Member Online Forum 9th Dec 2019

[blue healer]

no but I've seen being john malkovich.........

Wonder if I'm the only one who thinks that was a crap movie?

 

[thylacine60]

IMO, we've only got 3 actual ITK's and i've got a feeling 2 of them won't have much info from now on. I look forward to more occasional good mail from TRP, but besides that i'd be happy for the "Info" train to slow down here.

I'm a patient being and don't need to know tomorrows news today. Especially when tomorrow often brings a different day.

nothing to stop new itk posters from appearing - they just need to confirm their bonafides with a bit of credible info and bimbambom they're on the list......

 

[slashin_velvet]

nothing to stop new itk posters from appearing - they just need to confirm their bonafides with a bit of credible info and bimbambom they're on the list......

Step 1: Post your ITK info
Step 2: get shouted down by all and sundry
Step 3: ITK info comes true
Step 4:.....
Step 5: Batlogo

 

[Blue since 72]

View attachment 791590

Assuming Liddle is not lying this confirms SOS knew about the interaction with Ellis and how it would go down.

That is all it is saying.

 

[thylacine60]

Wonder if I'm the only one who thinks that was a crap movie?

people got swept up in the charlie kaufmann thing pretty quickly then adaptation happened and whooshker........

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I've never challenged your final point. I think the coach has a bit more say in match committee, and I would propose that the fact we didn't get Ellis tells you SOS had a pretty firm voice and was only overruled by a significant majority (e.g. Betts).

I still find it funny people are latching onto the Liddle-Ellis connection now as a conflict while blindfolding themselves to the Teague-Eddie decision which was an identical relationship given Teague used to coach Eddie.

You are right about the Teague/Eddie conflict but as a former Carlton player and much loved by the supporters, there are conflicts everywhere with Eddie.

Aside from that, the coach should definitely have more input than the CEO.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Assuming Liddle is not lying this confirms SOS knew about the interaction with Ellis and how it would go down.

That is all it is saying.

But may not have agreed with chasing Ellis himself.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Still a list place.

Yeah, but there are many players you might sacrifice for an elite midfielder. Not as many for an average flanker.

 

[Stamos]

nothing to stop new itk posters from appearing - they just need to confirm their bonafides with a bit of credible info and bimbambom they're on the list......

Unfortunately, you have posters attacking them even after they prove their bonafides

 

[thylacine60]

true that

 

[Blue since 72]

A panel to select staff is not the same as needing a panel to select players.

What you are suggesting is akin to needing a panel to decide on a game plan. You hired the coach to execute his vision. He lives and dies by that. He has assistant coaches providing input and he takes what he wa ts from that input.

Same with a recruiting manager. He can't be everywhere so others attend games and provide vision and analysis initially, they narrow down their list and then the manager goes and sees for himself.

How would anyone here feel if SOS had a vote on how Liddle should perform his role as CEO? Not qualified right .... ?

Players are employees though or to use another word, staff.

And given the way Teague has passed the game plan to the players there is certainly more than one person involved in how it will eventually look. If the business has decided that a sub committee will make decisions on who to employ based on consensus or majority rule then that is the lie of the land. Maybe that structure became untenable for SOS but it doesn't necessarily make the structure wrong.

 

[Stamos]

You are right about the Teague/Eddie conflict but as a former Carlton player and much loved by the supporters, there are conflicts everywhere with Eddie.

Aside from that, the coach should definitely have more input than the CEO.

I don't see a coach requesting a player that they have already coached (especially on a low, 1 year contract at the cost of a future 4th round pick) as a 'conflict'.

 

[Sector 7G]

Assuming Liddle is not lying this confirms SOS knew about the interaction with Ellis and how it would go down.

That is all it is saying.

The reality is we have heard a guarded response on 1 side of the story. While there is nothing to be gained from it , it would be interesting to hear SOS take on things.

Ultimately we need to build a bridge and get over it all.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Assuming Liddle is not lying this confirms SOS knew about the interaction with Ellis and how it would go down.

That is all it is saying.

Which is what most of this debate is about. Did Liddle go behind SOS's back, or did the List Management team discuss an approach to Ellis and agree (unanimously or not) that Liddle making contact and handling the tour would be prudent given he was familiar with Ellis? Because Liddle has put it on the record that it's the latter. And if he is lying, blatantly, in a public member forum with every answer well documented...well, he wouldn't, would he. Given his detractors are painting him as a political snake, it's hard to believe he'd outright lie in a public forum when doing so would undoubtedly find him being exposed in short order.

