Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

[Kurve]

Here is
- Claremont Murders - Part One and Part Two
- Media
- The Bunker
- Hey Bret? Stalking Claremont the book.
- Justice Hall's Decision 619 pgs

 

[BonzaRam]

I have given up on finding a consistent MO with Edwards.

In Huntingdale he broke into someone’s house and attacked her in her bed.

In HH he acted on seeming impulse in a fairly public place and attacked Ms Davis in a blitz style attack.

In KK he aggressively abducted her off the street in a quiet park area.

In Ciara’s case he appeared to lure her into the vehicle by offering a lift.

In Jane’s case he may have known her; he may have lured her somehow; or he may have taken advantage of her being drunk & hitchhiking and gotten her in a blitz attack. Any of these are plausible and I can’t rule any out because of his other crimes.

I think the incident in Innaloo is equally as plausible as the women who think they were offered lifts by him around Claremont.

Yep that is the conundrum of psychopaths/sociopaths, you can never tell what they will do next, or why...looking at the 3 girls that were murdered there is no indication to show a blitz attack. SS was standing on the side of the road wait for a taxi. Being that she was drunk, although not overly drunk, she probably got into the vehicle believing it was a taxi, JR the last confirmed sighting we know of is leaning against pole outside the club, if a blitz attacked occurred there we would know about it, and CG if we go on some sightings was seen leaning against a vehicle and was then gone, this indicates she also willingly got into the vehicle.

 

[JezzaPerth]

We don’t know that at all.

As far as I know there is no forensic evidence to show Jane and Ciara were gagged and/or bound.

If Jane was gagged, how was she screaming in Wellard? And how did both women have defensive wounds on their arms that were likely flung up to protect themselves?

We have no conclusive knowledge of what transpired in those cars. Jane and Edwards could have been chatting the whole time for all we know, with Jane having no idea of the danger she was in. In Ciara’s case we don’t even have a reference point for how long she was in the car and whether she was even conscious for all of that period of time.

Well If I was a serial attacker of women who had had success with gags and bindings before I don't think I'd go out on a murder cruise without them but with a sharp weapon.

 

[Port Adel Proud]

BRE must be sentenced to life imprisonment. Even if a minimum term were imposed, there can be no direction to the Prisoners Review Board regarding the giving of parole nor, of course, regarding the residual discretion of the executive (governor on the advice of the attorney general).

However, it would be constitutionally permissible to enact legislation, only applicable to BRE, to the effect that should he disclose the whereabouts of SS within a period of time, then he would be released, on parole, after a mandated term. I suggest this is the only way to secure SS's remains and, to some extent, give "closure". Say a 28 year, or so, mandated term would give some incentive to BRE; the prospect of a dotage as a relatively free man might attract him

 

[Coastie19]

Yep that is the conundrum of psychopaths/sociopaths, you can never tell what they will do next, or why...looking at the 3 girls that were murdered there is no indication to show a blitz attack. SS was standing on the side of the road wait for a taxi. Being that she was drunk, although not overly drunk, she probably got into the vehicle believing it was a taxi, JR the last confirmed sighting we know of is leaning against pole outside the club, if a blitz attacked occurred there we would know about it, and CG if we go on some sightings was seen leaning against a vehicle and was then gone, this indicates she also willingly got into the vehicle.

I also don't think so much emphasis should be put on him having a definitive MO. I know serial killers have them but I think BREs victims over the years were in a higher risk category than a lot of serial killers we know of who target sex workers, whereby them getting into a car etc essentially lets them do whatever they want afterwards and play out their MO following the non-suspicious initial contact. He offended in different ways in high risk situations and was incredibly lucky not to get caught earlier than he did. I agree there was no indication of blitz in some cases at the initial contact, but could have come about shortly after driving off once he felt safe out of the populated area

 

[Kurve]

BRE must be sentenced to life imprisonment. Even if a minimum term were imposed, there can be no direction to the Prisoners Review Board regarding the giving of parole nor, of course, regarding the residual discretion of the executive (governor on the advice of the attorney general).

However, it would be constitutionally permissible to enact legislation, only applicable to BRE, to the effect that should he disclose the whereabouts of SS within a period of time, then he would be released, on parole, after a mandated term. I suggest this is the only way to secure SS's remains and, to some extent, give "closure". Say a 28 year, or so, mandated term would give some incentive to BRE; the prospect of a dotage as a relatively free man might attract him

Tom Percy QC in the last podcast says there's no chance of doing any deals with BRE whatsoever and there is no incentive whatsoever for him to say where Sarah is.

