Dale Tapping as assistant?
Coach Our next coach - Training Wheels included
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It's only embarrassing if you view it the same way you do. You can feel embarrassed if you want to. I feel fine with what we have done. We juggled the big name coach with a selection process at the same time. Extremely difficult to do.
In the end, do we really want the guy who would rather have a holiday?
I'm confident we will get some good assistants around whoever gets the senior gig.
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Voss was a Carlton supporter........something there
Pretty certain he was an Essendon supporter. He was when I played with him at school
ye uncommitted,has been tossed by Hawks,he has no success of late either and seems somewhat stale in viewing him...this also might have been quite a good one to miss....Voss might be the go,true genius champion
Voss seems a very humble leader,he is softly spoken..
Maybe they need a ranter assistant coach to fire them up complimenting Vosses measured approach.......?
Chris Scott would be a good assistant coach
Or bring back Neil Craig !!!!
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There was likely only ever two conversations. One back at the start and one when Cook arrived. It's the daily saturation of media (social and mainstream) that makes it feel like a never ending saga to the public.
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If its Voss so be it, I would like to see assistants who have had premiership experience around him.
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Not really sure thats the case. Id suggest we have shown far more interest in him than he has in us. Continually going back smacks of desperation IMO.
Opine
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Am more disappointed at missing out on RTB, however, when all is in context, Voss may be tailor made for CFC right now. I'm excited at the prospect of Voss taking the reigns; especially if he's accompanied by a gun team of assistants.
Oct 22, 2006
Fevola is using his trip to Ireland with Voss as a recruting drive.
Voss was a childhood Blues fan and wants to stay involved in footy (obvious)
We have plenty of room for him.
- Fev was a fan way back !
Fevola is using his trip to Ireland with Voss as a recruting drive.
Voss was a childhood Blues fan and wants to stay involved in footy (obvious)
We have plenty of room for him.
Opine
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Aligning Voss with a SOS as his LM would certainly avoid possibility of another failed Fev-like foray. It's probably somewhat understandable that a young coach would try to squeeze the most out of a mature list nearing the end of a halcyon era. Parko did a similar yet different thing during his reign.
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The assistants we surround Voss with are the most crucial decisions that will come..
My wish list.
Senior Assistant - Dean Cox
Midfielder coach - Lenny Hayes
Defensive coach - Matthew Scarlett
Fads coach - Stevie Johnson.
My wish list.
Senior Assistant - Dean Cox
Midfielder coach - Lenny Hayes
Defensive coach - Matthew Scarlett
Fads coach - Stevie Johnson.
PattyKwasagun
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Hi all - hope you don't mind the visit. Just been reading a few Voss-related comments in one of your other threads and thought you may appreciate a little background from that time. Apologies for the length of this post in advance.
Voss is often blamed for three major problems - the Fev trade (and the general 2009 off-season of bringing in mature-aged players), the exodus of young players, and the state he left the club in. None of these are fair to pin on him.
1. A quick look at the Lions list from 2009 is pretty grim reading. It was an unusual mix of premiership players in their late 20s/early 30s, a few young guns from the previous two or three drafts, and then a bulk of average early/mid 20s players who we had recruited through the middle/latter stages of the draft around our successful years (Justin Sherman, Matt Austin, Jason Roe, Scott Harding, Sam Sheldon, James Hawksley, Rhan Hooper & Cheynee Stiller all played in our final against you that year, which says it all). In hindsight, there just wasn't a heap of talent on that list. To get us to the finals in 2009 was an extraordinary achievement, and quite clearly was the ceiling of what that group was capable of.
However, some at the club who had grown used to success drastically misread the situation and thought it was the heralding of another premiership run. There was also a sentiment that we should strike while the iron was hot with Brown, Black, and Power specifically still there (a bit similar to the rhetoric about Richmond having a proper crack while Dusty's still there before rebuilding).
