Bluemour Melting Pot XIX - Give Me Ed Baby - Return of the Prodigal Son

[HARKER]

Anybody who actually believes Liddle and LoGuidice would be actively questioning SOS about missing targets from 3 years ago and when we have won 3 games during a transitional period, please send me a PM.

I’d like to offer you a great deal on a beachfront home in Canberra.

It makes sense they would, and questions have been raised about some of our selections, but I'm not sure how names such as Kelly, Saad and Smith come into play. SOS did like Kelly but he fell outside the draft holdings we had. Kelly even went inside what West Coast budgeted for.

We missed (or neglected) types. That was always the issue for me. Putting names forward well after the fact makes for little practical sense.
Why we didn't hone into the types we required should be the question being asked and not for - "Look, he is a good player now so why didn't we take him?"

If we have to put a spotlight on SOS, we should ask him why we didn't consider Stack and why we took some ageing players and project players, ahead of needs. That's the question that beckons an answer.

 

[Opine]

Perhaps we have this locked in as part of our strategy or have provided assurances to star players that we'll bring in some serious talent.

Agree its a little early in the piece to be making these sort of enquiries.

Would you be more likely or less likely to join a club where the full back of the century is doing the talking?

Selling the club to a player shouldn’t be restricted merely to SOS. But negotiating with player managers seems like a function right up his alley.

 

[Rosscoe]

and its likely the AFL had a hand in the Cogs deal

AFL stepping in after they had to part with some good players for peanuts last year

 

[Stamos]

SOS did like Kelly but he fell outside the draft holdings we had. Kelly even went inside what West Coast budgeted for.

I assumed that meant Josh Kelly, not Tim

 

[Opine]

I’m going to speculate right out of my backside, and exercise my footy fan hunch, by saying that I suspect Ellis’s manager may be complaining about the club withdrawing its offer to his client.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

AFL stepping in after they had to part with some good players for peanuts last year

Absolutely unbelievable.....but I'm sure that there won't be intervention when Patton ends up at the Hawks for a 4th round pick

 

[zeggie]

The questions might come around where that line is and how close the line is that we draw on deals (say, $50K) for principle sake where we could easily make up elsewhere e.g. I'd hate to miss out on Martin for a small monetary amount for principle sake when he's already saying "I'd come to you for $200K less, just bridge the gap a little" - seeing him go to Dogs.

Just keep in mind we're talking about player managers here.

We may have offered Martin 500k. WB may have offered Martin 600k. Martin's manager could be "saying" WB offered 700k.

It's not always black and white.

 

[MITSUHIRATO]

It makes sense they would, and questions have been raised about some of our selections, but I'm not sure how names such as Kelly, Saad and Smith come into play. SOS did like Kelly but he fell outside the draft holdings we had. Kelly even went inside what West Coast budgeted for.

We missed (or neglected) types. That was always the issue for me. Putting names forward well after the fact makes for little practical sense.
Why we didn't hone into the types we required should be the question being asked and not for - "Look, he is a good player now so why didn't we take him?"

If we have to put a spotlight on SOS, we should ask him why we didn't consider Stack and why we took some ageing players and project players, ahead of needs. That's the question that beckons an answer.

The reference was to Josh Kelly, not Tim.

Your argument has merit when it comes to the talent identification component of recruiting at times - although the reference to Sydney Stack who was passed on by every single club doesn’t hold weight.

I’m laughing at the notion that SOS and co are being pressed on why we missed out on premium targets given our ineptness as a side and the fact that we were out priced by more attractive options.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

And the problem is???

Ferris drives a Datsun sunny and has John Ironmonger type looks....

 

[Matty411]

For elite players yes but imagine seeing MM come in this year on big money and have to have a fat camp towards the end of season. We are in some ways still lucky that none of our kids bar Walsh and Weiters have really performed better than to be expected. We haven’t had to ask anyone to take unders yet. Martin on $700k is $200k more than he is worth. That sort of money for good but not great players can hurt you down the track.
(I’m actually happy for us to overpay to get Papley and Martin but I can understand the hesitation. The easiest way to get players to stay for unders and come over for unders is to start contending and those players could drive us in that direction very quickly.)

Martin has shown far more than MM had and has played 97 games of footy at age 24. But were not disagreeing on your other points. I think once we become extremely enticing with the on field results to mirror off field stuff, we should be able to attract Talent far easier. But right now we are sort of in between so may have to pay a small premium to get a Target or two across the line full stop all depends on whether we think Martin could be the difference between winning or losing, which I think he will. If the club is so so on him, then they may be halpy to see him walk to WB.

 

[Healer]

AFL stepping in after they had to part with some good players for peanuts last year

Perhaps so.
The point being though that it was not a CFC destination club issue. Or an issue with recruiting strategy.
It was out of our control.