 

[Windhover]

I don't agree with your view that Carlton is somehow cursed with being a bad place for people to work - the world doesn't work like that. Carlton is no worse or better than any other football club. I just think when it comes to treating with people - that respect for a Carlton legend who has done a great job - wasn't afforded by an interloper with no credentials and his pet familiars.

I know nothing of the truth of the Ellis/Betts/any other controversies. IMO they are completely irrelevant to SOS's departure.

SOS had to go. The conflict of interest was manifest. If Carlton are to compete in an increasingly professional sport then basic conflict of interest management must be inherent in the organisation.

It is patently obvious that as father of 2 players and father of a potential 3rd player no meaningful list management decision could be made by SOS that could not be interpreted as being done to favour his boys or, alternatively, done to avoid being seen to favour his boys.

Just put yourself in SOS's position. Imagine if he thought SOJ was just not worth a place on the list. Imagine how difficult telling SOJ that it was his decision that SOJ should piss off.

If Kemp comes good he is just the sort of player that might replace SOJ in the team. Was that why SOS was happy to swap pick 11, in the hope he would not be selected? Etc, etc.

The decision to cease with SOS was the only decision that could realistically have been made.

You want to parse Liddle's involvement with the recruitment of Ellis or Betts as "the real reason" SOS was "sacked". If it was then Liddle got lucky because terminating SOS as List Manager was the only thing that could have been done.

 

[thylacine60]

what animal will I be likened to you if I pledge support for liddle?

 

[Blue since 72]

But may not have agreed with chasing Ellis himself.

Correct.

 

[thylacine60]

Step 1: Post your ITK info
Step 2: get shouted down by all and sundry
Step 3: ITK info comes true
Step 4:.....
Step 5: Batlogo

is pretty much how it works..........

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I don't see a coach requesting a player that they have already coached (especially on a low, 1 year contract at the cost of a future 4th round pick) as a 'conflict'.

For the sake of the discussion I was having, I conceded a small point. Teague is friends with Eddie, played with and coached him. If I think Liddle had a conflict with Ellis, I have to concede on that one. Not quite the same though with the power differential between Liddle and Teague.

 

[Sector 7G]

I don't see a coach requesting a player that they have already coached (especially on a low, 1 year contract at the cost of a future 4th round pick) as a 'conflict'.

We don't have a great record with Coaches requesting players they have coached to be traded in: McLean and Thomas. At least this one hasn't cost much.

 

[blue healer]

what animal will I be likened to you if I pledge support for liddle?

The two faced sloth.... maybe that was a toe so FIIK.

 

[agro]

Someone very much more observant than me pointed out that something has been removed from the wall in the Carlton Boardroom.

 

[thylacine60]

Someone very much more observant than me pointed out that something has been removed from the wall in the Carlton Boardroom.

that better not be true...........

 

[Stamos]

We don't have a great record with Coaches requesting players they have coached to be traded in: McLean and Thomas. At least this one hasn't cost much.

The price makes a huge difference.
Clarkson took Dew against the LM's wishes. Low cost (huge reward).

It is obviously far more problematic when they come on/for a big cost.
Although, we didn't even have a list manager when we took McLean and Thomas, so there's also that.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Players are employees though or to use another word, staff.

And given the way Teague has passed the game plan to the players there is certainly more than one person involved in how it will eventually look. If the business has decided that a sub committee will make decisions on who to employ based on consensus or majority rule then that is the lie of the land. Maybe that structure became untenable for SOS but it doesn't necessarily make the structure wrong.

I'm not saying it is wrong as an idea overall. I'm saying to implement it to rein in power over someone who was doing a great job, after previously being given his space to do as he wanted, is a very dicey exercise and you have to be a people person.

Let's face it, there was no obvious issues in what SOS was doing that necessitated the change. For some reason, people outside of SOS's team wanted in on the decision making process so made changed to ensure this happened. How can that not seem like a slap in the face?

Others didn't form the game plan for Teague to pass on. They merely offer their input and the head coach decides whether to accept it or reject it. It's certainly not the case that the assistant coaches could want one thing and Teague is outvoted so has to implement it.