Past #28: Kayne Turner - pick #25 in '14 RD - delisted end '22 - re-listed w/ #39 in '22 RD - delisted end "23 - 111gm/58gl - thx Kayno

[Kimbo]

There does seem to be a propensity on here to overrate very limited players who display "shinboner spirit" and underrate more talented players who are perceived to lack intensity regardless of output. A good example would be that by any measure Mason Wood has produced more performances that contribute meaningfully to the team than Turner, but Turner gets far more love here than Wood.

How are you defining "performance that contribute meaningfully to the team"?

 

[marklovesbeer]

OOC - career with NMFC over?

 

[Rad Roo]

OOC - career with NMFC over?

Am afraid so, last yr on the contract with others of his type but better around

 

[LuvtheKangas]

OOC - career with NMFC over?

Am afraid so, last yr on the contract with others of his type but better around

Even if he's out for all of 2020, I'd be shocked if he wasn't offered a new contract, even if only 1 or 2 years. He might be seen as very complementary to the way the team has re-shaped over the year.

 

[king of the road]

There does seem to be a propensity on here to overrate very limited players who display "shinboner spirit" and underrate more talented players who are perceived to lack intensity regardless of output. A good example would be that by any measure Mason Wood has produced more performances that contribute meaningfully to the team than Turner, but Turner gets far more love here than Wood.

In the example you provide, those views are shared by those in the coaches box.

That would indicate that the coaches believe that Turner more meaningfully contributes to the team than Wood does. Hence why they tried to trade out Wood and he's struggling to get a game in the best 26, let alone 22 and Turner has been bet 22 for years.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

Nugget from the AFL Prospectus: We have scored 114 points directly from turnovers caused by Kayne's pressure in the last two seasons. Ranks him 14th in the AFL for this measure.

So what is this saying?

Kayne has contributed around 3 points per game over the past 2 years (say 38 games played and contributing 114 points in total?)

Assuming each team has a player playing this role he is 14th out of 18?

I'm not getting the positive vibe here.

 

[ferball]

So what is this saying?

Kayne has contributed around 3 points per game over the past 2 years (say 38 games played and contributing 114 points in total?)

Assuming each team has a player playing this role he is 14th out of 18?

I'm not getting the positive vibe here.

3 points per game not including his own scoring. Count that and he is worth 250 points over that time, 43 games fwiw. (So just under a goal a game.)

Dunno what he is worth in terms of goals saved either. It's harder to measure but no doubt people (ie club staff) watching his whole season carefully and reviewing it would be able to get a feel for that sort of thing.

 

[Jack Bradley]

Ah yes. One of those dynamic small forwards that doesn't kick goals, doesn't create goals, is decent at pressure and is slow with passible skills. Sounds like a true 12 season shinboner "club" legend.

 

[Devington]

Not really sure it sucks Billy, he aint no Winston Abraham. He maybe well liked around here but imo he's just one of about six plodders we roll out weekly and expect a return that is beyond him and them.

A career fwd who averages .7 goals a game cannot be a huge loss to a side that wants to be successful and I'm talking in general terms- any side, in any comp.

I hope he recovers quickly and kicks bags of goals, I just don't see it happening.

I like a lot of what Turner brings to the squad, his defensive work on foot, in the air, against multiple opponents, and to pick up the slack of others is well and truly above average. His scoreboard output though is awful. He's a role player, and every successful team needs them.

However... You can't necessarily carry a half dozen of them while also only having very few elite players, and there are certain positions where a 'role player' doesn't really cut it if you want good odds of going all the way.

Send him off for surgery, assess our other small forward stocks while he recuperates, get him fit, maybe change his role/instructions based on what the rest of the squad produces, and let him try and smash it out of the park when he returns. It's not so much 'the smart choice' as it is a case of flirting with utter failure on multiple fronts (his health and form, seeing what others could offer replacing him, LTI list shenanigans etc) if you don't take that option.

 

[north_lad]

Bring in THE HOSE

 

[Psicosis]

Well that’s one free ride coming to an end (only a couple more from the Scott Joyce era left)...

I’ll never understand the love for Turner, as highlighted has minimal offensive impact in a role where this is critical. Has seemed to exist with people believing he has elite pressure... averaging 3.5 tackles and 0.9 1%ers ain’t elite just isn’t good enough when you’re not getting near the scoreboard. Need to stop carrying blokes like this.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

3 points per game not including his own scoring. Count that and he is worth 250 points over that time, 43 games fwiw. (So just under a goal a game.)

Dunno what he is worth in terms of goals saved either. It's harder to measure but no doubt people (ie club staff) watching his whole season carefully and reviewing it would be able to get a feel for that sort of thing.

Ferbs - he won't have had much impact on 'goals saved' as he doesn't play defence.

So what we have here is a combined defensive forward pressure result of 3 points per gam plus his own average scoring of around 5 points so around 8 points per game in total from offensive and defensive efforts.

I'm not sure we should be losing too much sleep from Kayne missing - young Mahoney looks to have a much higher level of skill already than Kayne and it will be good to see him play some games.

 

[Passmore]

Ferbs - he won't have had much impact on 'goals saved' as he doesn't play defence.

So what we have here is a combined defensive forward pressure result of 3 points per gam plus his own average scoring of around 5 points so around 8 points per game in total from offensive and defensive efforts.

I'm not sure we should be losing too much sleep from Kayne missing - young Mahoney looks to have a much higher level of skill already than Kayne and it will be good to see him play some games.