It's hard to ascertain exactly what Voss believed concerning this approach, but what is clear is that he wasn't running the show. That was Gubby Allan, who as other posters have suggested has messed up more than one club. Allan had been at the Lions since the beginning with Leigh, so was a much more established & senior figure than Voss at that time. Gubby pulled the strings and made the moves. That's not to suggest Voss was entirely against it at all, but it is common knowledge up here that he was not the ringleader.
All of that aside, that trade period wasn't as bad as is often suggested. The Rischitelli/Bradshaw situation is often spoken about as a clear way that Voss damaged the list, but it was common knowledge that Rischa had planned to move to the Gold Coast the following year and that Bradshaw didn't have much left in him. So entertaining those moves made at least some degree of sense, and was hardly the devastating blow it is sometimes portrayed as. Bringing in Matt Maguire and Brent Staker proved good moves for what we paid - they both went on to play quite a bit of good footy for the club. Amon Buchanan & Xavier Clarke were clearly misfires. As for Fev, I think that was just the hope of trying to turn that list into a premiership team while those stars were still around. Everything fell apart, but this idea that it wasn't going to fall apart without that trade period is just a myth. The list was a mess. That trade period only exposed that as being the situation, rather than creating it.
2. As some others have mentioned, the go-home 5 had little to do with Voss - in fact, 4 of those 5 were quite close to him, and 2 have openly said they would likely have stayed at the club if Voss had been kept on. Their departure was entirely linked to how drastically we had fallen apart off-field, and how toxic our culture was. We had an inexperienced CEO & Chairman, essentially no player welfare department, and as brilliant a man as he is, Jonathan Brown as captain was still running an old macho-style form of leadership that wasn't resonating with many of the younger players at all.
Sure, Voss as the senior coach is ultimately responsible for the culture. But the lack of funding and focus the club had given to these areas was remarkable. Combined with the poor state the list was in, I don't think there is a coach out there who could've done much with where we were. Despite all of that, we did win 10 games in Voss's last two seasons (which, again, when you look at our list, was quite remarkable), and nearly snuck into the finals through the Essendon-assisted 9th spot your lot took in his last year in 2013 (albeit with him already sacked a month or so before that).
Hilariously, the reason the board ultimately sacked him was because our Chairman at the time (Angus Johnston) believed he could get Paul Roos to do a Fitzroy kind of homecoming, when Roos had already committed to Melbourne behind the scenes. There is a story to be written about how incompetently that was handled that many close to the situation know well, and it paints Voss in a much kinder light. Our leadership at the time was Johnston - a deeply unpopular and inexperienced businessman who overstepped his mark a number of times - and Malcolm Holmes as our CEO, who had come direct from rugby & racing in NZ and had no AFL background at all.
We essentially weren't a football club in those days.
The vast majority of players who played under Voss raved about him. He was young, inexperienced, and completely in over his head with no quality support anywhere in the club, but not incompetent in any way. This leads to my next point...
3. It has been a common myth that Voss left the Lions in a state of disaster. In reality, he was doing his best to patch up a sinking ship. The results under Leppitsch in the following seasons prove this. We dropped from 10 wins in 2012 & 2013 to 7 in 2014, 4 in 2015, and 3 in 2016.
Leppitsch is a coach I would not recommend to any club again. He was deeply flawed as a senior coach, and created some pretty enormous cultural problems that led to the horrifying season that was 2016. If there is anything good that Leppitsch did for us, it was that he made the club so bad that the AFL had to intervene and sent Noble & Fagan to us. We will always owe him that. But Leppa's time as senior coach - with more resources, much better leadership and support, and arguably a better list - shows just how good a job Voss actually did in hindsight to create a team as functional as he did.
All in all, Voss did plenty right in his time up here, but ultimately was hampered by his inexperience as well as a club that had grown arrogant & stale from its successes, and as a result, had let its list stagnate horribly and dropped the ball in a very big way in its leadership and culture.