 

[I bleed Blue]

It makes sense they would, and questions have been raised about some of our selections, but I'm not sure how names such as Kelly, Saad and Smith come into play. SOS did like Kelly but he fell outside the draft holdings we had. Kelly even went inside what West Coast budgeted for.

We missed (or neglected) types. That was always the issue for me. Putting names forward well after the fact makes for little practical sense.
Why we didn't hone into the types we required should be the question being asked and not for - "Look, he is a good player now so why didn't we take him?"

If we have to put a spotlight on SOS, we should ask him why we didn't consider Stack and why we took some ageing players and project players, ahead of needs. That's the question that beckons an answer.

I know all other 17 clubs passed on Stack also so there are obviously issues there... but he fills a need we are absolutely screaming out for.

He filled more of a need for us than any other club.

Imagine if we had of added Walsh and Stack this offseason. Wowee

 

[teagueyubeauty]

And Kelly and Saad and Smith...

To be fair though, most of those we were a basket case going full rebuild with quite a few years of pain to go, Coniglio is the first where we would have been seen as a club with real short to medium term prospects.

AFL dipped their nose in and he stayed, id like the club to delve into that further and put extreme pressure on the AFL to be transparent. Dodgy as f***

 

[Jorge]

I’m a die hard Carlton supporter and even I wouldn’t have picked to go to Carlton if I was Shiel or Smith.

 

[branedotorg]

tbh, I'd be pretty ****ed off if we missed out on Martin purely because we're not offering him more money, and then go all out on Ellis.

Only reading between the lines, but with all the good recruitment SOS has achieved, he seems to be pretty stubborn at times which may be costing us talent.

If a player like Martin wants to come to the club, we need to find a way to compromise and make it happen, rather than just digging our heels in and losing him to another club.

agree in principle but not in specific:

Martin has been flaky and conditional at the only club that's been worse than us his whole career. Ellis, while unsexy, has been a regular in arguable the best performed and the best drilled team of the past three years.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Thanks for letting us know, Shmurf.

I suppose it depends on who's doing the asking as for whether it's okay. If it's Brad Lloyd, that's one thing; if it's MLG, or someone else on the board, that's quite something else.

Nekminit, LoGuidice is running recruitment.....

 

[Opine]

I know all other 17 clubs passed on Stack also so there are obviously issues there... but he fills a need we are absolutely screaming out for.

He filled more of a need for us than any other club.

Imagine if we had of added Walsh and Stack this offseason. Wowee

Not only did 17 other clubs pass on him, they each, including Tigers, passed on him 4 or 5 times. Richmond’s eventual selection of him therefore seems little more like a gamble that just happened to paid off.

 

[Opine]

The stack argument is a weak argument.

 

[Rosscoe]

Absolutely unbelievable.....but I'm sure that there won't be intervention when Patton ends up at the Hawks for a 4th round pick

Agreed... consistency is probably the biggest challenge the AFL faces

not only salary cap but also umpiring, reporting etc...every inch is being watched and i hope our club starts getting some wins in that department too

 

[branedotorg]

It's Adelaide, so their off-season will probably be deciding on a captain during a camp filled with sadomasochistic trials followed by a death match between two final candidates.

 

[mochacinolatte]

I just can't see Sydney giving Essendon 2 firsts for JD. He can't even get on the park. They've just missed Finals and a single tall forward isn't going to change much.

I disagree. Take the number 1 KPF from any team and they would be worse. JD in 2017 form was elite while snagging 65 that year.

2017 Form JD you easily command 1 x top 5 pick and 1 x pick between 10-18.

As you said since he couldn't get on the park for the previous 2 years so its hard to gauage his market value.

So it is a tricky trade.

 

[Sam The Doc]

I’m a die hard Carlton supporter and even I wouldn’t have picked to go to Carlton if I was Shiel or Smith.

But we would like to offer you 800K a year.

 

[majesticseacapt]

What similarities to Brock and Papley share?

I was referring to trading out our first round pick for someone that has had one decent year.

 

[Nori]

So for all the chefs and broths in the SEN article it amounted to there being a bit of a disagreement over Ellis. All I can say is thank goodness SOS is there to make the hard decisions. Lets face it, Ellis is by no means a big fish and not even a player that we really need.

 

[HARKER]

I assumed that meant Josh Kelly, not Tim

The reference was to Josh Kelly, not Tim.

Your argument has merit when it comes to the talent identification component of recruiting, but makes zero sense when asking why we missed out on premium targets given our ineptness as a side and the fact that we were out priced by more attractive options.

Oh right. Josh Kelly.

I don't know. That doesn't make sense to me.
Have the discussion with SOS as to how the club may have done things better and how we can do them better in the future as a collective, but on these key tickets items, all parties are involved to some degree anyway.

Just doesn't gel to me on face value, in that the CEO would bring out the big stick on situations that were largely out of our control.
I don't look at individuals so much but at types and the balance of our squad, which to some degree is still unbalanced......so if SOS is to be questioned on anything it should be on this issue.........and Finbar