugar coat it, he s**t himself. Move on RT he had a howler of a day.

You're telling someone to only say things if they are fact otherwise people can't take you seriously, then suggest Balme has half driven him out, which unless you're Balme isn't a fact is it.

Never suggested he had a good game just suggested that his first quarter was a bit better than he was given credit for given he should have had 2 direct goal assists/3 score involvements and covered for a teammates error stopping the Lions from scoring an easy turnover goal, but hey lets ignore them.

Again the kick to him from Prestia was s**t and if Ellis was the one who kicked it to Prestia there would be a hell of a lot more posts in this thread criticising how woeful the kick and decision to take that option was.

 

[TigerImposter]

You're telling someone to only say things if they are fact otherwise people can't take you seriously, then suggest Balme has half driven him out, which unless you're Balme isn't a fact is it.

Never suggested he had a good game just suggested that his first quarter was a bit better than he was given credit for given he should have had 2 direct goal assists/3 score involvements and covered for a teammates error stopping the Lions from scoring an easy turnover goal, but hey lets ignore them.

Again the kick to him from Prestia was s**t and if Ellis was the one who kicked it to Prestia there would be a hell of a lot more posts in this thread criticising how woeful the kick and decision to take that option was.

Don’t you understand the Balme analogy? It’s pretty obvious if you can put two and two together. It’s simple commonsense here and easy to understand. I’m amazed even you can’t see it. lol
The Prestia kick he s**t himself and I’m not going to argue that anymore. Unfortunately it was what we saw and not what you’re conjuring up or suggesting. Again stick to facts and not what your mind is trying to deceive us with. A bit like your Ellis kick to Castagna last week how you were trying to imply Ellis didn’t want to kick it to him bc of his previous shot. Absolute garbage argument. Ellis is a bad decision maker and a panic merchant and if you can get around this then you’re on the right track.

 

[Phar Ace]

I’ve always liked the guy and how he made it from a commission flat to a premiership player. Never loved him as a player but do realize he plays a gut running role.
Myself and a mate went Sunday and we watched him closely. No doubt in my mind he runs himself ragged and presents as a link.
Equally no doubt he has a massive aversion to running with a high ball in flight, and marking overhead when there’s contact coming.... he pulled out a few times when he should have contested.
I’m not a hater... he does play a role and is worthy of best 22, but do believe he can be replaced adequately as well if he leaves.

And that my Richmond friends is the majority view speaking right there - THE MANY (with slight variations of grey). Some are more worried than others about heavy contests. Some are more worried about decision making. Some are more worried about his lack impact per possessions gained. But the majority like the guy because he is Richmond and the majority suggest he remains mostly best 22. Fringe opinions are not the MANY.

 

[Phar Ace]

Don’t you understand the Balme analogy? It’s pretty obvious if you can put two and two together. It’s simple commonsense here and easy to understand. I’m amazed even you can’t see it. lol
The Prestia kick he s**t himself and I’m not going to argue that anymore. Unfortunately it was what we saw and not what you’re conjuring up or suggesting. Again stick to facts and not what your mind is trying to deceive us with. A bit like your Ellis kick to Castagna last week how you were trying to imply Ellis didn’t want to kick it to him bc of his previous shot. Absolute garbage argument. Ellis is a bad decision maker and a panic merchant and if you can get around this then you’re on the right track.

OR........... Ellis can make some bad decisions, but the majority are OK or even good. If there weren't any good decisions he wouldn't be selected each week. Ellis does sometimes panic, but it doesn't define him every time he looks to get involved in the play. You probably get I'm not a big fan of labels unless it's correct 100% of the time. That said, you are probably closer to the mark than someone who won't even acknowledge there was ever a problem

 

[TigerImposter]

OR........... Ellis can make some bad decisions, but the majority are OK or even good. If there weren't any good decisions he wouldn't be selected each week. Ellis does sometimes panic, but it doesn't define him every time he looks to get involved in the play. You probably get I'm not a big fan of labels unless it's correct 100% of the time. That said, you are probably closer to the mark than someone who won't even acknowledge there was ever a problem

If we looked at all the lovers positives and all the haters negatives then weighed them all up on an analytical balance we would end up with Brandon Ellis.

 

[Phar Ace]

If we looked at all the lovers positives and all the haters negatives then weighed them all up on an analytical balance we would end up with Brandon Ellis.

