Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[Metalcrusher]

The players literally have nowhere to go except busting a nut at every training session, every contest on the weekend, every meeting etc etc

The group is still young and will be their third coach for the majority of them, 2 rookie coaches and now what will be a bonafide coaching professional which ever way they go.


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The have had a school teacher, a boys clubber, now they need a mentor, someone that looks them in the eyes and holds them account for their own actions.

 

[THEYSEEMEROLLIN]

I understand completely! I just feel like Ross has more to prove. Will be more hungry for it

It's an interesting point but I'm not sure I subscribe to the extra hunger factor from losing the GF for Ross the Boss. Eg Tom Brady won 6 Superbowls with the Patriots before his 7th at the Buccaneers this year. He was plenty hungry for that 7th. I see him and Clarko as pure competitive beasts, always hungry to succeed. I reckon Clarko will be every bit as hungry for his 5th as Lyon for his first. Either works well for us at the moment in that case.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Voss will leave a plum gig because he grew up a Carlton fan. Same reason Paul Roos wanted the job back in 2019. Same reason Lyon wants the job now. Wouldn’t you also want to coach the blues?




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To be fair (and I know that we all like to over sell the magnitude of our club) if you were involved in taking carlton to a flag you would be very well looked after for future jobs and gratitude? from well heeled benefactors.

 

[Choc Milk]

It's an interesting point but I'm not sure I subscribe to the extra hunger factor from losing the GF for Ross the Boss. Eg Tom Brady won 6 Superbowls with the Patriots before his 7th at the Buccaneers this year. He was plenty hungry for that 7th. I see him and Clarko as pure competitive beasts, always hungry to succeed. I reckon Clarko will be every bit as hungry for his 5th as Lyon for his first. Either works well for us at the moment in that case.

I'd take either of them to be honest i Just feel that lyon will be able to navigate being Carlton coach easier.

 

[JustaBattler]

It's an interesting point but I'm not sure I subscribe to the extra hunger factor from losing the GF for Ross the Boss. Eg Tom Brady won 6 Superbowls with the Patriots before his 7th at the Buccaneers this year. He was plenty hungry for that 7th. I see him and Clarko as pure competitive beasts, always hungry to succeed. I reckon Clarko will be every bit as hungry for his 5th as Lyon for his first. Either works well for us at the moment in that case.

I agree - but tiredness from a perceived or real emotional loss takes time. FWIW I think Clarko is still very much in the picture for Carlton IF he wants it. Still think Lyon is the 'safer' bet all things considered.

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

Massive NO to Robert Harvey. Friends seen him gambling at the TAB way too many times.

What sort of old timey savage is he??.. I mean fancy walking into a TAB when you can bet at home on your phone with an app??!! In all seriousness though whilst I'm not nor ever have been a fan of betting I know a lot of AFL players are & do - I mean they have their punting clubs etc. inclusive of assistant coaches. John Barker had to stop being part of it when he took over as caretaker coach after Malthouse according to Gibbsy at the time. Not my buzz but in my opinion doesn't mean Harvey's no good at coaching because he likes a punt.

 

[2blue4u]

Ross' last year at Freo, the year he got sacked, will probably end up better than our '21 season.

RL19: 9 wins (38% win), 92%, average score of 72 - 78. From 22 games.
DT21: 8 wins (41% win), 89%, average score of 80 - 90. From 21 games.

The average score of our last 3 games against GWS has been a 96 to 50 loss. Factor that in and it becomes:

RL19: 9 wins (36% win), 92%, average score of 72 - 78.
DT21: 8 wins (41% win), 87%, average score of 78 -90.

So 1 less win overall for DT with a margin of 2 goals instead of 1 for Ross.

Comparing years how is this even relevant when obviously there are so many factors that go into that? How about his year of 4 wins? How about players wanting out of the club and leaving because of him? How about the drop in membership numbers? How about the sexual harrassment claims? Should go down well in Carlton respects week. How about the fact he went behind his own managers back and made a deal with Freo while his manager was still working on a contract with Saints? Just bailed on Saints. I mean personally i do not care anymore because Carlton will get what they get and have no faith in this board to make any right decisions regarding the footy side of things.

 

[CJMB]

We've all cherry-picked data from RL's coaching record (hell, I've been cherry-picking his last four years and mostly ignoring the GFs to suit my own ends), but this hardly screams "SACK THE CURRENT COACH AND GET THIS GUY IN", whichever way you look at it.

Percentage difference between the first two samples is negligible, and hardly much better between the next two. And RL is the defensively-minded one of the two, right?

