Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[Blue_Fusion]

It's interesting that some are concerned about whether Clarkson will still have the 'fire in the belly' or the drive to give it his all ... yet Lyon had doubts about whether he wanted to coach again, ever, until his chat with Matthews a few days ago.

Matthews said he was done coaching after Collingwood and was hesitant and apprehensive about joining Brisbane...

 

[katmanblue]

Haven’t had before? Is that what they said about Malthouse and Pagan? That went well also. Again ask freo what they thought of Lyon in the end. Look how quickly their club has turned around since he has left.

You can't put Pagan and Malthouse in the same boat. Different circumstances. Different lists.

 

[katmanblue]

Leppa doesn’t come across as a calm and considered personality, traits that are as high in importance in that role as anything else that is needed imo.

Look at Neil Balme, the quintessential pro in this role. Obviously good at what he does but is as calm and considered when talking as if sitting on the beach in a laidback bean bag sipping pina coladas.

I’d like to be pleasantly surprised but think his prickliness is better suited to coaching.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Balme was an absolute thug on field.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Lyon will be a big mistake and the closest thing to Malthouse v2.0. Not the right fit for this club or playing group.

Respectfully I beg to differ. I actually think Lyon, more so than Clarko, understands how to manage all the “background influences” (by that I mean the board, members, ex players, sponsors, media etc) which exist at football clubs and are probably most prevalent at Carlton. I know this shouldn’t be the first consideration when choosing a coach (which should always be that he can in fact coach well - which he can) but at Carlton these background influences have always been factors stretching through our history even as far back as when Harris head hunted Barassi. I’ve always felt Lyon would be the most Carlton-like person to coach us since Parkin, who is the only person in the last 30 years to have a longer than 5 year stint as head coach. Pagan and Malthouse were successful before they came to Carlton but they weren’t willing to entertain this game with these background influences and I also think Clarko is in that same boat. All brilliant coaches in their own right but not suited to Carlton. Young first time coaches just get chewed up and spat out by this factor as most don’t know how to deal with it. As I said this is uniquely Carlton and probably why we haven’t had much success in the modern era. This may sound like BS to a lot and that’s fine but it’s my take on the club I’ve supported and who’s history I’ve studied for 40 plus years.

 

[charred_fate]

Matthews said he was done coaching after Collingwood and was hesitant and apprehensive about joining Brisbane...

That's cool and perhaps the same fate awaits Carlton, if Lyon ends up joining, but it makes the comparison an irrelevant one.

 

[Wickzki]

Leppa doesn’t come across as a calm and considered personality, traits that are as high in importance in that role as anything else that is needed imo.

Look at Neil Balme, the quintessential pro in this role. Obviously good at what he does but is as calm and considered when talking as if sitting on the beach in a laidback bean bag sipping pina coladas.

I’d like to be pleasantly surprised but think his prickliness is better suited to coaching.

You're kidding aren't you?

We talking about the same Neil Balme here?

Ask the real old timers what they thought of Balme as a player. Ask them about the way he carried himself.

Ask them how he portrayed and carried himself as a coach.

The Neil Balme that we know and revere today was not the same Balme that he once was.

 

[Bokan]

Anyone else so traumatised by carlton over the years that they just can't get over the fear that no matter who we bring in it won't work?

On CPH1877 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Beyond Blue]

Did Samo do anything to increase his fitness/tank to be able to play in the midfield in the time he's been at the club? You want it you have to put in the hard yards to get it.

I’m just quoting what Betts said. I tend to agree with what your saying.

 

[PoultryinMotion]

There was a stat on the weekend saying we are 18th for defending ball movement. That's Champion Data speak for "We're easy to play against"
As much as I like Teague and wanted him to succeed that's just a damning stat.

Thats what concerns me about the Teague box. I don’t feel we have been able to win winnable games as we are one dimensional and when the opposition adjusts we don’t “pivot”( the latest wanky word I’ve noticed). I was at the game vs Power and could see on Power player’s faces we had them where we wanted them but then it was likeHinkley tweaked things and we had no strategic response to that. Strong opponent, interstate game, key players out etc etc but we don’t change gears in games well enough and the coach has to wear that unfortunately. Clarkson is the master in this situation. Had Hawks well drilled for all situations and was “nimble” (another wanky word) in the coach’s box.