I think you'll find plenty of Lions fans who would be very much open to the idea of Voss returning to coach us again one day, due to the common understanding that he didn't get a fair run at it the first time around. Naturally, I can't really see that happening - but it's a nice romantic idea. If you do get him though, I think plenty of you will be surprised at the quality of man & coach you'll be gaining. For all that he's achieved and all that he is capable, it's remarkable how poorly rated he has become. I hope he gets the chance with Carlton to right that wrong.
Voss is often blamed for three major problems - the Fev trade (and the general 2009 off-season of bringing in mature-aged players), the exodus of young players, and the state he left the club in. None of these are fair to pin on him.
1. A quick look at the Lions list from 2009 is pretty grim reading. It was an unusual mix of premiership players in their late 20s/early 30s, a few young guns from the previous two or three drafts, and then a bulk of average early/mid 20s players who we had recruited through the middle/latter stages of the draft around our successful years (Justin Sherman, Matt Austin, Jason Roe, Scott Harding, Sam Sheldon, James Hawksley, Rhan Hooper & Cheynee Stiller all played in our final against you that year, which says it all). In hindsight, there just wasn't a heap of talent on that list. To get us to the finals in 2009 was an extraordinary achievement, and quite clearly was the ceiling of what that group was capable of.
However, some at the club who had grown used to success drastically misread the situation and thought it was the heralding of another premiership run. There was also a sentiment that we should strike while the iron was hot with Brown, Black, and Power specifically still there (a bit similar to the rhetoric about Richmond having a proper crack while Dusty's still there before rebuilding).
It's hard to ascertain exactly what Voss believed concerning this approach, but what is clear is that he wasn't running the show. That was Gubby Allan, who as other posters have suggested has messed up more than one club. Allan had been at the Lions since the beginning with Leigh, so was a much more established & senior figure than Voss at that time. Gubby pulled the strings and made the moves. That's not to suggest Voss was entirely against it at all, but it is common knowledge up here that he was not the ringleader.
All of that aside, that trade period wasn't as bad as is often suggested. The Rischitelli/Bradshaw situation is often spoken about as a clear way that Voss damaged the list, but it was common knowledge that Rischa had planned to move to the Gold Coast the following year and that Bradshaw didn't have much left in him. So entertaining those moves made at least some degree of sense, and was hardly the devastating blow it is sometimes portrayed as. Bringing in Matt Maguire and Brent Staker proved good moves for what we paid - they both went on to play quite a bit of good footy for the club. Amon Buchanan & Xavier Clarke were clearly misfires. As for Fev, I think that was just the hope of trying to turn that list into a premiership team while those stars were still around. Everything fell apart, but this idea that it wasn't going to fall apart without that trade period is just a myth. The list was a mess. That trade period only exposed that as being the situation, rather than creating it.
2. As some others have mentioned, the go-home 5 had little to do with Voss - in fact, 4 of those 5 were quite close to him, and 2 have openly said they would likely have stayed at the club if Voss had been kept on. Their departure was entirely linked to how drastically we had fallen apart off-field, and how toxic our culture was. We had an inexperienced CEO & Chairman, essentially no player welfare department, and as brilliant a man as he is, Jonathan Brown as captain was still running an old macho-style form of leadership that wasn't resonating with many of the younger players at all.
Sure, Voss as the senior coach is ultimately responsible for the culture. But the lack of funding and focus the club had given to these areas was remarkable. Combined with the poor state the list was in, I don't think there is a coach out there who could've done much with where we were. Despite all of that, we did win 10 games in Voss's last two seasons (which, again, when you look at our list, was quite remarkable), and nearly snuck into the finals through the Essendon-assisted 9th spot your lot took in his last year in 2013 (albeit with him already sacked a month or so before that).
Hilariously, the reason the board ultimately sacked him was because our Chairman at the time (Angus Johnston) believed he could get Paul Roos to do a Fitzroy kind of homecoming, when Roos had already committed to Melbourne behind the scenes. There is a story to be written about how incompetently that was handled that many close to the situation know well, and it paints Voss in a much kinder light. Our leadership at the time was Johnston - a deeply unpopular and inexperienced businessman who overstepped his mark a number of times - and Malcolm Holmes as our CEO, who had come direct from rugby & racing in NZ and had no AFL background at all.
