Autopsy Round 21 = Hawthorn 97-78 Collingwood

[No SPIN]

I haven't thought that far ahead. Interpretative dance?

That’s about as much thought as you put into the first comment.

 

[Looney]

Madgen was far from the worst, what about Quaynor? While we need some height in the back, he must stay.

Yep, Madgen has been pretty good last few weeks. I think he finally realized his limitations and is playing accordingly. The worst player in the team is the one who thinks he is better than what he actually is.

 

[TradeDraft]

Madgen was far from the worst, what about Quaynor? While we need some height in the back, he must stay.

IQ was the Human Turnover Machine with Adams toady.

Would not be hard to be 1 of our best Players Today

 

[TradeDraft]

Yep, Madgen has been pretty good last few weeks. I think he finally realized his limitations and is playing accordingly. The worst player in the team is the one who thinks he is better than what he actually is.

Had Quite a Few of Those today Espically in 1st Half

 

[jathanas]

People are clutching at absolutely anything to blame Grundy for. It's genuinely quite absurd. He was far from perfect, particularly in the first half, but somehow all our flaws are his fault

Rather than blame him why don't we just try to extract more from him?

He is earning the kind of money afforded to match-winners and I think he can be that for us; just not in the way he is currently utilised.

All it might take is to give him extra time in the forward line. He could prove to be the big presence we need up forward. Takes pressure off Checkers and if he can average 1.5 goals a game, we're in business.

As it currently stands players earning half what he does break even with him, or even when he kills them it doesn't really translate to our advantage.

 

[adammania9]

Why don't these teams flick off the switch against other teams? There have been a number of monumental flogging this year. Gold Coast lost by 98 points last week and they are considered an up and coming team. Please explain.

Gold Coast were down by 100 before three quarter time… that game is a prime example of having a switch flicked off by one side who is clearly more dominant than the other.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

Rather than blame him why don't we just try to extract more from him?

He is earning the kind of money afforded to match-winners and I think he can be that for us; just not in the way he is currently utilised.

All it might take is to give him extra time in the forward line. He could prove to be the big presence we need up forward. Takes pressure off Checkers and if he can average 1.5 goals a game, we're in business.

As it currently stands players earning half what he does break even with him, or even when he kills them it doesn't really translate to our advantage.

It's very clear peoples displeasure (mine included) are aimed at his output for the money he's on. When you're not performing to expected standard vs. your remuneration, you're going to cop heat.

Max Lynch must play-out this year as No.1 banana in the centre, with Brodie starting at CHF/FF.

 

[jathanas]

It's very clear peoples displeasure (mine included) are aimed at his output for the money he's on. When you're not performing to expected standard vs. your remuneration, you're going to cop heat.

Max Lynch must play-out this year as No.1 banana in the centre, with Brodie starting at CHF/FF.

I see a big opportunity for the club in the scenario you suggest.

If Lynch can hold down the spot in the ruck I'm sure Brodie can perform as a CHF to a good standard and greatly improve with time.

The problem will be in convincing Brodie to see this as a step forward in his career, and not a step back. Change is difficult for people but if he invests himself in this it could pay off well.

 

[No SPIN]

Can’t play ballistic football every week -its far to taxing and therefore unsustainable.
Need a balance between playing fast and slow to have an executable and reliable game plan from week to week.

That’s the challenge for our next Coach.

 

[Everybody Panic]

It's very clear peoples displeasure (mine included) are aimed at his output for the money he's on. When you're not performing to expected standard vs. your remuneration, you're going to cop heat.

Max Lynch must play-out this year as No.1 banana in the centre, with Brodie starting at CHF/FF.

What more would you expect of him? He kicked a goal, assisted in at least 2 directly I can remember (Sidebottom and Ginnivans). Laid 6 tackles, won hit outs despite playing against 2 quality rucks most of the game. He also gave us every chance to be well in front in the first quarter with our centre square dominance. How many times did we see Grundy hit it straight to De Goey today who burst away? He is a ruckman, there's not a lot more he could have done unless you wanted him manning up against Scrimshaw and co down back who did what they please. If you're angry at him getting paid to play as one of the best rucks in the league, how would you feel watching him paid that to be an average full forward?

