Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[KohPhi]

I think the “signing on the last day of trading” part is the different bit. Martin woke up this morning more determined than yesterday to get to Carlton.

Most definitely. And I'm stoked that he wil more than likely be wearing Blue in a month or so.
But my point stands, even though the landscape is different, we were wooden spooners and wanted to let our players and other clubs know that we weren't going to rollover.

Different time...same message.

 

[Funk]

Forgive me for being less than confident unless we see Martin in navy blue after the psd. No high fives just yet.

Please don’t tell me it was the plan all along. If it is I dare say not too many will nominate us knowing we put them and their futures at risk if we smell a less than favourable deal.

Don't worry they say, it’ll get done, well I’ve heard that one before.

Don’t be such a worry wart.

Players listen to their managers.

Martin’s Manager has advised Jack that Carlton did all they reasonably could and will get him through PSD.

GCS are being dicks.

Will have zero impact on Carlton’s future deals - May even help to stop other clubs being idiots.

 

[RoyalParade]

Not yet. If port choose to delist him we can go after him then


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I'm sensing knight instead

 

[Stamos]

Not saying it's untrue, but that dude's posting history is...sketchy.

Posts in the no discussion thread are solid

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Through the PSD for free!

Can’t see 15-17 clubs passing up on him....

 

[windows1]

Wh

For the benefit of everyone, I detailed how a 1 year deal potentially works for Martin. All in accordance with the Rules.

Delisted - Jack Martin [Selected by Carlton in the PSD]

I can understand why that particular topic might not be very popular to Essendon and Gold Coast supporters. Shame it's fact. I won't refer to it here.

www.bigfooty.com

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/AFL%20Rules%20effective%209%20May%202019.pdf

1. Martin doesn't have to nominate payments. He can nominate as Category 2. He can seek arbitration. Rule 21.
2. Martin can use Carlton's offer during arbitration to obtain a 1 year deal for $800-1 million. Rule 21.4 and 21.10.
3. Melbourne can accept that huge offer, or release him.
4. If Melbourne accepts that huge offer, Martin can refuse to sign with Melbourne, and Melbourne must PAY him for the entire year before trading or releasing him. Even if he doesn't play. Rule 7.8 and 21.2.
5. If Arbitration is somehow unsuccessful, he can seek leave for restraint of trade to be released from Melbourne to accept Carlton's offer. Rule 1.4 and 21.3

All the risk is on Melbourne. For a player who doesn't want to go there. When they potentially have 6-10 uncontracted players seeking new contracts in 2020, and those players are watching the club blow $1 million on a single player, for one year, who again - doesn't want to be there.

Good luck Melbourne.

What is Category 2? I can’t see it? What page in the PDF?

 

[Keyza]

I remember the Thornton issue clearly.
He asked to be traded and we said we would take him in the PSD.
I don't think Thornton was that unhappy at Carlton and he was not leaving for a truckload of money so didn't have to option to put a big price on his head.
He did miss out on a chance to play in a premiership but he stayed at the club for a lot longer.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I tend to think that ****wit Cochrane is still chest puffing in response to Carlton's potential strategy to get Martin through the draft.

Hopefully once the dust settles all around, commonsense will prevail. GCS do have some good operators up there, Mark Evans being one of them. With a bit of luck, he'll get into the ear of Cochrane and co, and talk some sense into them, rather than ruin a kid's career.

 

[OZBomb]

Nothing's going to show you're a destination club like holding a player at metaphorical gun point that doesn't want to be there. It must be a really appealing look for an upcoming free agent.

 

[ajb72]

Tin foil hat time.

AFL are actually helping carlton.

AFL gives GC picks dependant on giving Carlton a player for free.

End result. AFL has helped 2 clubs near bottom of ladder.

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[zeggie]

I see what you're saying, but it was within our rights to not trade him and enter the draft to be picked up by who ever in 2006, just like it was within GC rights to do the same.

The only difference is Martin will most likely get to the Blues. Thornton had no chance to get to the Hawks a d as such, signed a contract.

It was a long time ago, so I may make an error here or there, but the main threat was if they entered the draft they could not nominate payments back then the same as it is now. It was totally different. You'd have to essentially negotiate separately with every single team who could possibly draft you. Then the uncertainty of ending up in any possible state. It was an entirely different and convoluted process that no longer exists thanks to nominations.

Clubs unreasonably used the above to keep players at clubs and signed for dollars that are known, and live where they currently live. They all did it. It was wrong.

Different day and era now.

 

[Blue Doormat]

Most definitely. And I'm stoked that he wil more than likely be wearing Blue in a month or so.
But my point stands, even though the landscape is different, we were wooden spooners and wanted to let our players and other clubs know that we weren't going to rollover.

Different time...same message.

Respect that, excepting that Ah Chee rolled out the door for what most deemed reasonable. GCS picking and choosing who to take a stand on?
FWIW Martin hung around for 3 years longer than Ah Chee too.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Craig cameron phoned sos this morning to apologise for what happened. Said list management team wanted 2 do the original deal agreed but were over ruled by afl

****ing Gilligan....

 

[BluesTragic]

When Bennell was stuffing up on GC - Marlion Pickett was in jail.

