Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[The Inbetweener]

Yes but why on earth would the Cats do that?

Twomey indicated Cats were keen on pick 23.

Don’t think 2 x 30s picks for 23 is out of the question if they want to move up.

 

[Mofra]

Who is available and on a small enough contract that is a genuine upgrade on what we have?

Strachan
Max Lynch
Ceglar (with Hawks kicking in most of his salary)
Ladhams (subject to off-field issues)

 

[Golden_6]

What killed us in the centre bounces is what happened all year. Bont not in there Libba playing sweeper role and getting sucked in. If Bont isn't in there we need to have Treloar or Dunkley as the sweeper as they hold position and dont let the opposition out the back.

I still haven't rewatched that third quarter but my vague recollection was that it seemed to be Libba quite often, even including those losses towards the end of the season. The players were probably in the incorrect roles given Libba likes to be under the packs and he seemed to get sucked in, instead of playing the team role as the sweeper.

 

[weltschmerz]

Then find a list spot. Cavarra, Hayes, to name a few.

They’re both rookies so wouldn’t free up main list spots.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

He’s too slow and skills aren’t that flash

Clever, strong overhead mark for his size, accurate kick for goal, quick thinking, opponents need to watch him closely.

 

[Foxman98]

Strachan
Max Lynch
Ceglar (with Hawks kicking in most of his salary)
Ladhams (subject to off-field issues)

Hasn't played
Played 3 games
In and out for his whole career
As you said off field issues and not much exposure as a first ruck

Strachan - Darcy
Lynch - Sweet
Ceglar - Stef
Ladhams - English

No clear upgrades there

 

[footscray1973]

Absolute no.

I've beem watching him closely for a couple of years now.

He has lost all lateral movement and rarely plays more that 3 games in a row.

Not that I'm in any way advocating to even think about O'Meara, but after a horror first year for them, his last 4 years at Hawks he's played 21 of 23, 21 of 22, 12 of 17 and 18 of 22.

Did you mean he rarely plays more than 3 decent games in a row?

 

[ossie_21]

Who is available and on a small enough contract that is a genuine upgrade on what we have?

Its not the glory signing everyone would want, but Ceglar is literally right there for the taking

 

[Foxman98]

Its not the glory signing everyone would want, but Ceglar is literally right there for the taking

Has played more than 15 games once he isn't an improvement on Stef

 

[footscray1973]

Strachan
Max Lynch
Ceglar (with Hawks kicking in most of his salary)
Ladhams (subject to off-field issues)

Strachan just re-signed though. I know that's not necessarily an obstacle, and he did play 2 decent games when O'Brien was out late in the season (one against Goldstein - below).
He is almost exactly the same age as O'Brien, so not sure why he's committed to 2 more years of effectively being second choice, unless they begin to play them both in tandem. Looks a likely prospect as a full-time ruck, is 25, 204cm and could maybe use an extra couple of kgs (currently listed at 95).
Wonder if we even asked the question before he re-signed in early September. (Vic boy too.)

 

[doggy_dog]

Has played more than 15 games once he isn't an improvement on Stef

He isn’t an improvement on the Stef from 2019. In 2022 I know who I’d have more faith in

 

[Mofra]

Hasn't played
Played 3 games
In and out for his whole career
As you said off field issues and not much exposure as a first ruck

Strachan - Darcy
Lynch - Sweet
Ceglar - Stef
Ladhams - English

No clear upgrades there

We took Hamling and Gardner as CHBs who 'haven't played' either. By that ratonale we should draft kids.

Darcy hasn't even played first ruck as a junior, no way he's comparable to Strachan who has been the best SANFL ruckman this year and is a mature body.
Lynch would absolutely play more games if he wasn't stuck behind Grundy. It's the exact player we should be looking for - has performed when asked at AFL or VFL level, and the only reason he is leaving is for opportunity. I would swap the two in a heartbeat.
Ceglar is 'meh' for me but he can actually get on the paddock so is a significant upgrade on Stef.
Ladhams has aggression which is what English lacks. I question English's capacity to become a first ruck and think he's far more suited to the no 2 role.

