Preview Round 6, 2021: Port Adelaide v St.Kilda - Adelaide Oval, Sunday 25th April, 6:40PM AEST

[SaintsSeptember]

The Dogs list depth is far and away the league outlier, so comparing to them is unfair. Our depth and list profile is definitely no worse than league average, we just so happen to have horrendous injuries.

And on the Dogs, yes they have nailed their early draft picks (Macrae, Bailey Smith, Naughton, Dunkley etc.).

But they've also been gifted father sons (Lachie Hunter, Mitch Wallis, Libba), academy freaks (Jamarra Ugle Hagan), lucked out with Bont (pick 4 turned out to be far and away the best pick to have in that draft because the unanimous top 3 picks in the draft happened to be worse than the fourth best), lucked out with Treloar, lucked out with Caleb Daniel (any draft pick in the 50s is a punt).

And then let's not pretend that they haven't had their fare share of trade fu** ups. Tom Boyd, Josh Schache, Josh Bruce (it's only a matter of time before he's out of the team).

Can you imagine if instead of using draft picks we got three of our best mids and our once in a generation key forward from father sons and academy selections!? All we've ever got was Bailey ******* Rice. And to top it all off, they manage to be the first team in modern history to fluke a premiership.

So no, we are not going to be replicating the Bulldogs.

We could have gotten Biggy, but we declined. Did he play on the weekend?

 

[plugger66]

He is at best a slight statistical improvement on Paul Hunter this season who has been labelled as useless. both have played as ruckman.

Both have a record of 1 win and 2 losses from their 3 games.

don’t talk sh*t and make up a narrative. We have been good awful in the centre in all but one game.

guess who played that one?

marshall.

and in the 4 he hasn’t played, of which Atleast one of Hunter or Carlisle have played in. We have been slapped and uncompetitive in the midfield bar periods of round 1.

Pretty sure in that game Marshall played in Carlisle had a big bearing on the result. And in the other 2 Carlisle probably rucked about 25% in the Essendon game. He did nearly the whole last quarter and that about the only time we looked even fair. Last week he was ordinary. And imo due to the 5 day break. You accuse me of making up a narrative and then you go and basically say Carlisle was one of the main reasons we lost 2 of the games. Sorry but that’s just crap. Using results is quite hilarious. May as well say Steele has only played in 2 winning sides but 3 losing ones. Let’s put the blame on him. I’d rather just watch the game and actually see how the players are going.

 

[George]

Lethlean was a media manager at the AFL, the AFL were concerned enough to send him in to protect their investment. Unfortunately we ended up with the AFLs little problem instead of an experienced operator like Brisbane and Melbourne got. He might end up doing really well at his job and he gets stuff done but why can't we ever have the best of anything?

Haha what

St Kilda appoints former AFL executive Simon Lethlean as new football boss

Lethlean returns: Ex-AFL executive lands Saints job

www.foxsports.com.au

Wasn't a media manager...

 

[BrutThough]

We could have gotten Biggy, but we declined. Did he play on the weekend?

He didn't. Also not on their injury list.

 

[The Punter]

The Carlisle analysis is a little unfair, but only a little. He's not a natural ruckman, but did well against Naitanui because of preparation. It was clear a strategy had been developed to combat Naitanui when it was Carlisle versus Naitanui in the ruck.

What preparation could have possibly been done to deal with Marlon Pickett in the ruck? Zero. You just needed to monster him, something a natural AFL-grade ruckman could have done. Like when Jared Brennan

Jared Brennan

Age

39

Ht

195cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

5.9

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

1.6

2star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.8

4star

went up against Trent Knobel

Trent Knobel

Age

43

Ht

204cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.8

1star

K

2.1

1star

HB

3.7

3star

HO

15.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

1.8

1star

K

0.8

1star

HB

1.0

2star

HO

7.4

5star

in the ruck in 2004, and Knobel just stuck a knee out and folded Brennan like a deck chair.

I would prefer if Carlisle just followed the forward/ruckman everywhere - starts on him as a defender, follows him into the ruck, follows him onto the bench. But that is not happening, meaning Carlisle has to play forward which he's not great at.

It will be interesting to see how things go this week selection wise, but this much is true - Carlisle won't be playing when both Ryder and Marshall are playing (unless we have a stretch of severe key defender unavailability).

 

[CaptainRisky]

We could have gotten Biggy, but we declined. Did he play on the weekend?

Nah he didnt

 

[stavro#4]

Pretty sure in that game Marshall played in Carlisle had a big bearing on the result. And in the other 2 Carlisle probably rucked about 25% in the Essendon game. He did nearly the whole last quarter and that about the only time we looked even fair. Last week he was ordinary. And imo due to the 5 day break. You accuse me of making up a narrative and then you go and basically say Carlisle was one of the main reasons we lost 2 of the games. Sorry but that’s just crap. Using results is quite hilarious. May as well say Steele has only played in 2 winning sides but 3 losing ones. Let’s put the blame on him. I’d rather just watch the game and actually see how the players are going.