 

[dropbear101]

Alright i have ventured over here to give my two cents on ross lyon. short answer proceed with caution but If I were you I wouldn't be upset if he was appointed.

pros:
- easily the most tactically astute coach i have ever seen. will win 2-3 games a year on that alone.
- his teams always apply effort
- its hilarious the long running gags he has with the media (basically he just mocks them, they happily took pot shots back).
- great at cultivating relationships with star players. they love him.
- will get the best out of a list.
- when he likes a player, he will get the best out of a player.
- when he first arrived at freo he reinvigorated many players crowley, walters even pavlich and the club.
- gave us real direction when he first arrived.

cons:
- literally doesn't care about bad players. this results in his 'non favourites' becoming a little disassociated/upset/disinvested with the club. which is silly as developing 40+ players yields a higher mathematical success than 35 players.
- he burns out the staff and assistant coaches at a club.
- he burns out the fans after a while
- vic media love him but he legit started a covert war with the WA media. this was all set up by the first press conference in WA where the first question was "do you believe you've stabbed mark harvey in the back". after a while he locked them out of the club, mocked them. turns out its advantageous to have the media on your side. because i reckon he keeps his job at freo otherwise.
- the female staffer story where he was drunk and said something about budding boobs stains his reputation. however, given that adam simpson is thought of as an angel today despite being involved in a more disturbing thing during his playing days, look up north melbourne and boris the chicken its messed up, as well as wayne carey in the media, I think carlton will be fine.
- to smart for his own good

In other words he has good traits but if kept on too long he gets into fights with admin, staff and the poorer players on the list may crack the shits which hurt your culture long term. also players get burnt out.

 

[Bryce Bubbles]

Betts said in a year when Samo really wanted to cement his spot in the team, Samo’s become frustrated being moved around the ground, starting the year in defence, then moved to the middle a bit and finally pushed forward before being out of the team.

I don't remember him being played this year up front? Also had plenty of time to cement himself. Not good enough at this stage.

 

[charred_fate]

Anyone else so traumatised by carlton over the years that they just can't get over the fear that no matter who we bring in it won't work?

On CPH1877 using BigFooty.com mobile app

One of the reasons I am keen on Clarkson is that if it doesn't work, we know we're seriously f'd for other reasons ... Can't lose ... sort of.

 

[Bryce Bubbles]

Balme was an absolute thug on field.

Who told you to put the blame on?

 

[Juddrockz]

I’m just quoting what Betts said. I tend to agree with what your saying.

I wasn't having a go at you,i was just stating he hasnt done himself any favours.

 

[Blue Runnings]

It's not all on the coach, but a substantial part is on the coach.
We should have had a better HoF than Lloyd. We should have kept SOS to drive the direction of the list.

But Teague is not in any way blameless.
He argued to keep the same assistants last year. His management of the younger players has been appalling. A stronger Head of Football would have stopped him from over-ruling Russell on selection, but Teague can't be blaming the Club for not stopping him doing what he wanted to do.

Agree Teague has his faults as any coach does. But how can he develop that without being setup for success and having the right support. From day 1 he was dead man walking.

Let’s have a look at his footy department.

Liddle is under qualified and from all reports a snake (don’t let the 80k members fool you 50% of those are free)

Llyod also under qualified. Was an ok list manager

Judd what value / qualifications did he he bring. He just walks out cos it got all too hard. Just cared about his reputation.

Barker, was interim coach, went for the same job as Teague then they kept him as his senior assistant. Footy department put him in charge of midfield and stoppages. That was a success

The other assistants, what experience have they had ?

Who is the experienced head next to Teague in the box? That’s right review get announced they better get someone … Mr John “zoom” worsfold

The media wants coaches sacked … gives them something to write about. With all the crap the media has given Teague, our club has never come out strong to defend him. What impact does that have on the playing group let alone mentality to do his job.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I don't remember him being played this year up front? Also had plenty of time to cement himself. Not good enough at this stage.

Spent time at half forward against the Crows, Geelong, Collingwood and Norfs.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

The list is fine, injury plagued.

Coaching has problems, but I don't know that they are fatal.

I have seen this club try and buy a premiership too many times to think that sh*t works any more and am sick of hearing about the next saviour.

We just need Judd or Malthouse or Cripps or Charlie to get it right.

We need a ******* team, working together, with an admin who backs them and stops jumping at ******* shadows.

I hate losing, but I hate losing knowing that the chicken littles are going to start asking for their next sacrifice and their next saviour even more.

Geelong took time, Hawthorn took time, Richmond took time.