Our own mids spent most of last year wanting a first ruck to come back ahead of English, Bevo said our ruck division would look "substantially different" next year, and Power said we'd be more active at the trade table this year.

The idea that our ruck division is fine is laughable. Every indication from the club leading up to trade period was that we were going to bolster this area, and we have failed to do so.

 

[Rookie]

Hasn't played
Played 3 games
In and out for his whole career
As you said off field issues and not much exposure as a first ruck

Strachan - Darcy
Lynch - Sweet
Ceglar - Stef
Ladhams - English

No clear upgrades there

Martin is injury prone and old.
Sweet is trusted so little, we took Lewis Young into two finals.
Darcy isn't built like Grundy or Luke Jackson, he won't be rucking at AFL level for years.
English as a first ruck is okay for a game or two, but we have ample evidence that his performances decline if he's asked to do it week in, week out. He seems best suited to a ruck/forward role and is the likely Bruce replacement in our forward line. Why change our entire structure if Martin and Sweet are both unpicked?

Any one of Strachan, Lynch, Ceglar or Ladhams etc would virtually eliminate our ruck depth problem and would ensure English could continue in a ruck/forward role even if we have injuries.

Coughing up a future second round pick to cover our most glaring weakness in a potential premiership year is not a big cost.

 

[Mofra]

Strachan just re-signed though. I know that's not necessarily an obstacle, and he did play 2 decent games when O'Brien was out late in the season (one against Goldstein - below).
He is almost exactly the same age as O'Brien, so not sure why he's committed to 2 more years of effectively being second choice, unless they begin to play them both in tandem. Looks a likely prospect as a full-time ruck, is 25, 204cm and could maybe use an extra couple of kgs (currently listed at 95).
Wonder if we even asked the question before he re-signed in early September. (Vic boy too.)

View attachment 1258385

I was pretty keen on him before he re-signed. The 'stuck behind others needing more opportunity' is the exact way you trade for quality rucks.

Witts
Stef Martin (to Brisbane)
Mumford
Jacobs
O'Brien (before Jacobs left)
Hickey last year

etc etc. The list goes on.
I saw two rucks this year that fit that exact criteria - Strachan and Lynch

 

[Dogs Rule]

Martin is injury prone and old.
Sweet is trusted so little, we took Lewis Young into two finals.
Darcy isn't built like Grundy or Luke Jackson, he won't be rucking at AFL level for years.
English as a first ruck is okay for a game or two, but we have ample evidence that his performances decline if he's asked to do it week in, week out. He seems best suited to a ruck/forward role and is the likely Bruce replacement in our forward line. Why change our entire structure if Martin and Sweet are both unpicked?

Any one of Strachan, Lynch, Ceglar or Ladhams etc would virtually eliminate our ruck depth problem and would ensure English could continue in a ruck/forward role even if we have injuries.

Coughing up a future second round pick to cover our most glaring weakness in a potential premiership year is not a big cost.

It's beyond frustrating, it's negligent. The problem is right there staring us in the face.

Ruckman are playing musical chairs and we're just sitting on the sidelines watching.

 

[Shacf501]

Then find a list spot. Cavarra, Hayes, to name a few.

Agree, Hayes has had his chance and ben, sorry, I know you have had limited opportunity but you are great at vfl level but just not up to afl standard on a regular basis.

But then again they are only filling rookie spots

 

[Rookie]

It's beyond frustrating, it's negligent. The problem is right there staring us in the face.

Ruckman are playing musical chairs and we're just sitting on the sidelines watching.

As much as I love the job Sammy Power has done, I agree we've been negligent when it comes to our ruck division (i argue having KDP/ruck depth is essential when you're challenging for a flag, to avoid situations where you front up with LEWIS YOUNG as your ruckman in critical games).