1. I gave credit for Carlisle against Nic Nat. But his ruckwork wasn’t why he played well.
2.Essendon kicked 6 goals in the last quarter. Carlisle must of made a huge difference if your saying we looked better.
3. Your making more s**t up with the underlined to suit your agenda. Not one person from the saints has said the 5 day break got us.
4. Did I say Carlisle was one of the main reasons we lost or did I say he tried but isn’t a ruckmans arsehole ?

I spoke about Carlisle in the ruck and pretty much said he is as effective as Hunter who is labelled as useless.

but trust your eyes. I mean you still haven’t noticed how warped your perception of everything is.

 

[gringo2011]

1. I gave credit for Carlisle against Nic Nat. But his ruckwork wasn’t why he played well.
2.Essendon kicked 6 goals in the last quarter. Carlisle must of made a huge difference if your saying we looked better.
3. Your making more sh*t up with the underlined to suit your agenda. Not one person from the saints has said the 5 day break got us.
4. Did I say Carlisle was one of the main reasons we lost or did I say he tried but isn’t a ruckmans arsehole ?

I spoke about Carlisle in the ruck and pretty much said he is as effective as Hunter who is labelled as useless.

but trust your eyes. I mean you still haven’t noticed how warped your perception of everything is.

Carlisle actually rucked really well against Nic Nat but he was terrible last week. He looked worse than Hunter against Richmond.

 

[CaptainRisky]

The Carlisle analysis is a little unfair, but only a little. He's not a natural ruckman, but did well against Naitanui because of preparation. It was clear a strategy had been developed to combat Naitanui when it was Carlisle versus Naitanui in the ruck.

What preparation could have possibly been done to deal with Marlon Pickett in the ruck? Zero. You just needed to monster him, something a natural AFL-grade ruckman could have done. Like when Jared Brennan went up against Trent Knobel in the ruck in 2004, and Knobel just stuck a knee out and folded Brennan like a deck chair.

I would prefer if Carlisle just followed the forward/ruckman everywhere - starts on him as a defender, follows him into the ruck, follows him onto the bench. But that is not happening, meaning Carlisle has to play forward which he's not great at.

It will be interesting to see how things go this week selection wise, but this much is true - Carlisle won't be playing when both Ryder and Marshall are playing (unless we have a stretch of severe key defender unavailability).

Im no fan of Jakes as everyone would know but back in 2014 Jake was as good a forward as anyone on his day , he could actually jump and run back then , now he moves like me which isn't pretty

 

[Dr Spaceman]

We could have gotten Biggy, but we declined. Did he play on the weekend?

Nah he didnt

So...

k

 

[CaptainRisky]

So what does everyone think of Jake as a ruckman ,

 

[Mowman]

Carlisle actually rucked really well against Nic Nat but he was terrible last week. He looked worse than Hunter against Richmond.

He was good against the bombers
I just want him playing CHB where he belongs

 

[kernelT]

We are happy being mediocre club obviously.

Paying the people to fix drafting and trading by bringing in quality would be an obvious start.

But you can't have it both ways though mate, keeping mediocre players like Bruce, Hind, Newnes, Savage, Marsh & Phillips would be sitting on our hands. The club turned over 13 players last trade period and brought in Crouch and Higgins, so they're clearly making effort to improve the list… not every hit will be a home run.

 

[Mowman]

Gee a few using the injury’s as an excuse, yeah we have had a few but so has every club
Marshall and Ryder hurts big time
But Ryder is 34 year old
Paton a big loss
Geary 32/33 his last year
Frawley 33 never played a game for us
Hannas 12 games in 2 and half years

just shows how poor our list profile is and how poor our development of youngsters is

 

[Mowman]

Ora guy who was played out of position and left to play better in that position?

Would prefer him on our list over
Dunstan Dmac and Long

 

[George]

Gee a few using the injury’s as an excuse, yeah we have had a few but so has every club
Marshall and Ryder hurts big time
But Ryder is 34 year old
Paton a big loss
Geary 32/33 his last year
Frawley 33 never played a game for us
Hannas 12 games in 2 and half years

just shows how poor our list profile is and how poor our development of youngsters is

I guess the difference is that our injuries have all come to one position and the others have been to key players.

I don't think many teams would still succeed using their third and fourth string ruckmen.

That's not to excuse the effort which has been deplorable, but it doesn't help.

 

[Plugger35]

Gee a few using the injury’s as an excuse, yeah we have had a few but so has every club
Marshall and Ryder hurts big time
But Ryder is 34 year old
Paton a big loss
Geary 32/33 his last year
Frawley 33 never played a game for us
Hannas 12 games in 2 and half years

just shows how poor our list profile is and how poor our development of youngsters is

The lack of quality youngsters coming through is a worry, other than Bytel we don't seem to have anyone really knocking the door down to get a game.

This is where trading those draft picks for Hill hurts, it wouldn't be so bad if he was tearing it up and in our best players every week but he isn't.

