Toast Heritier Lumumba pens heartfelt letter to ex-teammates, wants club to own up to mistreatment

[jonmacTrag]

'I'm not dismissing his allegations, but here's some roundabout excusisms to justify why we should just dismiss it'

Might as well have just written 'I'm not a racist but'

How is your knee then?

You strike me as a knee jerk specialist.

And you might just as well have written of yourself - I am an anti racist fanatic who attacks anyone who doesn't toe the radical white hate line.

I have aboriginal and native american friends and I find your knee jerk reaction but irrational and offensive.

 

[jonmacTrag]

I’m not comfortable with the ‘attention seeker’ reference. I acknowledge what you mean by it, and also Lumumba’s track record. I’ve already described him as annoying and irritating.

But we have to be cautious about dismissing his claims on this basis, and then feeling justified in doing so. We have to separate out what we don’t like about him from what he is saying about our club. It’s no trivial matter.

I was at pains to point out that I had no intention of dismissing his claims.

And H certainly wasn't anywhere near as annoying as the Garben type who vilify anyone who doesn't pant with eagerness to attack anyone who claims racist claims.

 

[barrackers]

This is a complex issue that none of us here can comment on with great certainty/authority.

McGuire is a white man in his mid 50's like many Aussie blokes of that vintage. We, including McGuire, cannot possibly appreciate nor understand what it is like to be black/aboriginal in terms of their mindset, beliefs and treatment. So I suspect that McGuire is not a racist but rather a bloke, like most of us, who makes comment but without intimate knowledge/understanding.

No doubt McGuire talks without thinking, in part it's because of his media role and wanting to be one of blokes, but he needs to be better. It's not a racial thing either; McGuire's gaff about Caroline Wilson comes to mind. It's part of the reason why I think it was smart of McGuire to not speak much to Lumumba's concerns on Footy Classified.

Harry may genuinely have his grievances however I can completely understand why he would not meet with McGuire one on one. Furthermore, he would know that McGuire has a significant media advantage and possibly wouldn't trust the messages that may come out as a result of any private meeting.

McGuire made no comment about a one on one meeting or any restriction on attendees. In fact he referenced Dawes who was still in contact with Lumumba also residing in the USA. Understandably McGuire wants to discuss the matter with Lumumba before progressing further, perhaps gain a better idea of his concerns, apologise privately and may be in turn publicly.

Ultimately McGuire needs to take ownership of this issue as he is indirectly responsible for putting the club in the spotlight ie his comments regarding Goodes. Flippant public motherhood statements may not suffice this time.

I've lost count of how many times McGuire has publicly owned his gaff and stupid comments on Goodes. He's also spoken about the concerns Lumumba has raised many times now without wanting to get into a to and fro. If according to you a private meeting with Lumumba isn't possible and McGuire's repeated ownership of the Goodes' remarks isn't good enough for you what more do you expect?

 

[sideswipe]

'I'm not dismissing his allegations, but here's some roundabout excusisms to justify why we should just dismiss it'

Might as well have just written 'I'm not a racist but'

Knew you would be wrong. "I have friends" was always the more likely way to go.

 

[barrackers]

Interesting reading these comments made by Lumumba's manager in 2014. I forgot that he played a further year (2014) in black and white after publicly standing up for Goodes (2013).

Heritier Lumumba accused of going ‘politically mad’ by Mick McGuane

Collingwood’s Heritier Lumumba has gone ‘politically mad’, says former Magpie Mick McGuane, and may leave club amid row over ‘homophobic’ graffiti

www.theguardian.com

“Heritier and the club have had some issues and yes a bit of history there and now it is coming to the point where he is contracted for next year but both parties will decide whether it is best for Heretier to be there next year,” Lumumba’s manager Ben Niall said.

“Both parties are going to spend some time thinking about what they do from here. Do they both decide they can work through this or is it time to go their own way and maybe he has to move to a new club? Heritier loves Collingwood and respects Nathan Buckley and he acknowledges that the way he expresses himself at times can be problematic and he needs to modify how he expresses himself going forward whether that is at Collingwood or at another club.”