It's not for me to argue with a QC over this but I think he's wrong. Very wrong.

 

[BonzaRam]

BRE must be sentenced to life imprisonment. Even if a minimum term were imposed, there can be no direction to the Prisoners Review Board regarding the giving of parole nor, of course, regarding the residual discretion of the executive (governor on the advice of the attorney general).

However, it would be constitutionally permissible to enact legislation, only applicable to BRE, to the effect that should he disclose the whereabouts of SS within a period of time, then he would be released, on parole, after a mandated term. I suggest this is the only way to secure SS's remains and, to some extent, give "closure". Say a 28 year, or so, mandated term would give some incentive to BRE; the prospect of a dotage as a relatively free man might attract him

The no body no parole laws already exist in WA but apart from that how can they ask him to reveal the location of a body he was not convicted of any crime against?

 

[ms finch]

Yep that is the conundrum of psychopaths/sociopaths, you can never tell what they will do next, or why...looking at the 3 girls that were murdered there is no indication to show a blitz attack. SS was standing on the side of the road wait for a taxi. Being that she was drunk, although not overly drunk, she probably got into the vehicle believing it was a taxi, JR the last confirmed sighting we know of is leaning against pole outside the club, if a blitz attacked occurred there we would know about it, and CG if we go on some sightings was seen leaning against a vehicle and was then gone, this indicates she also willingly got into the vehicle.

I do wonder what prompted him to start using his car. Had he done it before? Was he just driving home from somewhere one night and suddenly seized an opportunity? Did he read about it somewhere? Did he genuinely offer a lift to someone once and he realised afterward what an opportunity it was? Did he develop a fantasy that involved a car?

 

[ms finch]

Tom Percy QC in the last podcast says there's no chance of doing any deals with BRE whatsoever and there is no incentive whatsoever for him to say where Sarah is.

It's not for me to argue with a QC over this but I think he's wrong. Very wrong.

Nah, I think Percy would probably be fine to have the debate. It is, after all, what he does for a living. But in any case he’s a lawyer not a forensic psychologist so while I’m sure he has some insight I am also sure there’s other insight. I certainly don’t agree with some of his comments on Catherine Birnie.

 

[Port Adel Proud]

The no body no parole laws already exist in WA but apart from that how can they ask him to reveal the location of a body he was not convicted of any crime against?

No body no parole laws don't solve the problem in BRE's case because he will not get parole on the charges for which he has been convicted.
They have, no doubt, asked him already and will do it again. My suggestion has nothing to do with charging him or convicting him of anything; it's about securing the remains of SS.

 

[BonzaRam]

I do wonder what prompted him to start using his car. Had he done it before? Was he just driving home from somewhere one night and suddenly seized an opportunity? Did he read about it somewhere? Did he genuinely offer a lift to someone once and he realised afterward what an opportunity it was? Did he develop a fantasy that involved a car?

I suspect he got much of his deviate education from the movies and stories he used to watch and read. Being that he was an avid net surfer i would think he mainly went to sites that feed his *cough cough* interests. if i remember rightly there 1000s of bookmarks found on his computer to controversial websites. We also know he wrote his own horror stories, the inspiration for doing that probably came from reading such stories.

Like you yourself have mentioned before on here, narcissists are always scheming, ALWAYS...

 

[BonzaRam]

No body no parole laws don't solve the problem in BRE's case because he will not get parole on the charges for which he has been convicted. they have, no doubt, asked him already and will do it again. My suggestion has nothing to do with charging him or convicting him of anything; it's abot securing the remains of SS.

I am with you wholeheartedly on finding SS and using any means necessary, but the reality is he was acquitted of any wrong doing in the disappearance of SS, for him to offer up a location of the body is tantamount to him pleading guilty to being involved in her disappearance. It is not going to happen...

 

[Kurve]

Nah, I think Percy would probably be fine to have the debate. It is, after all, what he does for a living. But in any case he’s a lawyer not a forensic psychologist so while I’m sure he has some insight I am also sure there’s other insight. I certainly don’t agree with some of his comments on Catherine Birnie.

I'm not sure it was a debate, he was very adamant there could be no benefit whatsoever for BRE to say where Sarah is. Most of us know that deals are done all the time.

 

[BFew]

For those of us on the Eastern seaboard or with VPN's to pretend they are, Nine's 60minutes show including the interview with the 1990 Hollywood Hospital CSK victim, starts in just over 15 minutes.