Grundy was worth every cent he got paid today. He just got let down by a dozen or so players having their worst game of the year.

 

[Everybody Panic]

I see a big opportunity for the club in the scenario you suggest.

If Lynch can hold down the spot in the ruck I'm sure Brodie can perform as a CHF to a good standard and greatly improve with time.

The problem will be in convincing Brodie to see this as a step forward in his career, and not a step back. Change is difficult for people but if he invests himself in this it could pay off well.

Why would you pay a dual all Australian Ruckman a million a year to try and be a half forward, and a guy with every chance to never make it as a ruckman? Let's be honest, before his couple of games in the mid year, most were expecting Lynch to be delisted and not seen again in the AFL.

 

[Gone Critical]

I see a big opportunity for the club in the scenario you suggest.

If Lynch can hold down the spot in the ruck I'm sure Brodie can perform as a CHF to a good standard and greatly improve with time.

The problem will be in convincing Brodie to see this as a step forward in his career, and not a step back. Change is difficult for people but if he invests himself in this it could pay off well.

Have to say I think this is very unlikely. Ruckmen kick few goals in the modern game and those that do generally achieve it via drifting into the forward line and finding mismatches.

I think it would be extraordinary for any ruckman , Grundy included, to learn the skills and leading patterns required. Grundy just boxes on running and can do so all day at low speed. He isn’t made to be able to provide the up and down movements of a KPF

He is an elite ruckman who would struggle elaswhere. Ruck is his only go.

 

[mike123]

what are you supposed to do with a team that has such poor skills?

We could do what we did in 2010

 

[Gone Critical]

Ordinary day today. Certainly looked like two bottom 4 sides duking it out. At this stage they are a better team than us and presented better today. Not sure coaching had much to do with the differences.

Good side is our kids are outperforming expectations but it’s a big ask to expect any of them to be other than not players for the next couple of seasons.

We will slowly build up a good list but today’s performance fairly accurately reflects where we sit in the competition currently

 

[Kappa]

I see a big opportunity for the club in the scenario you suggest.

If Lynch can hold down the spot in the ruck I'm sure Brodie can perform as a CHF to a good standard and greatly improve with time.

The problem will be in convincing Brodie to see this as a step forward in his career, and not a step back. Change is difficult for people but if he invests himself in this it could pay off well.

I'm 100% sure Grundy will never ever be even a half decent key forward. He's never been a good contested mark, nor is he smart at leading.

 

[Gone Critical]

We could do what we did in 2010

Nah 2010 was as good a side as has run around for Collingwood since the 1930’s for mine. Certainly 1970 is the only team that was as capable since I have been watching. We are a long way off that currently.

 

[ANewDawn]

I see a big opportunity for the club in the scenario you suggest.

If Lynch can hold down the spot in the ruck I'm sure Brodie can perform as a CHF to a good standard and greatly improve with time.

The problem will be in convincing Brodie to see this as a step forward in his career, and not a step back. Change is difficult for people but if he invests himself in this it could pay off well.

Why do you think Grundy would be a success at full forward? (I am not convinced he would be). Do you think we could play both him and Cameron in the forward line? Seems we would have a lumbering duo in the KPFs, which I just can't see working, but am keen to be convinced otherwise.

 

[mike123]

Why would you pay a dual all Australian Ruckman a million a year to try and be a half forward, and a guy with every chance to never make it as a ruckman? Let's be honest, before his couple of games in the mid year, most were expecting Lynch to be delisted and not seen again in the AFL.

Because forwards are more valuable then rucks so if Grundy starts performing up forward we’re getting better value for money

 

[lyfsux]

What is MM's record against the Hawks?

