List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[whiskeytown]

I'm not saying Ricciardi will or won't make it, but given he's has 3 scoring shots in 7 games this year, i'd hardly say he's solving anything for us. I'd be surprised if he's on an afl list in 3 years time.

Agree the verdict is out on what sort of forward he will be. Even if it’s only 20-25 goals a year, the 3rd tall to go with Mihocek and Cameron will help our structures

I think he’ll actually end up being a better defender in the long term. Take Madgens spot because he can intercept mark rather than fist it 9 times out of 10 like the latter.

For this reason alone Riccardi is worth taking the punt on imo. Could be another Howe and Mihocek like recruit- who ends up better down the opposite end than what they were recruited for

And for the potential down back... I’d go Riccardi over Weideman if given the choice.

Weideman for mine is a ruck forward... not a proper full forward... and we already have a decent ruck forward in Cameron

 

[BEEG]

I really can't see one of McRae's first moves trading out a club legend who can still offer something in Sidebottom its just not how he operates.

Sidey is very well liked around the club and probably worth more to us with a young list then what he is worth in picks or player trades

 

[jackcass]

If you want totality - go from 2011 when he was list and recruiting manager for Hawethorn.

2011 - He goes and trades for a relatively unknown player at the time named Jack Gunston from Adelaide (WIN)
2012 - He goes and trades for Brian Lake who ends up being a three time premiership player (WIN)
2013 - Ben McEvoy plays in two premierships (WIN)
2014 - O'Rourke - did not work out (LOSS)
2015 - Get Pick 15 in draft for Jed Anderson (WIN)
2016 - Tom Mitchell for Pick 14. Mitchell wins a Brownlow (WIN)
2017 - Jarman Impey from Port for Pick 33 and some swaps (WIN)
2018 - Jack Scrimshaw for a future 3rd rounder (WIN)
2018 - Wingard for Burton and Pick 15 and Pick 35 (LOSS)
2019 - Frost for Pick 50 (WIN) Future fourth rounder for Patton (LOSS)
2020 - Phillips for Pick 65 (WIN)

There were some moves where they moved on older players and were not concerned about the return.

Now lets look at his Top 20 draft selections and /or first selection

2011 - 0 Pick 33 - Brad Hill. (WIN)
2012 - 0 Pick 28 - Tim O'Brien (LOSS)
2013 - 0 Pick 24 - Billy Hartung (LOSS)
2014 - 0 Pick 31 - Daniel Howe (Not sure)
2015 - 1 Pick 19 - Ryan Burton (LOSS)
2016 - 0
2017 - 0 Pick 45 - James Worpel (WIN)
2018 - 0 Pick 52 - Jacob Koschitzke (WIN)
2019 - 1 Pick 13 - Will Day (Not sure)
2020 - 1 Pick 6 - Denver Granger Barrass (Too early)

Drafting wise he never really had a suite of first round selections. So with the selections he had, imo he did pretty well.

So overall i do not understand the lack of respect for the job that GW performed.

The only trading and drafting by GW that matters to me is what he does this year and beyond.

 

[johncitizen]

I really can't see one of McRae's first moves trading out a club legend who can still offer something in Sidebottom its just not how he operates.

Sidey is very well liked around the club and probably worth more to us with a young list then what he is worth in picks or player trades

Sidey would be handy as a deep forward to see out his days.

 

[manicpie]

Sidey would be handy as a deep forward to see out his days.

I think he was tried there a few times this year without luck. Sidey 7 years ago would have been fantastic as that player. He would just be hindering a young players development in that position

 

[Stoods]

I'm not saying Ricciardi will or won't make it, but given he's has 3 scoring shots in 7 games this year, i'd hardly say he's solving anything for us. I'd be surprised if he's on an afl list in 3 years time.

Didnt he play back majority of the time he came into the side?

 

[jonmacTrag]

I really can't see one of McRae's first moves trading out a club legend who can still offer something in Sidebottom its just not how he operates.

Sidey is very well liked around the club and probably worth more to us with a young list then what he is worth in picks or player trades

And he has made it crystal clear that players who aren't producing will be playing in the magoos.

So where does that leave us then?

 

[stormskye]

And he has made it crystal clear that players who aren't producing will be playing in the magoos.

So where does that leave us then?

With a lot of VFL footballers, which we have plenty of

 

[jackcass]

It doesn't come down to return in the end Schu - in the end it comes down to morale.

He has spent most of the season burning the ball, getting caught constantly and looking like a boat anchor at times.

The players all know what a talent he has been and to see him scratching and faffing around trying to win and dispose of the ball with any degree of consistency is surely deflating.

In the end it comes down to people who can provide direct and forceful impacts for the team and in his present state he isn't such a person.

I think you’re projecting your feelings onto a player group. Pretty comfortable the players are fine with him.

 

[Trickster]

I think he was tried there a few times this year without luck. Sidey 7 years ago would have been fantastic as that player. He would just be hindering a young players development in that position

Also thinking along similar lines. IMO with Sidey it just needs to be a business decision. If someone is prepared to pay a late second / early third and take his entire salary, I think we have to do it.

Unfortunate really but we ripped the band aid off last year so I think if it helps with picks and salary cap relief we'd do it.

 

[Jen2310]

NEW PIES COACH WON’T ‘HAVE FAVOURITES’


New Collingwood coach Craig McRae

Craig Mcrae

Age

52

Ht

176cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.9

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.2

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.4

5star

has declared he “won’t have favourites” as the club faces key decisions on several off-contract players.