I certainly don't follow Freo closely enough to know if there was much departure from RL's plan in Freo's approach to Round 23 2019. Even if it's fair enough to leave that off RL's coaching record seeing as how he, like, wasn't the coach and all, I'm certainly giving that 43 point loss a bit of side-eye too. Fair enough to have an ordinary response after your coach is sacked though...

I'm just saying for all the comments around he only coaches a boring, dour style of footy it's actually not really as 'bad' as most make out. His Freo H&A averages were 11.6 wins, 99%, average score of 81 to 82. I only did H&A because I couldn't be bothered manually adding finals in, but I'd guess that how close they got might mean the overall numbers are actually a little better.

That's with the 4 good and 4 bad years. For what it's worth, 3 of those bad years were 8, 8 & 9 wins, so when it comes to the crunch 3 of the bad years were equal to where we'll likely finish 2021.

STK H&A: 14.5 wins, 117%, 91.1pf
FRE H&A: 11.6 wins, 99%, 80.6pf
Career H&A: 12.7 wins, 106%, 84.7pf

From where I'm sitting, looking at us, those numbers look pretty good to me.

 

[Gethelred]

It's an inferred crack, just like when Bolton looked straight into the camera and said we all need to stay the course together only to be sacked the next week.

He was looking for public support of his position by the board and by that I mean the Chairman as the senior rep for the club.

The club is between a rock and a hard place unfortunately, if they publicly announce support then sack him a week later they look like dickheads and if they say nothing everyone assumes Teague is gone.

The best they could do is to re affirm they are analysing the results of the review and will make considered decisions when ready.

No one in the footy dept should expect the club to come out with public support when decisions re the review have yet to be made (at least publicly).

I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all. You can certainly have someone - Sayers, Liddle - come out and give a statement to the effect of ths:

"We appreciate everything David has given this football club, and we would ask the media to cease their speculation in the interests of doing what is best for Carlton and for David. Some of the speculation - about his position, his job, his person - is consummately unfair, and ultimately degrades those who write it and those who read it.

We ask for patience, and we will be forthcoming at the conclusion of the season when we announce the outcome of our review into our football department."

If they insist on continuing to ask the same questions - "Will you confirm that David Teague has been sacked?" "Is David Teague's job safe?" - you can then go on the attack:

"I am surprised that you would continue to press me in the interests of seeing if you can obtain David's job. He's a better person than that, and I thought you were too."

Turn it around on them. The public don't like AFL media either; they would me more than willing for the club to turn the spotlight back on those doing the questioning. Make them consider their words and the ramifications for continuing to press, and they'll stop pressing.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all. You can certainly have someone - Sayers, Liddle - come out and give a statement to the effect of ths:

"We appreciate everything David has given this football club, and we would ask the media to cease their speculation in the interests of doing what is best for Carlton and for David. Some of the speculation - about his position, his job, his person - is consummately unfair, and ultimately degrades those who write it and those who read it.

We ask for patience, and we will be forthcoming at the conclusion of the season when we announce the outcome of our review into our football department."

If they insist on continuing to ask the same questions - "Will you confirm that David Teague has been sacked?" "Is David Teague's job safe?" - you can then go on the attack:

"I am surprised that you would continue to press me in the interests of seeing if you can obtain David's job. He's a better person than that, and I thought you were too."

Turn it around on them. The public don't like AFL media either; they would me more than willing for the club to turn the spotlight back on those doing the questioning. Make them consider their words and the ramifications for continuing to press, and they'll stop pressing.

How often do clubs proactively come out on the front foot to tell the media to stop speculating? It really doesn't happen.

If anybody at the club has been asked about the situation, they refer to the review and the fact it isn't a coaching review alone, but a whole football department review. They really can't do more than that. They can't say Teague is in trouble, can't say he is safe, can't say he is a good coach and they are happy with him. If they came out proactively to have a go at the media over it, then sacked Teague at the end of it all, the media would smash them.

 

[Hands On]

How often do clubs proactively come out on the front foot to tell the media to stop speculating? It really doesn't happen.

If anybody at the club has been asked about the situation, they refer to the review and the fact it isn't a coaching review alone, but a whole football department review. They really can't do more than that. They can't say Teague is in trouble, can't say he is safe, can't say he is a good coach and they are happy with him. If they came out proactively to have a go at the media over it, then sacked Teague at the end of it all, the media would smash them.

I agree, Not much at all has come out from the cub. Media speculation is fuelling it all at the moment.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Hmmm, little bit of Helpless Child there but sometimes that's justified. He's not really wrong anyway.

Not wrong. But the situation seems likes there's no longer a right answer he can make.

 

[KnobHead]

There’s never a right answer with the media.

You say Teague is gone, they’ll say Carlton have taken away from Eddie and Levi’s big week.