Maybe rucks don't want to come here?

An outside observer would have expected Minson, Campbell and Trengrove to play more games under Bev than they got. Martin denied our approaches for years. According to RW&B we were into a ruck this year, but it fell through. Even Jordon Sweet was considering his options this year, despite only having an ageing Martin and ruck/forward English as competition.

Are we not pursuing a ruck, or are rucks avoiding us like the plague considering the fate of other ruckmen at our club under Bev?

Bev and Power have both earned our trust - but the ruck situation needs to be fixed.

 

[whyBulldogs]

I feel Stef Martin 1-year re sign is just wrong. His body barely hold anymore, he chews up list spot/salary cap. And for how many games? Why we push. IF ONLY we replace him with a fitter ruck.
Now, Bevo seems not willing to add 4th ruck for a position he doesn't fancy. With him and Sweet staying, I believe the ruck search is over this summer

 

[Bald]

I feel Stef Martin 1-year re sign is just wrong. His body barely hold anymore, he chews up list spot/salary cap. And for how many games? Why we push. IF ONLY we replace him with a fitter ruck.
Now, Bevo seems not willing to add 4th ruck for a position he doesn't fancy. With him and Sweet staying, I believe the ruck search is over this summer

This is the sort of analysis that we need.

 

[Mofra]

I feel Stef Martin 1-year re sign is just wrong. His body barely hold anymore, he chews up list spot/salary cap. And for how many games? Why we push. IF ONLY we replace him with a fitter ruck.
Now, Bevo seems not willing to add 4th ruck for a position he doesn't fancy. With him and Sweet staying, I believe the ruck search is over this summer

I have no problem with Stef moving to the rookie list and acting as a quasi ruck coach. I have little faith he will be a week in, week out ruck proposition though and really think we need at least one more ruck option on our list.

 

[Triple Baileys]

What killed us in the centre bounces is what happened all year. Bont not in there Libba playing sweeper role and getting sucked in. If Bont isn't in there we need to have Treloar or Dunkley as the sweeper as they hold position and dont let the opposition out the back.

yep, there's more to the syndrome than just ruck dominance. We have to learn to recognise the symptoms and not try to get into a fire fight, which how it looked to me. We would set up to try to immediately respond out of the centre. Got to learn when not to do this or when to stop doubling down.

 

[Triple Baileys]

I'm happy with our ruck recruiting. Sweet will be the number 1 ruck and not left to rot in the twos. Martin is the back up ruck who plays in the two's mainly, English is the forward/relief ruck. And let's just hope they don't get injured.

 

[TommyD13]

Technically we could keep both Hayes and Cavarra (not sure we will but wouldn’t put it past us) as we could simply upgrade a few rookies to fulfil our draft allotment.
Could be that we have:
Draft
Darcy
Late Pick
Gardner upgrade
McNeil upgrade
Sweet upgrade

Means we have 38 senior list and 4 rookies (Scott, Roarke, Hayes and Cavarra) plus Khamis as a category B. Includes the re-signings of Wallis, Cordy and Martin.

Likely won’t happen, but it feasibly could if we didn’t want to make too many changes.

 

[Smiley Boy]

Technically we could keep both Hayes and Cavarra (not sure we will but wouldn’t put it past us) as we could simply upgrade a few rookies to fulfil our draft allotment.
Could be that we have:
Draft
Darcy
Late Pick
Gardner upgrade
McNeil upgrade
Sweet upgrade

Means we have 38 senior list and 4 rookies (Scott, Roarke, Hayes and Cavarra) plus Khamis as a category B. Includes the re-signings of Wallis, Cordy and Martin.

Likely won’t happen, but it feasibly could if we didn’t want to make too many changes.

why would we keep Hayes and Cavarra?

 

[Shacf501]

why would we keep Hayes and Cavarra?

Agree, would rather have a crack at a couple more project player young kids.