Based on meta analysis (of Brandon Ellis lovers and haters), if we have to combine odds ratios from two different strata into one stratum, I know that M.H formula of calculating the weighted average of the odds ratios, however the problem lies in the fact that this gives me a weighted average of crude odds ratio. If we have already calculated adjusted odds ratios for the two strata we want to combine, is there a way by which we can calculate the weighted average of the adjusted odds? If we can solve that we might just have solved this thread

 

[jc12]

What a ridiculous reply, sure I don’t like it when he puts one arm up for a mark if he thinks contact is coming, but I can wear that if he’s killing it in his role.
I was just pointing out that I think McIntosh is a better option, in my opinion. And it’s only kicking efficiency that may stop that happening?
Brandon doesn’t like body contact, and it just stands out on occasions. McIntosh never flinches and plays the role as well as Brandon, just my opinion.

Only kicking ? Kamdyn barely touches it , that's another . Body contact is not crucial to the role. Though I do love kamdyn. But saying kamdyn can do better is wrong.

 

[jc12]

That's rubbish! You simply cannot say many and know what that means as the noun that it is. The majority don't say that, pure and simple. That's the problem with the rosy ones, take minimal positions and try to make it a maximum view. There are a precious few that match your critiscim. The majority accept and acknowledge Ellis is having a mostly good to very good season. We like that nearly as much as you do. The majority though are just not as unconditional as you. We cheer him, you cheer him, we comment on a weakness or a bad game, you don't. It's just differences. Just don't call a few, many. It just sounds silly.

Think you're back tracking. Good to very good season but still want him out and think kamdyn should replace him , and should be dumped for finals etc etc.

What I'm saying is for a man who is a flag player , 150 games having a good year.... He sure does cop flack from his fans still... WAY MORE than others who also have some flaws too. Maybe he needs to be kod running back with flight before he is respected lol . Actually mopsy will probably highlight the 2cm half step he took before that instead LOL

 

[_RT_]

Don’t you understand the Balme analogy? It’s pretty obvious if you can put two and two together. It’s simple commonsense here and easy to understand. I’m amazed even you can’t see it. lol

Is it a fact or an assumption?

The Prestia kick he s**t himself and I’m not going to argue that anymore. Unfortunately it was what we saw and not what you’re conjuring up or suggesting. Again stick to facts and not what your mind is trying to deceive us with. A bit like your Ellis kick to Castagna last week how you were trying to imply Ellis didn’t want to kick it to him bc of his previous shot. Absolute garbage argument. Ellis is a bad decision maker and a panic merchant and if you can get around this then you’re on the right track.

Can't acknowledge that it was a s**t kick and a poor option by Prestia but proceed to criticise Ellis' decision making.

OR........... Ellis can make some bad decisions, but the majority are OK or even good. If there weren't any good decisions he wouldn't be selected each week. Ellis does sometimes panic, but it doesn't define him every time he looks to get involved in the play. You probably get I'm not a big fan of labels unless it's correct 100% of the time. That said, you are probably closer to the mark than someone who won't even acknowledge there was ever a problem

Have acknowledged plenty of times that he makes some poor decisions

 

[Cdog71]

We need Kmac in , but after Caddy went on Robbo in the last that stopped his aggression on the game which helped us to kick away again. I’m nervous with Brando also bc his power is supposed to be gut running and rarara, but in reality most wingers in his role do the same now. The good ones hurt you both ways though , unfortunately Brando has no hurt factor.

This is the thing though none of us know if he has a license to play forward, he did drift forward against west coast and was part of Reiwoldts goal with four min to go and that helped us win the game and was playing forward of the centre early on against the lions then seemed to swap sides with Caddy and Robinson played almost as a loose in def in the second half getting infront of Lynch and shoring up back flank def...if they have to do that when they’re 3 goals down with a quarter and a half to go I reckon our system beat theirs.
Still Brandon’s 1 mark 2 tackles isn’t great if he’s part of transition out’ve def.
There’s a real possability that was the last game Brando plays for the Tiges, if he gets another game I hope he goes out all guns blazing he’s been a really good servant of the club and I don’t reckon he could’ve gotten much more out’ve himself.