We essentially weren't a football club in those days.
The vast majority of players who played under Voss raved about him. He was young, inexperienced, and completely in over his head with no quality support anywhere in the club, but not incompetent in any way. This leads to my next point...
3. It has been a common myth that Voss left the Lions in a state of disaster. In reality, he was doing his best to patch up a sinking ship. The results under Leppitsch in the following seasons prove this. We dropped from 10 wins in 2012 & 2013 to 7 in 2014, 4 in 2015, and 3 in 2016.
Leppitsch is a coach I would not recommend to any club again. He was deeply flawed as a senior coach, and created some pretty enormous cultural problems that led to the horrifying season that was 2016. If there is anything good that Leppitsch did for us, it was that he made the club so bad that the AFL had to intervene and sent Noble & Fagan to us. We will always owe him that. But Leppa's time as senior coach - with more resources, much better leadership and support, and arguably a better list - shows just how good a job Voss actually did in hindsight to create a team as functional as he did.
All in all, Voss did plenty right in his time up here, but ultimately was hampered by his inexperience as well as a club that had grown arrogant & stale from its successes, and as a result, had let its list stagnate horribly and dropped the ball in a very big way in its leadership and culture.
I think you'll find plenty of Lions fans who would be very much open to the idea of Voss returning to coach us again one day, due to the common understanding that he didn't get a fair run at it the first time around. Naturally, I can't really see that happening - but it's a nice romantic idea. If you do get him though, I think plenty of you will be surprised at the quality of man & coach you'll be gaining. For all that he's achieved and all that he is capable, it's remarkable how poorly rated he has become. I hope he gets the chance with Carlton to right that wrong.
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Bald headed lad left this in suggestion box last night
do a deal with Con and Jon, Clarkos mates that make the vodka
Give a bottle away with ea of the Carlton memberships for 22 (and the freebies)
Clarko gets one of the things he has to do in his year off ticked away and we are a step closer
And when all else fails send the Vodka (and Gin) to the paying members to drown their sorrows
Looks like Voss the Boss will be our coach
Trying to get my head around that, may need a few VBs to get there
do a deal with Con and Jon, Clarkos mates that make the vodka
Give a bottle away with ea of the Carlton memberships for 22 (and the freebies)
Clarko gets one of the things he has to do in his year off ticked away and we are a step closer
And when all else fails send the Vodka (and Gin) to the paying members to drown their sorrows
Looks like Voss the Boss will be our coach
Trying to get my head around that, may need a few VBs to get there
Will make for an interesting round 1 with the Train going to Tigs
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As someone who is not particularly excited at what appears to be the result of our process, that was a good read. There's not many positive posts regarding voss' coaching so nice to hear this from someone that was a bit closer to it at the time.
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We just have to beat them this time round. They may get some benefit with trains knowledge of our team but our new coach should have some fresh ideas that will benefit us also.
Opine
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Thanks very much for sharing this
Metalcrusher
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Interested in switching clubs? We could use a few more posters like you here.
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Goodwin became a much better coach suddenly when he got a crack team around him
FWIW I still would be hoping for Lyon if I were you guys.
but put a gun shop around Voss and that’s got a chance to succeed
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In what way? We will be a different club to what he left, off-field and on-field.
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Thank you for dispelling a few myths about Voss’ time coaching the Lions. A lot of people on here carry on as if he was allowed to rule over the club like Chairman Mao as a 33 year old despite the presence of Matthews on the board and Allan as CEO.
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Overall you have to say that we have been left with slim pickings. I would still go with Choco as I am confident he won't be a total f up, as for the rest - holy cow, we are talking about the future of our football club and we are supposed to be happy to settle for these guys
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Awesome, thanks for the input.
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