One of those is big man Mason Cox

18

Mason Cox

Age

35

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

, who well out of favour in 2021 and made just seven AFL appearances over the season.

And while McRae played a key role in Cox’s development during his original stint as an assistant at the Magpies, he was clear that there would be no bias in assessing players’ futures.

“I’m going to be really clear that I’m not going to have favourites,” McRae told The Age.

“I want the best for him but also I want the best for the football club. Mason will be a talking point.”

Cox said last month he was happy to explore his options, whether it be at another club, in more of a ruck role, or both to keep his career going.

“I think Mason (Cox) will land up somewhere else,” Brownlow medallist Gerard Healy said on AFL Nation last week.

“I think he needs to get used to the idea that he’s not going to be on $500,000 or $600,000 (per season), it’s probably going to be more like $200,000 with incentives if he plays.

“But I still think as a second ruckman and a forward, I still think there’s a spot for him.”

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

I really can't see one of McRae's first moves trading out a club legend who can still offer something in Sidebottom its just not how he operates.

Sidey is very well liked around the club and probably worth more to us with a young list then what he is worth in picks or player trades

I also thought we may have "done a Hawthorn", and traded out one of our veterans, and l thought that may have been Sidey.
Looking at our list, and how much inexperience we have on it, guys like Sidey, Pendles, Roughead, Howe etc are going to be pretty important to McRae, to fast track the development of youth in the squad.

 

[manicpie]

I also thought we may have "done a Hawthorn", and traded out one of our veterans, and l thought that may have been Sidey.
Looking at our list, and how much inexperience we have on it, guts like Sidey, Pendles, Roughead, Howe etc are going to be pretty important to McRae, to fast track the development of youth in the squad.

There are whispers around that Elliott might want to go to a club in the flag window, but who knows

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

There are whispers around that Elliott might want to go to a club in the flag window, but who knows

I would be surprised if Elliott went, particularly with McRae now there. l think Jamie may see the light at the end of the tunnel....

 

[BEEG]

There are whispers around that Elliott might want to go to a club in the flag window, but who knows

Very important when he plays up forward it seems DeGoey plays well in the midfield.

Won't get much for him either another worth more to us then what we would get in a trade.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Sidebottom to play as a professional sub?

 

[soreplums]

And he has made it crystal clear that players who aren't producing will be playing in the magoos.

So where does that leave us then?

We play some games with only 18 players

 

[Moore of the Same]

Very important when he plays up forward it seems DeGoey plays well in the midfield.

Won't get much for him either another worth more to us then what we would get in a trade.

Definately want to keep Jamie. He's key to the whole forwardline at the moment. But I think he'd fetch us something decent in a trade if he decided to move.

 

[jonmacTrag]

We play some games with only 18 players

We've played a few of them lately despite the bodies being there.

 

[magpies42]

A player who is "slow" (although Lipinski isn't *that* slow) but also has good quick decision making and good disposal by hand and foot can still facilitate fast ball movement both at the stoppages and on the spread.

Who would you rather - a bloke who runs 10-20m quickly and then either flicks a panicky ill-directed handball or kicks a grubber at the feet / slower loopy ball over the head of the target down the field (or misses them altogether by 10m), or a "slower" player who takes a few steps to steady, makes a good quick decision and delivers the ball by hand or foot to the advantage of their team mate more often than not?

We have a fair bit of the former at the moment and not a lot of the latter, which is why a players like Bianco and even Ruscoe popping up this year and showing that they can at times take the game on a bit with their disposal and deliver the ball well by foot get us a little bit excited.

Genuine speed with good decision making and good skills is actually a fairly rare package in today's AFL, indeed there aren't too many good exponents of disposing the ball by foot especially that I can think of who also have notable speed.

Id much rather go the footballer over the athlete, and I recognise find a mix of both is hard…but it’s necessary.

We are too one paced through the middle Macrae, Poulter, Adam’s, Pendles, Sidey, Sier, Ginivan, Grundy, Bianco, Brown, Daicos…none have a blistering turn of pace. We need some pace to compliment that, perhaps McInnes can be part of that solution. Speed is critical in today’s game.

Not against Lipinski but legitimately how many of the above can we afford to play in the same part of the ground? Happy for him to come if the plan us to bring in more pace through other means.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm not saying Ricciardi will or won't make it, but given he's has 3 scoring shots in 7 games this year, i'd hardly say he's solving anything for us. I'd be surprised if he's on an afl list in 3 years time.

No, you are saying he won’t make it. Don’t sit on the fence… own your opinion

 

[magpies42]

You said we needed skills. He has them.

No I said we needed skills and speed, I didn’t say skills or speed. I’d rather have skills than speed, but we needed both as a slow and a team with poor skills. The other knock I have on him is that he’s not hard at it…in my view you can’t just get by on skills…you have to bring something else, either speed or contest or height…something.

 

[magpies42]

So is Pendlebury, so was Tony Shaw.

My point is, how many can we have in the midfield at the one time. We are pretty slow midfield at the moment. Not for a second disputing that you can be a great footballer without speed.

 

[jonmacTrag]

My point is, how many can we have in the midfield at the one time. We are pretty slow midfield at the moment. Not for a second disputing that you can be a great footballer without speed.

That's a matter for the coach and match committee really - we certainly need speed but that doesn't necessarily always mean foot speed - a quick initial 2 steps clear whilst selecting the best target and good delivery beats a blistering 100 meters and haphazard delivery (Treloar).

 

[HFF]

It would be foolish of McRae to keep Cox when we know it doesn’t work and is tried and tested under the old regime.
Move him on and go and target and bring in proper key forwards.