Goals saved can come from defensive efforts on the opposition attacking hbf's. Is he doing anything to prevent rebound and scores generated from there? Some teams will score heavily from that area.

He would need to be elite in that area to justify selection given his below average/poor offensive out put.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

 

[7577969923]

In the example you provide, those views are shared by those in the coaches box.

That would indicate that the coaches believe that Turner more meaningfully contributes to the team than Wood does. Hence why they tried to trade out Wood and he's struggling to get a game in the best 26, let alone 22 and Turner has been bet 22 for years.

We have been a mediocre team all the time that Turner has been best 22. He wouldn't be close to best 22 in a genuine top 4 team. Yes, we tried to trade Wood out and there were no takers. I think we can pretty safely assume that if we tried to trade Turner there would be zero takers. If we delisted both I am pretty sure that Wood would be drafted before Turner as his upside is miles above Turner's.

 

[King Corey]

We have been a mediocre team all the time that Turner has been best 22. He wouldn't be close to best 22 in a genuine top 4 team. Yes, we tried to trade Wood out and there were no takers. I think we can pretty safely assume that if we tried to trade Turner there would be zero takers. If we delisted both I am pretty sure that Wood would be drafted before Turner as his upside is miles above Turner's.

We were decent in his 1st 2 years of senior footy.

 

[7577969923]

We were decent in his 1st 2 years of senior footy.

We were okay. Still don't think there is any contending side that is thinking the missing piece in our puzzle is a Kayne Turner type who doesn't win much of the ball, kicks very few goals, gives away quite a few free-kicks, but makes the odd tackle and pressure act.

 

[King Corey]

We were okay. Still don't think there is any contending side that is thinking the missing piece in our puzzle is a Kayne Turner type who doesn't win much of the ball, kicks very few goals, gives away quite a few free-kicks, but makes the odd tackle and pressure act.

He needs to get more productive for sure, but look at the alternatives on the list.

An 18yo kid yet to debut.

A perenially injured explosive 186cm player.

A 22yo kid yet to debut.

We don't exactly have a young Brent Harvey or Lindsay Thomas to slot straight in.

 

[disco_cowboy]

Kayne's desperation in the dying seconds of this game is why he gets another contract.

 

[7577969923]

He needs to get more productive for sure, but look at the alternatives on the list.

An 18yo kid yet to debut.

A perenially injured explosive 186cm player.

A 22yo kid yet to debut.

We don't exactly have a young Brent Harvey or Lindsay Thomas to slot straight in.

I think and hope that Anderson will end up playing more of a forward pressure role as the likes of Bonar and LDU step up for serious mid-field minutes. I think Anderson can do everything that Turner does as a pressure forward with several more strings to his bow. Perhaps he could rotate midfield and forward minutes with that perennially injured explosive 186cm player (assuming you mean Garner?).

It won't be a bad thing to give Mahoney some exposure to senior footy. I wouldn't expect him to be a superstar straight away but I am a believer in his future upside.

 

[SunnyBoner]

He needs to get more productive for sure, but look at the alternatives on the list.

An 18yo kid yet to debut.

A perenially injured explosive 186cm player.

A 22yo kid yet to debut.

We don't exactly have a young Brent Harvey or Lindsay Thomas to slot straight in.

that's true, I see it's a role that Jed could make his own with not only elite pressure acts but real scoreboard pressure.

 

[King Corey]

What's Anderson's tank like? Am concerned attempting Turner KMs would torch his hammies.

Would also prefer Jed spending more time as an accountable centre square mid.

Agree he'd be a decent HF though to be fair to Kayne a direct comparison would involve Kayne not having to cover 15km a game so give himself a better chance to show off some skills.

 

[7577969923]

What's Anderson's tank like? Am concerned attempting Turner KMs would torch his hammies.

Would also prefer Jed spending more time as an accountable centre square mid.

Agree he'd be a decent HF though to be fair to Kayne a direct comparison would involve Kayne not having to cover 15km a game so give himself a better chance to show off some skills.

Do you have any GPS data on the ground that Turner covers in matches or is it more of a hunch?

 

[King Corey]

Do you have any GPS data on the ground that Turner covers in matches or is it more of a hunch?

It's not anecdotal as such, as in I've seen it listed for games previously. Brown and Turner were pretty regular leaders iirc. Strangely a quick net search found Kayne listed a few years ago as our fastest player producing a 34kmh burst? (!)

The hunch part would be a suspicion that he runs to the point of fatigue for full games to cover the defensive lapses of some teammates.

 

[7577969923]

It's not anecdotal as such, as in I've seen it listed for games previously. Brown and Turner were pretty regular leaders iirc. Strangely a quick net search found Kayne listed a few years ago as our fastest player producing a 34kmh burst? (!)

The hunch part would be a suspicion that he runs to the point of fatigue for full games to cover the defensive lapses of some teammates.

For me, it highlights his lack of football smarts a bit. He has a big tank and good top-end speed which should allow him to get into the right spots to have an impact on the game and yet games where he has more than a dozen touches are the exception.

 

[The Warlord]

He needs to get more productive for sure, but look at the alternatives on the list.

An 18yo kid yet to debut.

A perenially injured explosive 186cm player.

A 22yo kid yet to debut.

We don't exactly have a young Brent Harvey or Lindsay Thomas to slot straight in.

Who is that?