 

[Prestigerrycomo]

Recent episode of SBS insight with his brother Gabriel is quite informative of his early life.

 

[frizzle]

H was about 10 years ahead of his time as far as equality on race, sex & gender etc was concerned. We are all still catching up in 2020.
If he feels slighted by the coach & prez, then we should make more effort to heal the rift.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Regardless of what you think of the source, I just can’t get past that Heritier was called a “Chimp” and apparently “Slave”. WTF is that about? Who in their right mind would think to do that? It absolutely sickens me...

Moreover, why is it only our indigenous players at the time and Shae Mac, an American recruit, who heard the comment/supported him? That divide within the club is very concerning...

 

[SprooseMoose]

I find times like these tricky as a supporter. You have to balance a natural desire to defend the club that you love and those in it, against a confronting and uncomfortable situation.

Couple Heritier's, let's say, "outspoken" or "unreliable" nature with the fact that no one hear actually knows what/how things went down, I don' think there's a helpful comment I could make, that doesn't come off as dismissive. It does seem like he has genuine grievances, that we can as club address properly if we want to. I hope we do so, in a heartfelt and meaningful way, and that we don't just go into media management crisis mode. Because the club has enough money and exposure to turn this into a positive, even if Eddie remains unable to personally reconcile things with Heritier.

This doesn't have to end badly.

 

[Gaben]

I'll take 'I have aboriginal friends' for 100, Alex

How is your knee then?

You strike me as a knee jerk specialist.

And you might just as well have written of yourself - I am an anti racist fanatic who attacks anyone who doesn't toe the radical white hate line.

I have aboriginal and native american friends and I find your knee jerk reaction but irrational and offensive.

 

[TradeDraft]

Regardless of what you think of the source, I just can’t get past that Heritier was called a “Chimp” and apparently “Slave”. WTF is that about? Who in their right mind would think to do that? It absolutely sickens me...

Moreover, why is it only our indigenous players at the time and Shae Mac, an American recruit, who heard the comment/supported him? That divide within the club is very concerning...

So why has it taken so long for the Full Story to come out?

 

[Captivating]

So why has it taken so long for the Full Story to come out?

Does it matter why?

Do we discredit woman who have come about after being sexually harassed years after it happened.

A lot of woman saw #metoo as a chance to finally come out and tell their side of the story

I would say H has seen #BLM as the chance to come out and tell the full story here.

 

[NYRB]

I get the feeling these days with social media and the political correctness, some things said in yesteryear would get closer attention today. No doubt casual racism existed in workplaces back in the day.

 

[hellfire]

“I meant to say the exact opposite”. LOL. Same old excuses for Eddie.

He has learned nothing from his mistakes.

If memory serves, he made a (very stupid) comment that Goodes would probably be willing to help to promote the King Kong musical given the racism incident at the MCG where Goodes was called an ape. I don't think there was any malice in the comment, he was merely connecting the two incidents for a stupid, tone deaf joke. If you give Ed the benefit of the doubt, he might have actually trying to connect them as a means of saying Goodes could use it to bring awareness to the issue, but perhaps that's being too generous.

My take on this issue is that Lumumba probably did experience casual racism within the club as a player, and if so, he does deserve an apology for that. Nobody, regardless of how much of a flog they are, should be put in that position anywhere, let alone their place of employment.

With that said, I do think Lumumba has approached this rather strangely - he claims he experienced racism for 8 years, but only singled out Bucks, not Malthouse, who would have overseen the majority of it. So even though I do believe there is truth to it, I also think he has an axe to grind with some individuals, and is using this bad experience to drive two agendas, one of which is altruistic and genuine in his intent to drive positive change, and one that is self-absorbed in looking to slight individuals that saw him exit the club on bad terms.

Whilst I'll never respect the party drug lifestyle he was notorious for, I'll always respect him as a player and I do think he is a good person with good intentions, but he needs to just focus on the first agenda and go about it in a constructive way. I don't think there would be anybody who wouldn't support him in that endeavour.