 

[Yawkey way]

Haha what

St Kilda appoints former AFL executive Simon Lethlean as new football boss

Lethlean returns: Ex-AFL executive lands Saints job

www.foxsports.com.au

Wasn't a media manager...

St Kilda is a club with a clear vision, a united administration, a very strong coach and a young talented list,” Lethlean said.

That hasn’t aged well and the Hannebery deal was an absolute shocker, I don’t mind lethlean but I’m sick of the messiah rubbish it drove me up the wall with bains as well. When one of these guys actually comes through and sticks around to develop a premiership list then I’ll give them the credit they deserve.

Isn‘t he off to geelong at the end of the season, what will his legacy at st Kilda be.

 

[Saintbloke]

Gee a few using the injury’s as an excuse, yeah we have had a few but so has every club
Marshall and Ryder hurts big time
But Ryder is 34 year old
Paton a big loss
Geary 32/33 his last year
Frawley 33 never played a game for us
Hannas 12 games in 2 and half years

just shows how poor our list profile is and how poor our development of youngsters is

Pretty damning, we relied on a ruckman near the end of his career, to be probably our most influential player last season. It is good though that Bytel is coming along nicely, and Byrnes has a lot of upside although Ratts played him in some weird defensive role in his game last year rather than on the ball. Sadly, I can't see a lot more coming through that might push for a game this season.

 

[FQFjt]

Josh Bruce is pretty much exactly what they wanted. He'll lose his spot to Ugle-Hagen but that's because he's a number one pick and is going to be a massive upgrade.

We are happy being mediocre club obviously. Most fans seem happy to not be sh*t more than aim high. We are so conditioned to being the worst at everything that when the people administrating the club aren't breaking anything we get excited. I honestly doubt I'll ever see a premiership from this club and will settle for them not humiliating us too by the way.

Paying the people to fix drafting and trading by bringing in quality would be an obvious start. Lethlean was a media manager at the AFL, the AFL were concerned enough to send him in to protect their investment. Unfortunately we ended up with the AFLs little problem instead of an experienced operator like Brisbane and Melbourne got. He might end up doing really well at his job and he gets stuff done but why can't we ever have the best of anything?

I'm so tired of waiting for this club.

I understand your frustration, but the point of my post has nothing to do with accepting mediocrity. The point is that it is dumb to point to the Bulldogs and shout "why can't we have that!?", because the Dogs have received concession after concession on a silver platter, coupled with more than their fair share of good luck.

It's all well and good to talk tough, say we are never going to accept mediocrity, sack everyone and only hire the best of the best, but the fact remains that there is absolutely nothing we could do, or ever could have done, which would allow us to replicate the Dogs' list.

And just by the way, despite their list, they've done sweet * all for 5 years.

 

[George]

St Kilda is a club with a clear vision, a united administration, a very strong coach and a young talented list,” Lethlean said.

That hasn’t aged well and the Hannebery deal was a absolute shocker, I don’t mind lethlean but I’m sick of the messiah rubbish it drove me up the wall with bains as well. When one of these guys actually comes through and sticks around to develop a premiership list then I’ll give then the credit they deserve.

Isn‘t he off to geelong at the end of the season, what will his legacy at st Kilda be.

Haven't heard anything about the Geelong stuff. Didn't say he was a messiah but he wasn't the media manager either and is a much more accomplished operator than most of what we've had the last 30 years.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Gee a few using the injury’s as an excuse, yeah we have had a few but so has every club
Marshall and Ryder hurts big time
But Ryder is 34 year old
Paton a big loss
Geary 32/33 his last year
Frawley 33 never played a game for us
Hannas 12 games in 2 and half years

just shows how poor our list profile is and how poor our development of youngsters is

Can’t forget the impact it has on structure too though.

 

[kernelT]

Gee a few using the injury’s as an excuse, yeah we have had a few but so has every club
Marshall and Ryder hurts big time
But Ryder is 34 year old
Paton a big loss
Geary 32/33 his last year
Frawley 33 never played a game for us
Hannas 12 games in 2 and half years

just shows how poor our list profile is and how poor our development of youngsters is

I reckon part of this is still the hangover of our terrible recruitment from 2008 - 2012. There's no natural senior core.

We have only one player (Ross) still on the list from these drafts, and then 2013-14 we have Billings, Dunstan, McKenzie, Lonie, Sinclair left…

In turn we've had to burn picks in chasing mature players because we're completely falling apart in some areas.

 

[FQFjt]

Can’t forget the impact it has on structure too though.

This is key. The injuries might not look terrible on paper (and they are more extensive than listed here), but they have absolutely decimated our structure and game plan, and have also been concentrated in just 2 areas of the ground.

 

[Mowman]

Haven't heard anything about the Geelong stuff. Didn't say he was a messiah but he wasn't the media manager either and is a much more accomplished operator than most of what we've had the last 30 years.

This is true, has done a lot right
But we are always pumping people up and hoping they will be our miracle man