Its not hard to figure out

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Love your work mate, couldn’t have said this better myself.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

That's cool and perhaps the same fate awaits Carlton, if Lyon ends up joining, but it makes the comparison an irrelevant one.

It's relevant in the sense that it shows that just because someone thinks their time is up as a coach, it may in fact not be...

 

[Stamos]

Agree Teague has his faults as any coach does. But how can he develop that without being setup for success and having the right support. From day 1 he was dead man walking.

Let’s have a look at his footy department.

Liddle is under qualified and from all reports a snake (don’t let the 80k members fool you 50% of those are free)

Llyod also under qualified. Was an ok list manager

Judd what value / qualifications did he he bring. He just walks out cos it got all too hard. Just cared about his reputation.

Barker, was interim coach, went for the same job as Teague then they kept him as his senior assistant. Footy department put him in charge of midfield and stoppages. That was a success

The other assistants, what experience have they had ?

Who is the experienced head next to Teague in the box? That’s right review get announced they better get someone … Mr John “zoom” worsfold

The media wants coaches sacked … gives them something to write about. With all the crap the media has given Teague, our club has never come out strong to defend him. What impact does that have on the playing group let alone mentality to do his job.

Those points are all valid except that it was Teague's choice not to bring in any new assistants last year.
Again, he can't really blame the Club for not over-ruling him.

 

[charred_fate]

It's relevant in the sense that it shows that just because someone thinks their time is up as a coach, it may in fact not be...

Depends on the angle you come from.. I find it irrelevant in the sense that it's not a worthwhile discussion as it proves nothing one or the other in a Clarkson v Lyon sense, but I like your take on it too.

 

[BARGE ARSE]

Howdy

Long time lurker but never took to posting until now.

I don’t know about being traumatised but I have some apprehension about who we bring in next. Over the last 20 years weve tried the new, to the experienced, to the club icon, to the training wheels, to those who achieved the ultimate success but alas here we are again.

I have a feeling that this time it’s a bit different - the list is quite solid, we are looking to align and unify the recruiting/drafting/player development area’s and the perception is that the board to will accept accountability for results.

These tangibles in addition to gaining either Clarkson or Lyon (inclusive of a relevant game plan) leaves me feeling optimistic (and I’m normally a half glass empty man).

Pull the trigger I say and let’s get it happening.

Anyone else so traumatised by carlton over the years that they just can't get over the fear that no matter who we bring in it won't work?

On CPH1877 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[efektor]

Agree Teague has his faults as any coach does. But how can he develop that without being setup for success and having the right support. From day 1 he was dead man walking.

Let’s have a look at his footy department.

Liddle is under qualified and from all reports a snake (don’t let the 80k members fool you 50% of those are free)

Llyod also under qualified. Was an ok list manager

Judd what value / qualifications did he he bring. He just walks out cos it got all too hard. Just cared about his reputation.

Barker, was interim coach, went for the same job as Teague then they kept him as his senior assistant. Footy department put him in charge of midfield and stoppages. That was a success

The other assistants, what experience have they had ?

Who is the experienced head next to Teague in the box? That’s right review get announced they better get someone … Mr John “zoom” worsfold

The media wants coaches sacked … gives them something to write about. With all the crap the media has given Teague, our club has never come out strong to defend him. What impact does that have on the playing group let alone mentality to do his job.

Wouldn’t exactly call Barker a success as midfield/stoppages coach. We’ve been quite poor in this regard his whole tenure there. From memory he also wasn’t great as a forwards coach in his time there.

 

[Bokan]

One out of left field mate...
Never heard of him... Have you been tracking him long?

Also what are your thoughts on Cripps brother seems to be really stepping it up after coming back from a knee..

Pretty sure luke (?) strnadica was on freos list for a few years a while back, assume it's the same bloke just off the surname

On CPH1877 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[yibbida]

We'll ignore winning 4 premierships in 17 years aswell shall we?
I'm curious to know which current coach you think is better?

In last 5 years? Hardwick by a mile.

Longmire is better than Clarkson.

Clarkson got lucky. Pretty much anyone could have coached those Hawthorn teams and won premierships.

 

[Azzurro]

Those points are all valid except that it was Teague's choice not to bring in any new assistants last year.
Again, he can't really blame the Club for not over-ruling him.

Rubbish, this is the job of the Head of Football. That is, line up better assistants, and line up the head coach to accept them.

You don't just accept what he wants - you do what is needed for the success of the football department. No matter how hard Teague pushed it otherwise, Lloyd should have brought in those assistants.