 

[Help My Club]

No doubt McGuire talks without thinking, in part it's because of his media role and wanting to be one of blokes, but he needs to be better. It's not a racial thing either; McGuire's gaff about Caroline Wilson comes to mind. It's part of the reason why I think it was smart of McGuire to not speak much to Lumumba's concerns on Footy Classified.


McGuire made no comment about a one on one meeting or any restriction on attendees. In fact he referenced Dawes who was still in contact with Lumumba also residing in the USA. Understandably McGuire wants to discuss the matter with Lumumba before progressing further, perhaps gain a better idea of his concerns, apologise privately and may be in turn publicly.


I've lost count of how many times McGuire has publicly owned his gaff and stupid comments on Goodes. He's also spoken about the concerns Lumumba has raised many times now without wanting to get into a to and fro. If according to you a private meeting with Lumumba isn't possible and McGuire's repeated ownership of the Goodes' remarks isn't good enough for you what more do you expect?

Good response mate.

I expect nothing from McGuire. He doesn't personally affront me other than our limited on field success over the past 5 + years.

Cupla comments:

(i) I may have misinterpreted it but I think McGuire said last night on FC that he has attempted to contact Harry which would likely result in a meeting. Obviously Harry has declined. This could be interpreted one of 2 ways : (i) Harry is genuinely offended/upset (ii) He is taking advantage of the current hot climate.

(ii) We now live in a world where political correctness is at the forefront. Some would say it's gone mad. I wouldn't dare put words in McGuire's mouth but if you give me a little licence here, he really had no choice but to repeatedly apologise for the Goodes gaffe. Society/Media demanded it. There was no upside in not apologising. A public apology was the minimum acceptable requirement and smart. You are right - he is one of the lads. Old school! Alot worse has and continues to be said behind closed doors at sporting clubs, yes even in modern 2020.

 

[jonmacTrag]

I'll take 'I have aboriginal friends' for 100, Alex

Goodbye.

 

[Dan Moody]

Does it matter why?

Do we discredit woman who have come about after being sexually harassed years after it happened.

A lot of woman saw #metoo as a chance to finally come out and tell their side of the story

I would say H has seen #BLM as the chance to come out and tell the full story here.

Good post, however for as many women who had justification to come out and tell their story and achieve well deserved redemption, there were a hell of a lot of the John Jarratt accusers that did it out of vindictiveness

 

[jonmacTrag]

Good post, however for as many women who had justification to come out and tell their story and achieve well deserved redemption, there were a hell of a lot of the John Jarratt accusers that did it out of vindictiveness

Finally someone who doesn't blindly accept unproven accusations.

 

[BoxMatrix]

Good post, however for as many women who had justification to come out and tell their story and achieve well deserved redemption, there were a hell of a lot of the John Jarratt accusers that did it out of vindictiveness

Victim blaming 'ay?

 

[Dan Moody]

Victim blaming 'ay?

Did you miss the bit about "women who had justification"?

Unfortunately, for every person that has been legitimately harmed by sexual assault or racism, there are people out there that will use these accusations to harm innocent people.

Syd Jackson deserves no praise

All the accolades for Syd Jackson in the Herald Sun today make me sick. When reported for striking Lee Adamson of Collingwood in the Second Semi Final of 1970, he said he did it because Adamson racially abused him and the tribunal let him off. He then got to play in the 1970 Grand Final...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[NYRB]

I personally feel Lumumba should just move on now. The context of the times is different. Casual racism would have been rampant in the 90's , look at the Footy Show as an example. This may be a strange suggestion but couldn't it have been easy for Lumumba to stand up to his team guys back then and say "guys I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me Chimp".

Even back in the university days, casual racism was rampant. But my university put out a message 'needling' someone isn't acceptable. With the players becoming more educated, I think players, especially the younger ones coming through are very good on it now.

 

[domus]

I didn't think the light discussion in the Media thread was giving enough light to what is unfurling as an increasingly key and historical event in the history of our football club. It's a serious topic and one that the supporters have the power to lead the way to answers to. Our club has an obligation to answer to the damning claims made by Heritier that have been backed up by fellow non-White players who witnessed and possibly experienced similar treatment.