You say we’ll respond next week or no comment, they’ll say Carlton isn’t backing Teague and he’s clearly gone.

All of it is a no win situation for the Club and Teague.

Media is on a 24/7 news cycle - they’ll make a story out of whatever the Club says.


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[Arr0w]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all. You can certainly have someone - Sayers, Liddle - come out and give a statement to the effect of ths:

"We appreciate everything David has given this football club, and we would ask the media to cease their speculation in the interests of doing what is best for Carlton and for David. Some of the speculation - about his position, his job, his person - is consummately unfair, and ultimately degrades those who write it and those who read it.

We ask for patience, and we will be forthcoming at the conclusion of the season when we announce the outcome of our review into our football department."

If they insist on continuing to ask the same questions - "Will you confirm that David Teague has been sacked?" "Is David Teague's job safe?" - you can then go on the attack:

"I am surprised that you would continue to press me in the interests of seeing if you can obtain David's job. He's a better person than that, and I thought you were too."

Turn it around on them. The public don't like AFL media either; they would me more than willing for the club to turn the spotlight back on those doing the questioning. Make them consider their words and the ramifications for continuing to press, and they'll stop pressing.

Strip it back

"While we are in the middle of the review, we will not be commenting on any aspect of the review, including any of our people"

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Third-hand knowledge, so happy for people to dismiss this one, as I also can't seem to put it together logically, but just heard from a mate with some weak Tigers connections, that Peggy wants to move Hardwick on, and that Dimma to Blues and Clarko to Richmond is pretty much a done deal.
I thought he was trying to rev me up, but he's confident on what he heard, and I believe from that perspective.
I just can't put it together to see how it makes any sense for Clarko. An ageing Tigers side with the core group on their way out over the next year or two. At best, he'd be hoping to right the ship after this year for another year (two max) and then be back where he was with the Hawks, without the emotional investment.
From this year's list they have Houli, Edwards, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Astbury, Martin and Grimes who are all 30+. Lambert and Pickett who will both be 30 at the start of next season. Then Prestia, Caddy, Lynch, Broad, McIntosh, Vlastuin and Nankervis in the 27-28 bracket.
There is zero chance that Richmond is a more attractive proposition for Clarko than the Blues.
Hardwick, however, is an interesting prospect for a potential coaching name to be thrown out there.

So, there you have it. I'm sh*tcanning my own rumour, but thought it was still worth putting out there as a possibility, however small, and a discussion point.
Have at it... (just don't shoot the messenger)

 

[Gointocarlton]

Strip it back

"While we are in the middle of the review, we will not be commenting on any aspect of the review, including any of our people"

Or
“The whole football department is part of this review and we look forward to the process. However, we are not going to provide ongoing commentary around individuals." Liddle in The Australian on 26 June 2021

 

[slashin_velvet]

Third-hand knowledge, so happy for people to dismiss this one, as I also can't seem to put it together logically, but just heard from a mate with some weak Tigers connections, that Peggy wants to move Hardwick on, and that Dimma to Blues and Clarko to Richmond is pretty much a done deal.
I thought he was trying to rev me up, but he's confident on what he heard, and I believe from that perspective.
I just can't put it together to see how it makes any sense for Clarko. An ageing Tigers side with the core group on their way out over the next year or two. At best, he'd be hoping to right the ship after this year for another year (two max) and then be back where he was with the Hawks, without the emotional investment.
From this year's list they have Houli, Edwards, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Astbury, Martin and Grimes who are all 30+. Lambert and Pickett who will both be 30 at the start of next season. Then Prestia, Caddy, Lynch, Broad, McIntosh, Vlastuin and Nankervis in the 27-28 bracket.
There is zero chance that Richmond is a more attractive proposition for Clarko than the Blues.
Hardwick, however, is an interesting prospect for a potential coaching name to be thrown out there.

So, there you have it. I'm sh*tcanning my own rumour, but thought it was still worth putting out there as a possibility, however small, and a discussion point.
Have at it... (just don't shoot the messenger)

Houli retired today. Astbury retired recently

 

[ctwenty1]

Third-hand knowledge, so happy for people to dismiss this one, as I also can't seem to put it together logically, but just heard from a mate with some weak Tigers connections, that Peggy wants to move Hardwick on, and that Dimma to Blues and Clarko to Richmond is pretty much a done deal.
I thought he was trying to rev me up, but he's confident on what he heard, and I believe from that perspective.
I just can't put it together to see how it makes any sense for Clarko. An ageing Tigers side with the core group on their way out over the next year or two. At best, he'd be hoping to right the ship after this year for another year (two max) and then be back where he was with the Hawks, without the emotional investment.
From this year's list they have Houli, Edwards, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Astbury, Martin and Grimes who are all 30+. Lambert and Pickett who will both be 30 at the start of next season. Then Prestia, Caddy, Lynch, Broad, McIntosh, Vlastuin and Nankervis in the 27-28 bracket.
There is zero chance that Richmond is a more attractive proposition for Clarko than the Blues.
Hardwick, however, is an interesting prospect for a potential coaching name to be thrown out there.