Hope you're talking about the lollies and not that old fart Maggie

 

[mike123]

Nah 2010 was as good a side as has run around for Collingwood since the 1930’s for mine. Certainly 1970 is the only team that was as capable since I have been watching. We are a long way off that currently.

Of course the quality of that team was much better than what we have today and I’m not expecting what the 2010 team achieved but perhaps we could take a few lessons from that era. The 2010 team wasn’t stacked full of elite kicks but got by with a game plan that catered towards the players we had. Atm we try to play like the three peat Hawks without any elite kicks down back.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

What more would you expect of him? He kicked a goal, assisted in at least 2 directly I can remember (Sidebottom and Ginnivans). Laid 6 tackles, won hit outs despite playing against 2 quality rucks most of the game. He also gave us every chance to be well in front in the first quarter with our centre square dominance. How many times did we see Grundy hit it straight to De Goey today who burst away? He is a ruckman, there's not a lot more he could have done unless you wanted him manning up against Scrimshaw and co down back who did what they please. If you're angry at him getting paid to play as one of the best rucks in the league, how would you feel watching him paid that to be an average full forward?

Grundy was worth every cent he got paid today. He just got let down by a dozen or so players having their worst game of the year.

Grundy was probably 10th-15th in terms of performances on that ground today. Is that consistently acceptable for a guy on monster money?

Astonishing take overall. If you're satisfied with his level of output over the last two seasons, then there is no hope for you.

An experiment as a forward makes sense, because he wont stay at the club on this contract at his current levels of output moving forward.

 

[jathanas]

Why would you pay a dual all Australian Ruckman a million a year to try and be a half forward, and a guy with every chance to never make it as a ruckman? Let's be honest, before his couple of games in the mid year, most were expecting Lynch to be delisted and not seen again in the AFL.

It's fair to say that Lynch changed people's opinions of his ability in that single game. It might have been an outlier, but he deserves an opportunity to prove that it wasn't. If Lynch is able to consistently deliver to that standard playing Grundy further up might give us a tactical advantage.

Have to say I think this is very unlikely. Ruckmen kick few goals in the modern game and those that do generally achieve it via drifting into the forward line and finding mismatches.

I think it would be extraordinary for any ruckman , Grundy included, to learn the skills and leading patterns required. Grundy just boxes on running and can do so all day at low speed. He isn’t made to be able to provide the up and down movements of a KPF

He is an elite ruckman who would struggle elaswhere. Ruck is his only go.

Grundy is statistically elite as a ruckman but that has not translated to a competitive advantage for the team in the last couple of years. We can continue to do the same thing and expect a different result or we can pivot.

We won't know how playing Grundy as a ruck/forward and Lynch as a ruck would work out unless we give it a try. It does mean pushing Cameron out.

Unlike someone like Mumford who is a one-trick pony I believe Grundy is more versatile than we give him credit for. To travel back in time for an analogy I see him as a Starcevich that can ruck (at least in terms of his athletic ability); Grundy is vastly better as a player when the ball hits the ground and can run all day.

Regarding learning leading patterns, I think again we might be underestimating his ability. Mihocek played as a defender most of his career. Seems to have picked up OK.

Kappa ANewDawn please see this as a response to your posts too.

 

[daicosdemis]

It’s true. Everybody lambasted Buckley for playing ‘defensive’, what are you supposed to do with a team that has such poor skills? Kick yourself to death?

Harvey better resort to playing more defensive if he wants any chance of becoming coach. The media and peanuts on here don’t have a clue.

Buckley was a protagonist in bringing in players like Adams & Treloar, enough with the Buckley excuses.

 

[Rebuilder]

As expected. Buckley can coach after all.

Wait til we end up with Brad Scott, Bucks will look like a genius.

 

[magpies42]

Buckley was a protagonist in bringing in players like Adams & Treloar, enough with the Buckley excuses.

Yes potentially, he helped bring them whether he scouted them is another story. Still don’t think anybody could have coached the list any better with everything he had to endure.