Our premiership star and cult hero Heritier Lumumba has copped an unfair barrage of criticism and belittling since he brought his personal issues to the public eye in 2013 and 2014. The current racial tensions and protesting is the #1 topic worldwide right now, and Heritier has used the opportunity to remind us that our football club is far from perfect, and he has asked for recognition of their wrongdoing, and for an apology, which he deserves.

In case you're out of the loop, Heritier made this post on Facebook a couple of days ago:




I've personally begun to come to terms with the fact that I have been quite racist and bigoted in the past, mostly due to my failure to understand the daily obstacles that non-white persons face that I don't. I'm attempting to try and understand and be more open-minded, and simply give more time to things that stretch outside my comfort zone. I don't want this to be a protesting and rioting debate nor a discussion of Black Lives Matter etc, more just a civil discussion on where our club is at in terms of race relations, how it's improved since then and how it can continue to improve from here, because as stated previously, the club is far from perfect and needs to own up to its poor decisions.

This is Heritier's letter he has sent out to his former teammates.



It's an intense letter, but one you'd be hard pressed to find anything to raise queries on. Heritier elaborates on the "courage" and "nobility" that comes with toughness on a football field. If you crash packs, and put yourself on the line for something great, that displays courage. But on this occasion, Heritier put his name on the line for something far greater than football - the civilised treatment of somebody different - and he faced a totally unjust outcome. He was shushed and made an outcast, when the club knew that they had wronged.

Collingwood cannot hide from these accusations any further. They have an obligation to answer to every call not only for Heritier, but for the sake of all players, supporters, members, and anybody else in the greater public with a vested interest.

I know, personally speaking, that I would be far more proud of supporting a football club that has acknowledged its wrongs and is pressing movement for change, than supporting a club that continues to cover up the blatant, the obvious, and continues to disregard mistreated individuals. We cannot continue to take from our players of colour, only to dismiss them when they become brave enough to use their voice.

There's no public image to save. The ignorance will only hurt the club further in the future. The silence is deafening and we're owed an answer.

One side in history will prevail, and it's not the side Collingwood are currently standing on.

I have never been racist or bigoted in the past, so I don't have any personal guilt which requires cleansing.

I do know that context is everything. I have endearingly called my older sister "bitch" for a lifetime. When we say goodbye on the phone it's often, "Bye Bitch!" We are soulmates and as close as a brother and sister could be. She could rush to the media one day and say "My brother called me a bitch on frequent occasions!" The media could say-"Is this true? Yes or no? I would have to say "yes". Cue shock, horror, abuse for my disrespect to a woman....

At best, the nickname given to Harry ( if his recall is accurate) would have been founded in affection and a cheeky sense of irony. That is not racism. Harry's letter would have anyone who is unfamiliar with a our competition believing our club holds our indigenous players in contempt and deliberately maligned and humiliated them on the basis of their colour.

Does anyone believe this for one moment?

A racist football club would have players refusing to share a locker with a black player. They would isolate and ignore the black player. They would refuse to socialise or be on friendly terms with the black player. They may even demand the black player be delisted and a racist club would comply.

There is a chasm between ignorance or taking the piss out of a teammate and genuine racism. It's much more complex than Harry's letter seems to indicate. Did he hang out with his teammates in a social sense? Was he ever deliberately excluded from group activities or not invited to social events?

I get tired of the accusations of racism directed at our club. I think it is rubbish. We don't need to be reminded that our club is far from perfect. We already know it. Any institution with people in it will be. But to brand an entire club racist in a very public manner is as nasty and reputation destroying an accusation as branding someone a pedophile. It is a deeply wounding accusation which had better be backed up with irrefutable evidence.

 

[domus]

'I'm not dismissing his allegations, but here's some roundabout excusisms to justify why we should just dismiss it'

Might as well have just written 'I'm not a racist but'

Krakouer himself just said it wasn't racist and not meant to upset him. I'll take his word for it. Context and motivation is very important.

 

[domus]

Victim blaming 'ay?

Men who are falsely accused are the victims.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Victim blaming 'ay?

No not victim blaming - simply not mindlessly jumping to unproven conclusions.