 

[Vassp]

Here is my spin, Ellis is not perfect, he can panic a little, but a few bad things he does he makes up with lots of good things. At least he can find the footy and we get commitment which is more than l can say for some others who never get a mention.his running is awesome,
Who are you gonna replace him with and get the same output?
Leave the kid alone,

 

[tora tora tora]

This is the thing though none of us know if he has a license to play forward, he did drift forward against west coast and was part of Reiwoldts goal with four min to go and that helped us win the game and was playing forward of the centre early on against the lions then seemed to swap sides with Caddy and Robinson played almost as a loose in def in the second half getting infront of Lynch and shoring up back flank def...if they have to do that when they’re 3 goals down with a quarter and a half to go I reckon our system beat theirs.
Still Brandon’s 1 mark 2 tackles isn’t great if he’s part of transition out’ve def.
There’s a real possability that was the last game Brando plays for the Tiges, if he gets another game I hope he goes out all guns blazing he’s been a really good servant of the club and I don’t reckon he could’ve gotten much more out’ve himself.

I think Bolton is ahead of Ellis as far as being dropped. I think Ellis will stay in the side as the balance with Caddy is good. I think Baker is being wasted in the back pocket. I'd play him fwd and Kmac back pocket. The 22 we put out there the last 2 weeks has won against highly regarded teams. On Ellis despite the good season he's had we should not offer him a higher contact. We have 4 or 5 options for his spot next year.

 

[TigerImposter]

Is it a fact or an assumption?

Can't acknowledge that it was a s**t kick and a poor option by Prestia but proceed to criticise Ellis' decision making.

Have acknowledged plenty of times that he makes some poor decisions

It was an analogy. It’s so simple to understand I can’t believe you’re struggling with it. Half driven him out!
It doesn’t mean by vehicle. Think a little bit cryptic.

 

[TigerImposter]

This is the thing though none of us know if he has a license to play forward, he did drift forward against west coast and was part of Reiwoldts goal with four min to go and that helped us win the game and was playing forward of the centre early on against the lions then seemed to swap sides with Caddy and Robinson played almost as a loose in def in the second half getting infront of Lynch and shoring up back flank def...if they have to do that when they’re 3 goals down with a quarter and a half to go I reckon our system beat theirs.
Still Brandon’s 1 mark 2 tackles isn’t great if he’s part of transition out’ve def.
There’s a real possability that was the last game Brando plays for the Tiges, if he gets another game I hope he goes out all guns blazing he’s been a really good servant of the club and I don’t reckon he could’ve gotten much more out’ve himself.

His last two games were unfortunately miles apart. I noticed Bolton and Balta more on Sunday and they had howlers.
The difference between these players and Brando is they can impact games when the ball is in their zone, whilst Brando trots around like a headless chook. He’s so bland I think I’ll call him Blando from now on. I can see why Balme has given him a contract which has forced him to look at the outside market bc with our kids coming on Blando lacks their x-factor and class. He may do them in headless chook gut running in which really is ineffective as a half decent opponent burns him anyway. Then take in his squib acts , poor decision making and chip chip panic kicks and rushed hospital handballs with low tackle counts and really he’s a below average footballer trying to bloodsuck a big payday. The reality is he’s easily replaced bc he’s got only a few bland tricks and I wouldn’t pay him a cent over $250k and that’s me being generous.

 

[Phar Ace]

Think you're back tracking. Good to very good season but still want him out and think kamdyn should replace him , and should be dumped for finals etc etc.

What I'm saying is for a man who is a flag player , 150 games having a good year.... He sure does cop flack from his fans still... WAY MORE than others who also have some flaws too. Maybe he needs to be kod running back with flight before he is respected lol . Actually mopsy will probably highlight the 2cm half step he took before that instead LOL

Rubbish again. Nope, no back tracking here. No need to. I am actually in Ellis's camp, most here are. And that is the point if you just chill and accept that not every negative comment made by the majority of posters is about dropping Bellis from the team (or any other cunning act you imagine). Why are the majority of people making some negative comments? That's right SOME! Stop and think about that just for a moment. It's because there are some negatives in his game, and here's the kicker that you seem to have totally missed - this is the Brandon Ellis thread where Brandon Ellis IS DISCUSSED. It's such a radical idea - I know!