 

[BonzaRam]

For those of us on the Eastern seaboard or with VPN's to pretend they are, Nine's 60minutes show including the interview with the 1990 Hollywood Hospital CSK victim, starts in just over 15 minutes.

It is on free to air in SA.

 

[BFew]

It is on free to air in SA.

I was meaning that people outside of AEST can watch it earlier than it shows in their time zone.

 

[Port Adel Proud]

I am with you wholeheartedly on finding SS and using any means necessary, but the reality is he was acquitted of any wrong doing in the disappearance of SS, for him to offer up a location of the body is tantamount to him pleading guilty to being involved in her disappearance. It is not going to happen...

My solution (which is elegant in that it is available in spite of the not guilty verdcit on SS) gives him hope of release which he doesn't have now .Do you really think he would care about tantamount guilt? He might, just might, care about freedom though.

 

[ms finch]

I'm not sure it was a debate, he was very adamant there could be no benefit whatsoever for BRE to say where Sarah is. Most of us know that deals are done all the time.

I was really just trying to say in a funny way that you’re as entitled to your opinion on this as Percy is to his.

I think the only way to get anything out of Edwards on Sarah would be to offer him immunity from prosecution in exchange for her remains, and of course substantial privileges. Otherwise there is no incentive because he has been acquitted.

Percy himself has said that if a body turned up Edwards could be retried (there are some exceptions to double jeopardy). I don’t think there would be much chance of it even with a body because I think it’s very unlikely there is any forensic evidence after this long. Perhaps if she was found in a location that linked to him. So I don’t see him selling himself out like that because his revelation would be the one link to him.

I think a better chance to link him would be to find the missing items from the women and link them to him. But probably zero hope of that unless someone stumbles across something.

Regardless, I don’t think Edwards will go for it at all. I don’t think it matters what is offered. I just don’t see him ever acknowledging it.

 

[Port Adel Proud]

Tom Percy QC in the last podcast says there's no chance of doing any deals with BRE whatsoever and there is no incentive whatsoever for him to say where Sarah is.

It's not for me to argue with a QC over this but I think he's wrong. Very wrong.

TF Percy QC. Summary: an adequate brief for a pub glassing case.

 

[Kurve]

Wendy Davis didn't know until through the trial that BRE had been ordered onto a sex offenders course. But she did know that Telstra and the police just weren't listening to her.

 

[javaguice]

My thinking on this might be explained better.

I know for a fact psychologists/criminologists/profilers would have told investigators if they didn't already know it, the CSK was almost certainly already in their files and that would have come to their attention before. That he was right under their noses.

The cops are saying he didn't stand out because the HH attack was only listed as an assault. Seriously? The victim was a woman but that aside I'm suggesting that surely someone in there would have known that sometimes plead down common assaults do in fact have a sexual element and that they might be blind to it unless they scratch the surface. That perhaps they should then look at who was ordered onto a sex offenders program, just in case.

Even if they asked for a list of whoever had been on it in the prior five years, it probably still would have taken less than a day to pin him to take a harder look at.

At a minimum, they should have linked KK attack with HH attack....like, a Telstra worker does that....and then they have a security guard at the same hospital reporting a telstra van cruising past after a girl rocks up with reportedly telephone cable ties....

I mean, come on lads.

 

[Kurve]

This 60 Mins segment is devastating. Telstra and WA Police are in very deep **it.

 

[javaguice]

Tom Percy QC in the last podcast says there's no chance of doing any deals with BRE whatsoever and there is no incentive whatsoever for him to say where Sarah is.

It's not for me to argue with a QC over this but I think he's wrong. Very wrong.

Indeed - once he realises how forked he is he will start considering the benefits of opening his mouth. He can make his loooong stay a bit sweeter if he wants, its up to him.

 

[javaguice]

This 60 Mins segment is devastating. Telstra and WA Police are in very deep **it.

Link? Plz?

 

[Kurve]

Link? Plz?

It's not up online yet.

 

[javaguice]

I suspect he got much of his deviate education from the movies and stories he used to watch and read. Being that he was an avid net surfer i would think he mainly went to sites that feed his *cough cough* interests. if i remember rightly there 1000s of bookmarks found on his computer to controversial websites. We also know he wrote his own horror stories, the inspiration for doing that probably came from reading such stories.

Like you yourself have mentioned before on here, narcissists are always scheming, ALWAYS...

The sad reality is he probably had something terrible happen to him in his youth that fused violence and sex together.....