FWIW - Pickett did OK on GF day.

Seems Bennell is now a father and is turning his life around.

May be worth a little investment.

Don’t write him off just yet.

I’m 100% with you on this one Funk....
Certainly risk involved but the benefits could be game changing


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[TwiggleyFanClub]

Problem is the AFL charter would have draftees over a barrel.
GCS have a truck load of picks and kids can't all avoid the place. Then they'll get locked in so Gill can pretend he leaves a successful GCS for his legacy.
Can only see it being the superannuation club. The likes of Ellis going there for overs and the kids running as soon as they can with GCS being absolute SOB's in every trade coz Gill's standing in the background with the hammer at the ready.

 

[zeggie]

Wh

What is Category 2? I can’t see it? What page in the PDF?

The link is there. It's a PDF from AFL's interwebs.

Category 2 is defined in the PDF.

 

[Arr0w]

If GC came out and said Martin is a required/ wanted player and we will try and make him fall back in love with the club, so we won't be considering a trade, unless of course we get massive overs aka DODO

GC actually refuted a fair and viable trade offer and I will concede, their offer wasn't that unreasonable either.

What I am perplexed about is, they willingly let Lynch go when they could matched, traded out May with a year to run, got unders for Scrimshaw, delisted Lyons with a year to run, happily traded Achee for a late 2nd and 4th, yet want to take the moral ground on another uncontracted player

An offer that all of the industry conceded was a fair and reasonable offer, an offer that would have landed many other talented players in this trade period

Now it looks like he will leave anyway, so what have they really achieved?

 

[KohPhi]

It was a long time ago, so I may make an error here or there, but the main threat was if they entered the draft they could not nominate payments back then the same as it is now. It was totally different. You'd have to essentially negotiate separately with every single team who could possibly draft you. Then the uncertainty of ending up in any possible state. It was an entirely different and convoluted process that no longer exists thanks to nominations.

Clubs unreasonably used the above to keep players at clubs and signed for dollars that are known, and live where they currently live. They all did it. It was wrong.

Different day and era now.

I actually agree with everything you are saying. Spot on.

But my point is more around the underlying reasoning in what Carlton did in not accepting Hawks offer, and that being we decided to take a stand and not let a wanted player move.

Different situations, rules, etc yep...agree, but the message from Carlton (and now Suns) is in essence, the same.

(In hindsight, we probs should have taken the 1st round and 3rd round pick on offer and made off like bandits!!)

 

[slashin_velvet]

No major differences, just subtle

If GC came out and said Martin is a required/ wanted player and we will try and make him fall back in love with the club, so we won't be considering a trade, unless of course we get massive overs aka DODO

GC actually refuted a fair and viable trade offer and I will concede, their offer wasn't that unreasonable either.

What I am perplexed about is, they willingly let Lynch go when they could matched, traded out May with a year to run, got unders for Scrimshaw, delisted Lyons with a year to run, happily traded Achee for a late 2nd and 4th, yet want to take the moral ground on another uncontracted player

An offer that all of the industry conceded was a fair and reasonable offer, an offer that would have landed many other talented players in this trade period

Now it looks like he will leave anyway, so what have they really achieved?

Backed. Hard

 

[Stamos]

The other difference between Martin and Thornton is, Martin has asked for a trade 2 years in a row, and wants to move to another state. He was also open to multiple clubs last year, and it was just this year that he requested us only.

 

[jj1978]

Craig cameron phoned sos this morning to apologise for what happened. Said list management team wanted 2 do the original deal agreed but were over ruled by afl

If that’s true, make it public and remove the current administration.

 

[windows1]

**** all I’d say Arrow. **** all.

They certainly won’t get him back. Saying they didn’t want those picks is moronic. They could have upgraded them.

And do they really think any other club is going to be scared off? And pay overs next time? Yeah nah.

Just bluff and Agro posturing.

 

[jj1978]

Bennell will be a Richmond player... lock it in.

 

[thylacine60]

If that’s true, make it public and remove the current administration.

the original post said "over-ruled by management"...………edit was mine...……….

 

[KohPhi]

No major differences, just subtle

If GC came out and said Martin is a required/ wanted player and we will try and make him fall back in love with the club, so we won't be considering a trade, unless of course we get massive overs aka DODO

GC actually refuted a fair and viable trade offer and I will concede, their offer wasn't that unreasonable either.

What I am perplexed about is, they willingly let Lynch go when they could matched, traded out May with a year to run, got unders for Scrimshaw, delisted Lyons with a year to run, happily traded Achee for a late 2nd and 4th, yet want to take the moral ground on another uncontracted player

An offer that all of the industry conceded was a fair and reasonable offer, an offer that would have landed many other talented players in this trade period

Now it looks like he will leave anyway, so what have they really achieved?

I don't think they've achieved anything but making a douche of themselves to be honest Arrow. I'm pretty confident he'll be a Blue.

My OP was more around the 'moral indignity' some here are pushing.. my post was a gentle 'nudge' remind some that 'hey, we've taken a similar stand, albeit in different circumstances.

As for pushing the stupidity barrow, I'm firmly in that camp. The moral barrow, not so much.