Your and my only difference of opinion really is about my saying we should not match offers that will be coming for him under Free Agency (RFA). I still stand by that - you want to spend all the housekeeping money on keeping him. All good - difference of opinion. You took it further though and said that anyone suggesting he go under FA is being disrespectful. I'm not, it's just your over inflated opinion of your own opinion. I'll take that one step further for you, and have said it here, Brandon might actually want to take a big contract if it is in the offering, if he AND HIS MANAGER realises that there is some real heat coming for his spot in the 22. If they can jag a 4 -5 year deal something like a Polec did, like a Brad Hill did (and probably will again), he could set himself up well and truly and be able to do some things for his family. There are many permutations.

Having read the Free Agency guidelines again I think we might actually lose out on his real value if he does accept an offer and we don't match it. I'd suggest we only get a mid-2nd rounder for him, which sadly takes it nearly all the back to end of 2nd round (but hey we might win the Premiership too so that's OK ). If there is a chance we get a first rounder, that ends up being say Pick 17-20, winner/winner. The kicker is we free up some much needed cap space. I only mention it all again for you because I know you think it is so disrespectful to consider all that, so you have probably conveniently erased it from your memory banks for fear of also having to tell yourself your being disrespectful.

 

[KiwiTiger]

Interesting discussion here.

Speaking of facts, can we just acknowledge that Blair is our GM of Player Retention and List Management. Neil is GM of Football. Blair would be driving any offer and negotiation process. Of course the two discuss needs, value etc., but Blair drives the process.

Haere Ra

 

[Phar Ace]

Have acknowledged plenty of times that he makes some poor decisions

The majority (or THE MANY) have too. I would suggest this has improved though (it's not linear).

 

[TigerImposter]

A bloke in your bottom six shouldn’t be demanding more than $250k, especially if he could be playing vfl for us in 2020.
Absolute ludicrous if people rate this guy higher. Paying overs for an easily replaceable bottom six player is old Richmond and pre Balme.

 

[TigerImposter]

Interesting discussion here.

Speaking of facts, can we just acknowledge that Blair is our GM of Player Retention and List Management. Neil is GM of Football. Blair would be driving any offer and negotiation process. Of course the two discuss needs, value etc., but Blair drives the process.

Haere Ra

So you’re saying Neil just puts the hammer down in the end? I think using the word ‘drives’ you may confuse some on here.

 

[Phar Ace]

Interesting comments from McRae. Posted here because it could impact on Brandon I suppose.........

McRae indicated premiership player Kamdyn McIntosh will slot back into his customary winger role after several weeks in defence attempting to build versatility into his game.

"There were opportunities for him to potentially play that role at AFL level, but I think now the finals have started, we may see him back playing in his normal wing form.

"We want to get him in as best form as possible to grab opportunities as they present."

 

[dustysnecktattoo]

Why Cotchin only 15 disposals and zero tackles and zero goals? Needs to be held accountable.

Bellis for captain

 

[TigerImposter]

Interesting comments from McRae. Posted here because it could impact on Brandon I suppose.........

McRae indicated premiership player Kamdyn McIntosh will slot back into his customary winger role after several weeks in defence attempting to build versatility into his game.

"There were opportunities for him to potentially play that role at AFL level, but I think now the finals have started, we may see him back playing in his normal wing form.

"We want to get him in as best form as possible to grab opportunities as they present."

We could have done with him on Sunday on Robbo or just to give some height in the BL as Brisbane’s tall boys were stretching us a bit. Just as well a lot of their forward entries were short and indirect. I hope Fly is right as we need to replace Blando for the finals as he’s not up to it, but I feel they will axe Bolton and push Blando forward .

 

[Phar Ace]

Why Cotchin only 15 disposals and zero tackles and zero goals? Needs to be held accountable.

Bellis for captain

Well off you go to the Cotchin thread then with our blessing. Nice try to make it relevant to Bellis, but so off the mark it's just not funny. So Bazzar, sorry, So bizarre!

 

[Phar Ace]

We could have done with him on Sunday on Robbo or just to give some height in the BL as Brisbane’s tall boys were stretching us a bit. Just as well a lot of their forward entries were short and indirect. I hope Fly is right as we need to replace Blando for the finals as he’s not up to it, but I feel they will axe Bolton and push Blando forward .

Interesting rub on it. I don't think Brandy has the creativity - gut running and linking up in space is his go surely.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Here is my spin, Ellis is not perfect, he can panic a little, but a few bad things he does he makes up with lots of good things. At least he can find the footy and we get commitment which is more than l can say for some others who never get a mention.his running is awesome,
Who are you gonna replace him with and get the same output?
Leave the kid alone,

Yeah still have him over short!