So, there you have it. I'm sh*tcanning my own rumour, but thought it was still worth putting out there as a possibility, however small, and a discussion point.
Have at it... (just don't shoot the messenger)

I dont think thats the sort of move Peggy wants to make on Hardwick

 

[Hands On]

Third-hand knowledge, so happy for people to dismiss this one, as I also can't seem to put it together logically, but just heard from a mate with some weak Tigers connections, that Peggy wants to move Hardwick on, and that Dimma to Blues and Clarko to Richmond is pretty much a done deal.
I thought he was trying to rev me up, but he's confident on what he heard, and I believe from that perspective.
I just can't put it together to see how it makes any sense for Clarko. An ageing Tigers side with the core group on their way out over the next year or two. At best, he'd be hoping to right the ship after this year for another year (two max) and then be back where he was with the Hawks, without the emotional investment.
From this year's list they have Houli, Edwards, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Astbury, Martin and Grimes who are all 30+. Lambert and Pickett who will both be 30 at the start of next season. Then Prestia, Caddy, Lynch, Broad, McIntosh, Vlastuin and Nankervis in the 27-28 bracket.
There is zero chance that Richmond is a more attractive proposition for Clarko than the Blues.
Hardwick, however, is an interesting prospect for a potential coaching name to be thrown out there.

So, there you have it. I'm sh*tcanning my own rumour, but thought it was still worth putting out there as a possibility, however small, and a discussion point.
Have at it... (just don't shoot the messenger)

Apparently Peggy Lost all respect after Mr, Dimma was caught double dipping.

 

[Accidental genius]

Re: Hardwick rumour
Sounds very strange.

Bit of stretch but Hardwick did call DT apparently so wonder if there something in that.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Houli retired today. Astbury retired recently

Knew about the retirements, but just simplified it by going with the current playing list. Most of them are either gone, or pretty damn close, so it's much of a muchness.
I've put it in the 'not happening' basket, simply because it doesn't seem to make sense from Clarko's point of view. Maybe they've thrown the cheque book at him and he simply thinking 2-3 years, then retire, but that's about the only way it makes sense.
I also can't see why Richmond would want to move Hardwick on so quickly and trade in a 3 time premiership coach for a 4 time premiership coach?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Apparently Peggy Lost all respect after Mr, Dimma was caught double dipping.

Re: Hardwick rumour
Sounds very strange.

Bit of stretch but Hardwick did call DT apparently so wonder if there something in that.

A couple of snippets that I didn't know or hadn't considered. Adds some intrigue to it, but I'm still leaning towards it not happening.

 

[koutaaa]

Third-hand knowledge, so happy for people to dismiss this one, as I also can't seem to put it together logically, but just heard from a mate with some weak Tigers connections, that Peggy wants to move Hardwick on, and that Dimma to Blues and Clarko to Richmond is pretty much a done deal.
I thought he was trying to rev me up, but he's confident on what he heard, and I believe from that perspective.
I just can't put it together to see how it makes any sense for Clarko. An ageing Tigers side with the core group on their way out over the next year or two. At best, he'd be hoping to right the ship after this year for another year (two max) and then be back where he was with the Hawks, without the emotional investment.
From this year's list they have Houli, Edwards, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Astbury, Martin and Grimes who are all 30+. Lambert and Pickett who will both be 30 at the start of next season. Then Prestia, Caddy, Lynch, Broad, McIntosh, Vlastuin and Nankervis in the 27-28 bracket.
There is zero chance that Richmond is a more attractive proposition for Clarko than the Blues.
Hardwick, however, is an interesting prospect for a potential coaching name to be thrown out there.

So, there you have it. I'm sh*tcanning my own rumour, but thought it was still worth putting out there as a possibility, however small, and a discussion point.
Have at it... (just don't shoot the messenger)

Do not want dimma! He looks completely cooked right now, and would be coming for the wrong reasons. This is Malthouse 2.0

 

[Accidental genius]

Do not want dimma! He looks completely cooked right now, and would be coming for the wrong reasons. This is Malthouse 2.0

NOt saying I want him but The game style DT tried to implement may lend itself well to the tigers style?

 

[carlton4lyfe]

Cannot believe those whom have replied above have even given that dimma rumour thought. Absolute